Collin College ADN Program

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Feb 22, 2010

I am a chunk as well. Whether I try or not, I hover in the dreaded "O" zone.

Life is Good · Mar 13, 2010

I too applied to the Collin ADN RN program with a GPA of 3.8, 5 out of 6 on my PSB, and essentially 15/16 points... I just got my letter today, and I was wait listed. I'm disappointed. I am applying to Grayson also (their deadline is March 31st), and I will call the Collin Nursing office after Spring Break to see how far down on the waiting list I am. Who knows, maybe some will drop and I will still be able to start in the Fall. It's good to hear good things about all programs. I just really want to be an RN!

MedSurger · Mar 16, 2010

I received my acceptance letter on Saturday :)

I had 15 out of 16 points, live in Collin County, maxed my PSB. The three most critical things when applying to Collin.

I look forward to being in the program. I have heard the stories of hard times, crying, and endless studying; however, I am mentally preparing myself. Nursing is no easy task and I look forward to facing these challenges head on. I remain humbled in my admittance to such a program with a pristine reputation.

I am so excited about starting such an incredible journey. It will be tough, but I'm ready!!

:)

allnurses Guide · Mar 18, 2010

I too applied to the Collin ADN RN program with a GPA of 3.8, 5 out of 6 on my PSB, and essentially 15/16 points... I just got my letter today, and I was wait listed. I'm disappointed. I am applying to Grayson also (their deadline is March 31st), and I will call the Collin Nursing office after Spring Break to see how far down on the waiting list I am. Who knows, maybe some will drop and I will still be able to start in the Fall. It's good to hear good things about all programs. I just really want to be an RN!

Already having a degree puts others ahead, so this may be why you were wait-listed...maxing out the PSB is pretty important too. Talk to the college - they will tell you where you are on the list and why you weren't accepted. More than five wait-listers got in this past January.

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Mar 18, 2010

I received my acceptance letter on Saturday :)
I had 15 out of 16 points, live in Collin County, maxed my PSB. The three most critical things when applying to Collin.
I look forward to being in the program. I have heard the stories of hard times, crying, and endless studying; however, I am mentally preparing myself. Nursing is no easy task and I look forward to facing these challenges head on. I remain humbled in my admittance to such a program with a pristine reputation.
I am so excited about starting such an incredible journey. It will be tough, but I'm ready!!
:)

You sound wonderfully qualified, and I am personally and professionally excited to know that someone with your kind of assets, plus the evident passion, will be a nurse.

However, your comment about Collin College's "pristine" reputation is naive. When it was Collin County Community College, under the same director, the nursing school was on probation because it did not meet the basic standards required by the NLN. They cleaned up their act and they are now accredited with no conditions except a somewhat sooner reinspection, but pristine, sorry, no.

The students who do well there keep their "eye on the prize." No matter what happens, keep looking ahead at that ADN that will let you become an RN. Stay out of the line of fire. If someone in your class seems to be one of the students your instructors or the director do not like, stay away from him or her. Offering to help will put you in the same category as they are. If you are computer savvy, do not take your notes on computer, even though you can do that much better than writing your notes by hand. Especially do not share your notes with your classmates. I made a yahoo group so anyone in the class could just go there and get the notes. It helped when people missed a class (children do get sick!), and my notes are typically very good (I have a scholastic record like yours, plus, by the time I enrolled in nursing school, a bachelor's and a master's, with some pretty decent credentials). My classmates enjoyed every note I ever took. The instructors and the director saw this as some kind of cheating.

I would hope that some day the calibre of that nursing school would meet your idealized view of them. And maybe they will. But what I observed (and I have the credential, license and experience to be qualified to make this observation and draw the clinical conclusion), was that it was a system with some fairly strong personality disorders in control, where helping students outside of class was "bad" (one instructor was censured because she helped her class prepare for an exam), and where students were favored or not based on the view of the disordered personalities.

You can become a good nurse in that program. Many did. One girl who sat behind me finished her masters in nursing last spring, got her certification as a nurse practitioner and is now my personal PCP. (Talk about cool, huh?) I know many left our class (about half) and either finished elsewhere (I did, got a 4.0 across the board at Excelsior College--check out that school's credentials), or dropped out of nursing altogether, which was a shame.

Oh--and they won't tell you this, but in Texas you can sit for the LPN exam after your first year in the RN program. LPN's make more than non nurses, plus you wind up getting paid for getting experience (LPN's do everything RN's do except start IV's--unless they get training and a certification--and admissions, although some do the admission for the RN and the RN just signs off on it). You will do that much better in your skills courses, and your clinicals will be a walk in the park. Plus, you will have much stronger options for a job once you graduate.

I would have done that had I known about it, and the outcome once I finished my RN would probably have been different. Clinicals allow you to kind of do a "working interview" and when they see what an asset you are, you get offered all kinds of jobs. If your program (as mine did) allow you to get your clinical skills wherever you can or want to, and the school is interested only in knowing that you can do what you are supposed to be able to do and safely (which is what any nursing school is charged with doing), then you have a clinical final exam--ours was a 3 day final and lemme tell you, you finish that and it's like Marine Corps boot camp, you know you can do anything! But while that meets the narrow goal of making you a safe nurse, it doesn't open the doors for you that land you a job. Then you are in competition with those nurses who did the full formal (that's the key word, really) clinical, and you will only get what no one else wants. It still works out, but the first year of nursing is challenging enough without the added stress. But I digress.

I wish you luck, lots and lots of it. I know you will be a fantastic RN, and I hope you will continue your education and become an advanced practice nurse. That is the way medicine is going, and it should be.

Wherever you go, whatever school you do, remember that there is a reason why everyone jokes about nursing instructors eating their young (I really thought it was just our school, but in recent years, it's a sad widespread phenomenon). You will survive! Many do! Whatever you do, don't give up, don't quit, find someone to talk to, a supportive ear. Whatever it takes to keep you on the path. You'll succeed! I'm certain of it.

(And I am a pretty decent listener--you can email me any time from this site, and we can email or whatever. I currently moderate a yahoo group for my alma mater, Excelsior College, and there are 2700 on there. Most very quiet, but a lot who email and phone me, we get it done, they stay in, they calm down, take it a step at a time, and finish successfully. It take support to do what you are doing.)

OK, enough rambling. I hope I have been helpful, and that in the future when things are kinda hitting the fan, you'll benefit from these words and those of others who all want you to succeed!

Christine

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Mar 18, 2010

I too applied to the Collin ADN RN program with a GPA of 3.8, 5 out of 6 on my PSB, and essentially 15/16 points... I just got my letter today, and I was wait listed. I'm disappointed. I am applying to Grayson also (their deadline is March 31st), and I will call the Collin Nursing office after Spring Break to see how far down on the waiting list I am. Who knows, maybe some will drop and I will still be able to start in the Fall. It's good to hear good things about all programs. I just really want to be an RN!

Grayson is an excellent school! I have seen their students in clinicals and worked with their graduates, and without exception have found them to be excellent.

I have only had minimal contact with their instructors, but what I have observed of their interactions with their students, you could see that there was a caring supportive relationship there. I was fortunate (at Collin) to have had very good clinical instructors in all but one semester. OK, that means I had good ones in two semesters, lol. But having kept up with some of my classmates, there were some really interesting ones there (trying to be nice here). I can tell you that on one rotation, the patient in the bed next to my assigned patient was in agonal pain (she was dying). She moaned constantly and was unable to contact her nurse. I spoke to my instructor, she told me that was none of my business. (If you look at your Nurse Practice Act, it is not only your business, but if, God forbid, something happens to a neglected patient and you were identified as having known about it and not doing anything to help, you are just as culpable as the charming individual who was directly responsible for that patient.)

Anyway, Grayson has an excellent reputation, their students speak highly of the instructors and the program, and they have a good pass rate for the NCLEX. It is worth the drive.

Again, loads of good luck to you!

Come to think of it, I have a bunch of new (as in never owned by anyone, not sure when published, but certainly within the last five or so years) nursing school text books. If you'll email me the title of the one you will use for your first semester, I'll check and see if I have that one, and if so, it is yours. I actually rescued them from the garbage at Baylor SON. (Cannot stand to see waste.)

Christine

heelinghand2 · Mar 26, 2010

Congrats!!! Good luck in your Journey!!! :yeah:

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Apr 19, 2010

Just so no one wonders (then I'll go to PM or email), he is considered NED (no evidence of disease) although his last PET showed "something" in the mediastinum. Medicare won't cover another PET for at least three months, an no more than 3 in any calendar year, even for cause, so I am praying particularly fervently until March 9 when he goes again.
He feels good, he's a wee bit anemic but otherwise blood counts are good. He is now losing weight, because he wants to.
It's all good.
Christine

OT from the OP but since there are those few who do care, the last PET was absolutely clear, so the "little something" was just one of those things. OR, it may have been something to be concerned about but like the primary lung tumor, which GOD and Brian's immune system eradicated very effectively since it was never seen at all (we know it was lung because of the cell structure of the metastatic tumor and the fact that MD Anderson in Houston said so), that "something" was also done away with by divine intervention in combo with the miracle that is the human body.

Gregorach · Apr 20, 2010

hi there lgrotjan, as well as any others with collin college aspirations,

my name is gregory and i work in our hospital lab at collin college. i'm by no means an official representative of the college, nor of the program, but please feel free to stop by and chat if you have any questions about the realities of our program. room #e316, its in the north wing of the school, opposite end from the elevators (also opposite end of the school from the nursing department, which you're probably familiar with if you took the psb at the central park campus in mckinney).

as stated, i work in the lab, as a lab tech/assistant, mentoring lower-level students and occasionally peers on the 10 core nursing skills required to get your adn from collin college. i am finishing up my second semester in a matter of weeks. it is a very challenging program, but one that has rewards. there are a variety of reasons we succeed in the collin program, but none of them are because it's easy, and nobody is going to be easy on you. well, i will be, but i'm there to cement your core nursing skills, and give you a nudge in the right direction when you need one. we have very high standards and will not sacrifice them, in the interest of our future patients, our alumni, our program, or our professors.

if you stop by you'll see that i'm far from sexy, blonde, young, extremely thin, or in any way resemble the protypical rn candidate/graduate. let me quote the aforementioned poster:

"the director is a frightening little woman who will make your life hell if you aren't young and blond and preferably extremely thin. i have yet to meet anyone who likes her."

well, we're all entitled to our opinions, aren't we? i find the administrators and in particular our director to be very sincere, pleasant, forthright and honest. the program is demanding, and unyielding in it's expectation of excellence. the program is founded on personal accountability, from the mandatory attendance requirement to the expectation that, like many other college classes, you know your material. attend lecture and pay attention. read the assigned material. there will be some overlap, yet neither alone is comprehensive. in my higher education experience, that has been consistent in every institution of quality education i've attended.

please don't let the unprofessionalism of any pior students put you off. collin is an excellent program. we are in excellent company. any of the schools in the north dallas area will give you a quality education, i'm sure. here are some of our results, as we are taught to practice evidence based nursing, founded on evidence-based research:

diploma programs - collin county community college

2009 97.22% (70/72)

2008 93.65% (59/63)

2007 98.28% (57/58)

2006 97.73% (43/44)

2005 85.42% (41/48)

this data is taken from the texas board of nursing:

http://www.bne.state.tx.us/nursingeducation/edudocs/rn-5yr-passrate.pdf

let's compare our track records:

excelsior college adn program, taken from:

http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/nurse/nurseprogs-nclexrn2003-07.htm

school name excelsior college

2007 85.4% - 1270/1487

2006 89.1% - 1424/1599

2005 90.3% - 1405/1556

2004 89.0% - 1184/1331

2003 89.9% - 1230/1368

ouch, in 2005 collin had a low showing like some online institutions. *tsk tsk*

the percentage is the 1st-time pass rate on the nclex. what these tables don't show is how many are accepted and how many complete the program. collin college, last sept., was given a grant for being 3rd in a state with excellent schools, and that ranking was based on 1st-time pass of the nclex as well as retention. if we let any old chump in, we could have a high pass rate after separating the wheat from the chaff. we don't take chaff, only wheat.

if you're wait-listed, that does not mean you're chaff. it means we have a nursing shortage because we have a nursing instructor shortage as well. the good new is, the state has mandated a significant increase in the number of acceptees in the *cough* accredited *cough* programs. collin accepts 48 each semester, but will soon be accepting 58. very soon. due to lack of quality classroom, skills, and clinical instructors, many schools and many states have to choose between quality and quantity.

rest assured you'll be getting both when you attend collin. quality instruction for a larger group of nursing students than i saw when i lived in both atlanta and baltimore. we've also been invited to apply as a national league for nursing center for excellence in nursing education, which i am certain will follow in the immediate future. can the previous basher's alma mater claim the same? well? (insert excuses here)

now, does that evidence really sound like the trash that the previous profuse poster was spouting? i'll make diligent inquiries into whether or not the program was on probation or almost lost it's accreditation. according to the nln, here's our status (that pesky evidence-based thing again, oh my!):

accreditation status:

year of initial accreditation: october 1993

continuing accreditation:

last evaluation visit: october 2006

most recent action: july 2009

next evaluation visit: fall 2014

taken from: http://www.nlnac.org/forms/directorysearch.asp

huh, oddly, we're up for review/evaluation, a standardly recurring event, in 2014, the same year the state legislature decides whether or not to continue reciprocal licensure for rns from other states that grant licenses to grads from programs that aren't up to the local snuff, such as online schools. i'd love to see some online nursing school grads try to pass skills scenarios in our hospital lab under the scrutiny of our challenging, yet fair and evidence-based instructors/assessors.

i'll try to wrap this up so i can keep it professional and positive (as professional forums should be), a courtesy lost on a prior commentator.

i chose collin over some big-name schools, including hopkins, u of maryland, baylor and twu. i have the academic record to get in. i had acceptance into a presitgious bachelor's to master's bridge nursing program contingent upon my performance upon the gre, but didn't want to get shot in baltimore so moved back home. local hiring managers/directors told me to consider collin based on their highly positive impressions of, and feedback from their staff relating to, collin alumni. why collect bachelor's degrees? collin provides an awesome foundation for a great nursing practice, then i can have a hospital pay for my msn bridge, my np, and whatever else i want to do in my career.

you're lucky in that you have an awesome selection to choose from in the north dallas area for nursing schools. my mother went to brookhaven, el centro (yeah, we weren't easy to raise), and got her bsn from uta. between her and her friends, i've heard the good, the bad, and the ugly about most schools in the region, in addition to those from other states and even other countries (uk, australia, canada).

i hope i can say "welcome to collin!" in person next semester, but no matter which program you end up attending, you won't go wrong attending any of the excellent and challenging schools in the area. best wishes and good luck!

gregory

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Apr 20, 2010

Hey, Greg--

Impressive post, the statistics are pretty impressive, and except for the character assassinating passive aggression, not too bad an effort. Your post was a better presentation than some of my university students' work when I was an adjunct professor.

Where did the stats come from? Tell ---- hi from me. LOL

Incidentally, in "evidence based nursing" which they weren't teaching when I was there, but if they are now, great!, we give the whole statistic. And we also include any disclaimers such as conflict of interest. People often want to portray themselves as being objective but they cannot be--they are in the mix with the rest of it. An outsider with nothing to lose or gain, who has access to the whole picture, that's an bit of data that can be counted on to be (at least mostly) dependable. This will make more sense when you are in graduate school, and I think you probably will go in that direction--based on the minimal bit of evidence I have (your post).

So, when you talk about 85% of this, 97% of that, is that of the graduating class? Oh, yeah, that's right, it is.

So if your statistics are based on graduating class numbers, what is the attrition rate? That means, what percent of the starting students never finished?

If you look at, for example, the data of students passing the NCLEX compared to the students who start the course, you do not find those glowing statistics.

I didn't see any reference to the fact that the nursing school was on probation and had to make some major changes and be reinspected in order to keep their credential. That happened after my time there, which would lend some credence to what I said--apparently the NLNAC agreed with me about the quality of the education there, or they would not have put CCCCD on probation and required changes. That's pretty objective, huh.

Incidentally, the more you spout and the more you post, doesn't change the fact of what is and what was. Individual experiences are "evidence." What I posted and will continue to post is "evidence." I don't lie and I don't cheat. And I will most certainly share my experience and knowledge when asked, because "all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." I'm not a man but..... If I am asked, I help when I can. If my experience helps people avoid what I wasn't protected from, good, I'll share it.

If you are truly open to "evidence based" critical thinking, rather than take pot shots at my personality (admittedly, you did it less than your classmates, but it is still there), you will take my experiences in as evidence.

While you are learning "evidence based nursing," were you taught about how to judge the quality of the evidence? Here's something to consider: you are employed there. Your future depends, even more than most students, upon the good will of persons who have power over you.

This is called a "conflict of interest" and casts a pall on anything you might write or say or do, except that which is objective and can be substantiated. And you did that pretty well about most of what you wrote. (I'd give you an A, no question.)

Now, your experiences are your experiences, and I have no doubt of your affection for and admiration of everyone there who can either make your day pleasant or a living hell. I also have no doubt that the staff and such have a vested interest in keeping you happy, because what happens if the lab assistant isn't there? Chaos. And stress. And, because they are human beings, chipping at other people, including students, and it just gets to be one big unfortunate mess. Incidentally, the RN who runs the lab, she is tremendous. I didn't realize the damage done by the mistreatment I experienced until I ran into her on the street, and we greeted each other and I called her Ms., and she said, no you are my peer now. She actually was friendly. And then I realized, I had learned to be self protective of the staff at CCCCD. We don't do that because we feel safe and it is a good place to be. We do that because it is not safe, and if "they win," we lose in a big, big way. (this is OT and definitely not nursing, so if you are interested in clarification of that dynamic, email me, I'm out here...)

So you all have within your desire and interest the smooth running of the lab and the school, and happy students who will go out and spread the word. And that's fine, it is your experience and once you graduate, you have nothing to lose or gain, so presumably, you will feel even freer to tell the truth and the whole story. Good! If it is a good school, if instructors are kind and intelligent, yea! I will say this. They have done an excellent job of building the program. The place is huge. That's great.

So while you quote statistics, and that's impressive for a freshman or sophomore (I'm serious, it's impressive, even if you did get them from Nell or some other staff person), you are manipulating those statistics by not portraying the whole picture. I can take, for example, a piece of apple pie and put ten pecans in it. I can then assess that piece of pecan pie based on the extrapolation to the rest of the pie, and make the assumption that since there are 8 pieces, there must therefore be 80 pecans in that pie. But you and I both know, without looking at the rest of that pastry, that the only pecans are in the piece we are showing off.

That, my friend, is the responsible approach to evidence based discussion, nursing, whatever. So you may be taught something that they are calling "evidence based," but because you are the student, and you do not know how narrow the sample (or piece of pie) is that you are being told is the whole shebang, you are limited in your understanding. No problem though. You sound like you care enough to continue to grow. You won't become a line worker type nurse, you'll be one who has enthusiasm and who cares.

We can use many more like you.

Nice job, though as I said, the character assassination. That still looks like the Collin County I knew and loved. You should do whatever it takes to graduate, that's your goal and must be your goal. So if potshots help, I have a pretty strong skin.

Glad to know some things never change! :yeah:

allnurses Guide · Apr 20, 2010

Chris - CCCC has a 90% retention rate for their grads...those stats are at the same link I posted showing the graduation percentages of local schools through the BON I believe. It is also one of the highest in the state.

I am sorry you don't like CCCC. Most of the students are doing well and are very happy and proud to have been accepted there and are very favorably recieved in the medical community. Did they have the simulation lab when you were there? If not, you ought to visit. It is amazing.

Zero time to get together as we discussed, but it is good to see you are doing well. Rock on. :)

Gregorach · Apr 21, 2010

Christine,

There isn't a program out there that's perfect. Including ours. It's not deplorable as you've suggested. I'm sure most if not all programs have quirks that make you cock your head like a puppy and wonder, "Why on earth..."

I work in the lab to help my fellow and following students be more successful. I have a history of success in teaching others in a variety of theaters including IT, music, martial arts instruction, mentoring future nurses that were struggling through and failing out of A&P I & II... I decided to apply that penchant to benefit my program, my school, and the possibility that one of these students might be the first face I see upon waking in the hospital after something traumatic. I'm NOT all that, but one HELPS where one can, assuming you have the wiring. I don't NEED that job. My loyalty is not financially based. I don't OWE any college my welfare or wellbeing. And as an officer of my class/cycle, I challenge the status quo when appropriate and when it will benefit my friends and beloved classmates. Yeah, we all suffer through NSG school. Every one has its stories, many of which I'm sure are in common.

I'm not biased because of where I work. I left a different job making more money to work in that lab doing what I do. I work there because even very good things can be made better. We're not above that by any means. What makes Collin a great program is a persistent, constant drive to improve the program and the breadth and depth of the students' education. You can rationalize why you didn't complete that program. Baseless accusations wherein you refuse to support your assertions with facts says a lot about one's character. I'm not attacking your character, you seem like a very nice and giving person. I'm calling you to task on the insistent negativity. I'm not engaging in character assasination, you're already doing that yourself.

The statistics quoted are referenced in the links accompanying said statistics. Scroll up. Also, as previously stated, we were awarded 3rd in state not based solely on 1st-time NCLEX pass rate, but a function of that AND retention. That was also in my preceding post. As I do with anyone that likes to make unreasonable and spurious claims, please show me your source of information about the accreditation probation, from a reputable source. Otherwise, your assertions are groundless, something any aspirants to Collin or any of the other excellent N. Dallas (or N. TX, for that matter) colleges will realize.

Please support your defamatory remarks, or better yet, promote the laudable parts of your almae matres and abstain from the petty and unprofessional bashing of one of the shining stars in the constellation of Texas NSG schools that insist upon the very best from, and for, their students, in the interest of improving this honorable profession.