the AA question (Anesthesiologist Anger)

deepz · Aug 22, 2007

......I've never seen so much all out hatred for another profession. ......
Actually, burnt, the SDN vitriol derives out of their own insecurities. Why? Because, actually, CRNAs are NOT in fact 'another profession.' That is a misconception. Anesthesia is anesthesia the same. MDA or CRNA, no scientific study has ever shown a difference in quality.
Here's a cross-post from comments on the Connecticut Post article:
"I am a retired (this year) anesthesiologist from the US Airforce. I am disgusted by the comments made here both by my colleagues in the private world and those in the military. They are absolutely false.
These negative comments about CRNAs are driven by greedy people who are afraid that they will lose money if CRNAs are proven capable of replacing them. Which, btw, they are.
My arrogant and money hungry colleagues neglect to mention that there is absolutely NO proof behind anything they say, in fact, its the contrary. There have been 4 major studies done 2 old, 2 recent which have shown there is NO difference in mortality rate between Anesthesiologists and CRNAs. My friends who are not in the forces (or plan to leave soon) are more than willing to slander a provider who has proven to be their equivalent.
After being an anesthesiologist for near 40 years and working with CRNAs for that entire time, I can say with absolute confidence that CRNAs provider excellent care on par with their physician counterparts. I remember a time when I was an intern, that Nurses could "NEVER" do 70% of the things they can now do in hospitals. Cries of "they will kill patients", "they will make horrible judgment calls" and "there will be bad outcomes" were made.... until, of course these things were no longer profitable for physicians to do them.
As times change and healthcare evolves it means a greater role for providers such as CRNAs. They have proven their safety regardless of the propaganda you have read here.
I am embarrassed and disgusted by my physician colleagues who have posted here using "fear mongering" to protect their own bank accounts. How far we have fallen from the days of the TV doctor Kildare (which wasent far from reality at the time).
Im sad for my own profession as the Hippocratic oath appears to have been replaced by the "mighty dollar" oath.
K. Crozer MD BG USAF ret."

paindoc · Aug 24, 2007

Ahhh...there are always experts with 40 years of inexperience pontificating on the rectitude of their limited perspective. A person completely dependent on others for 40 years is institutionalized, really no different than what was demonstrated in "Shawshank Redemption", and is incapable of delivering a viable opinion. They can only comment on what lies within their walls. It is only possible to make reasonable comments if 1. you have operated in the private sector....it is ridiculous to chastise physicians in the private sector for making money if your perspective is based on the income of a military physician's pay

2. You have as a physician, actually acquired any significant experience anesthesia. 40 years of having others do your work for you will engender a quite warped sense of perspective...40 years never having to assume responsibility for patient care....of course such a person would feel CRNAs are irreplaceable...to him they are

My comments have nothing to do with whether CRNAs are valuable or not....but they reflect the disgust that I feel when I read military medicine garbage morphed to the rest of the practice models in the country.

core0 · Aug 27, 2007

Ahhh...there are always experts with 40 years of inexperience pontificating on the rectitude of their limited perspective. A person completely dependent on others for 40 years is institutionalized, really no different than what was demonstrated in "Shawshank Redemption", and is incapable of delivering a viable opinion. They can only comment on what lies within their walls. It is only possible to make reasonable comments if 1. you have operated in the private sector....it is ridiculous to chastise physicians in the private sector for making money if your perspective is based on the income of a military physician's pay
2. You have as a physician, actually acquired any significant experience anesthesia. 40 years of having others do your work for you will engender a quite warped sense of perspective...40 years never having to assume responsibility for patient care....of course such a person would feel CRNAs are irreplaceable...to him they are
My comments have nothing to do with whether CRNAs are valuable or not....but they reflect the disgust that I feel when I read military medicine garbage morphed to the rest of the practice models in the country.

Or the fact that there is no evidence that he is an ASA member, never published anything referenced on medline etc. There is actually no evidence that he(she) exists.

GregRN · Aug 29, 2007

Ahhh...there are always experts with 40 years of inexperience pontificating on the rectitude of their limited perspective. A person completely dependent on others for 40 years is institutionalized, really no different than what was demonstrated in "Shawshank Redemption", and is incapable of delivering a viable opinion. They can only comment on what lies within their walls. It is only possible to make reasonable comments if 1. you have operated in the private sector....it is ridiculous to chastise physicians in the private sector for making money if your perspective is based on the income of a military physician's pay
2. You have as a physician, actually acquired any significant experience anesthesia. 40 years of having others do your work for you will engender a quite warped sense of perspective...40 years never having to assume responsibility for patient care....of course such a person would feel CRNAs are irreplaceable...to him they are
My comments have nothing to do with whether CRNAs are valuable or not....but they reflect the disgust that I feel when I read military medicine garbage morphed to the rest of the practice models in the country.

In my supposing that the inverse is also true, I have to ask: on how many years of your personal experience delivering anesthesia in the military are you basing your opinion?

paindoc · Aug 30, 2007

I have had no military experience, nor will I ever. I have employed 2 CRNAs in the past that were military, one was a colonel with years of experience, and the military CRNAs related to me how the military docs are isolated from reality. I also have several anesthesiologist friends in the military, and they confirm the experiences there are not translatable to that of the real world.

GregRN · Aug 30, 2007

I have had no military experience, nor will I ever.

You really should have stopped right here. As you know, "someone told me" really doesn't hold a lot of weight in an evidenced based profession.

Josh L.Ac. · Aug 31, 2007

You really should have stopped right here. As you know, "someone told me" really doesn't hold a lot of weight in an evidenced based profession.

True, although neither does quoting a source that there is no shred of evidence to support that they actually exist, like K. Crozer MD BG USAF Ret.

platon20 · Aug 31, 2007

K Crozer has no record of military service, nor does he have any evidence of ever holding any kind of medical license in any state.

IN other words, he's a ghost conjured up by somebody to start an internet fight.

jwk · Aug 31, 2007

You really should have stopped right here. As you know, "someone told me" really doesn't hold a lot of weight in an evidenced based profession.

And many of us are still waiting for evidence that "K. Crozer MD BG USAF ret" actually exists. If he does, he's sure hard to find.

deepz · Aug 31, 2007

Funny how many voices are raised against the individual who stands up to say the Emperor has no clothes.

Are there any NURSES left on this ALL NURSES BB??

d

Burnt2 · Aug 31, 2007

No, just anesthesiologists lurking and waiting