Becoming an NP with little to no nursing experience?? - page 48

Hello to all!!! I have worked as a parmamedic for 20 years, have a B.A. in Economics, and I wanted to advance my career in healthcare. I was originally looking to pursue the PA route, but for... Read More

  1. by   roser13
    "For those holding the view of need for experience before advanced education, share your reason's [sic] as well."

    A graduate of an MBA program without prior experience may very well start their business career at an advanced level. However, they likely will not manage many or any personnel until they gain experience (1) in the field, and (2) as a manager. The same applies (or should) to nursing personnel.

    While an advanced practice nurse may have fulfilled the academic requirements, he/she is not qualified to manage experienced nursing personnel unless and until he/she actually works in the field. For better or for worse, the nursing profession requires even more actual experience in order to be an effective leader/manager. Nursing is a mixture of aptitude, talent and dedication to the craft that is not necessarily required in other professions. Any newly-graduated nurse in his/her first job will tell you that school only partially prepared them for the practice of nursing. An academics-only trained practitioner is not up to the job.
    Last edit by roser13 on Oct 31, '10
  2. by   TheCommuter
    Quote from OCNRN63
    FWIW, I would never go to an NP with no experience. Then again, <putting on flame-retardant suit> I'm not really an advocate of any midlevel practitioners, period. If I'm sick, I want a doctor directing my care.
    Although there's no need to put on that flame-retardant suit, be aware that physicians get the diagnosis correct only about 80 percent of the time.

    Why Doctors So Often Get It Wrong - New York Times
  3. by   sirI
    Threads merged.
  4. by   rn/writer
    I have always viewed education and experience as right foot and left foot. Using that metaphor, you can hop quite a distance, but doing so probably isn't the best way to get where you're going.

    Credentials shine best when coupled with real-world credibility.
  5. by   core0
    Quote from remifentanil
    The fact is there is only one advanced practice nurse speciality that does require experience. The fact that other APN programs do not require it speaks volumes to the academic rigors of those programs. If you can enter a school with ZERO experience... and graduate an APN...res ipsa loquitor.
    Technically there are two APN specialties that require experience. On NP and one not.
  6. by   grannyrn65
    Quote from elkpark
    I don't disagree with you at all (as I said, I'm not a fan of direct entry programs) and am not trying to argue with you -- I was just responding to your statement that, prior to 2000, NP programs required several years of nursing experience. You didn't specify that you were referring to any particular type of NP program, just that "NP programs" required previous nursing experience. That statement just wasn't accurate, as there were already plenty of direct entry programs around long before 2000 (regardless of whether or not any of us think that's a good idea ).

    (BTW, I am also an old diploma grad, and v. proud of that. )
    Actually I was referring to all types of NP's. And you are correct, there have been numerous programs that admitted anyone hold a BS or BA to a BSN TO MS/NP program. But the one I attended and the ones I looked into-California, Florida, Washington,New York, all required that you have a BSN and several years experience. My clinical practicum consisted of numerous hours spent under a practicing NP's. Since I was from out of state and had not worked in several years, I had a devil of a time finding someone (ven with the help of the faculty. This leads me to another question, how is a direct entry NP student going to find someone to supervise all of her/his clinicals? I know I never would have agreed to one, before retiring.

    Did you know Ellis Hospital, Schenectady,NY, still has a diploma program. Their students do take several courses at SCC.

    GrannyRN65
  7. by   elkpark
    Quote from grannyrn65
    This leads me to another question, how is a direct entry NP student going to find someone to supervise all of her/his clinicals? I know I never would have agreed to one, before retiring.

    Did you know Ellis Hospital, Schenectady,NY, still has a diploma program. Their students do take several courses at SCC.
    I don't know anything about Ellis Hospital, but there are still quite a few diploma programs scattered around the US. My state has two (my own is not one of them, unfortunately -- it closed several years ago). Pennsylvania has a whole bunch, as I understand.

    As for preceptors in direct entry programs, at my school, all the clinical experiences were supervised by school faculty in facilities with which the school had ongoing relationships, same as clinical in undergraduate nursing programs. I would never be willing to pay tuition to a school that expected me to arrange my own clinicals, and I'm surprised that there are so many schools out there that do (and that people are willing to go to them).
  8. by   futrn
    So here is where I am confused about this whole need experience thing.... I would like to go straight through to become a holistic nurse practioner and there is a program near me where i can make this all happen in the next five years and that is my plan. When I read threads like this it gets me a bit discrouraged. Here is what I dont get though, you see, I have a friend who got her bachelors in biology and now got her masters as a physicians assistant and she went straight through. A NP is very similar to a PA, yet actually going through the NP route you get way more experience in healthcare and clinical time then a PA because instead of spending four years studying biology I will spend it on nursing and patient care. So how come going straight through is ok for my friend who went the PA route but for myself I keep hearing wait and get experience...I would rather go through and get my masters while I am young and do not have children and can devote the time to it, why is this a bad thing? I have my whole life to gain experience... Oh yes also by the time I get to that level I may have to get my doctorate...when this happens I think more young nurses will be going straight through because of these added years of school required...after this requirment the only difference for doctors really is there four year internship requirment...yet NPs only get paid a fraction of what doctors do....
    Last edit by futrn on Jan 31, '11 : Reason: added thought
  9. by   Grnrn
    Personally, I think, nursing experience would give you a leg up when starting out, and perhaps, make a learnig curve a little less steep. However, I know people who had no prior nursing experience to becomong NPs and who did just great. Let this not stop you!

    To comment on someone above stating that she'd never go to an NP program which will not set up clinicals for her. It is a great if you have such a choice, but if you want to become an NP and all the schools within 100 mile radius DO NOT set up clinicals for you, what will you do? Online? Perhaps, but that would then not be local and even less likely you will have the option of setting up the clinical. From what I understand, not too many schools have such luxury. So, it looks like, if you are motivated enough to become an NP, that should not be an obstacle. When there is a wil,l there is a way!

    Good luck!

    FNP student
    Last edit by Grnrn on Jan 31, '11 : Reason: error
  10. by   PMFB-RN
    Quote from Marah1984
    Oh yes also by the time I get to that level I may have to get my doctorate...when this happens I think more young nurses will be going straight through because of these added years of school required...after this requirment the only difference for doctors really is there four year internship requirment...yet NPs only get paid a fraction of what doctors do....
    *** Really? You REALLY think the ONLY difference between a physician and an NP who goes through a DNP is the "four year internship"? First family practice and internal medicine residencies (not internship) are three years, not four. Second I hate to think of the impression you will make on the physicians you work with with that bit of fantasy.
  11. by   futrn
    Well from what I know MDs get a premed degree, usually either biology or chemistry. Then you enter a four year doctorate program. Then you have a three to four year residency. Right now for me I will get my undergraduate in nursing and then to become a DNP would take me another four...so the difference is the different medical models....and the residency...hopefully I can get experience I can get experience
    during the summers and after I graduate. But no I do not believe a MD and a NP are the same...a NP obviously does not have the same scope of practice as a MD...what I do think is the same is PA and NP and students wanting to go straight to a PA program after getting their bachelors aren't expected to have experience so why are we.
  12. by   jjjoy
    Quote from Marah1984
    A NP is very similar to a PA, yet actually going through the NP route you get way more experience in healthcare and clinical time then a PA because instead of spending four years studying biology I will spend it on nursing and patient care.
    PA education is three years dedicated specifically to PA education. Bio majors, in addition to their biology coursework, also have taken gen ed, bio pre-reqs, related upper division coursework and any other pre-reqs for PA school. On the other hand, the dedicated nursing component of a BSN program apparently can be crammed into just one year as evidenced by one- year accelered 2nd bach BSN programs. The other 3 years' worth of a BSN education is gen ed, pre-reqs and co-reqs (eg statistics, epidemiology, upper division electives).

    More importantly, consider that RN-student clinical hours are focused on nursing care, not mid-level provider (NP/PA) care. Having a BSN definitely can benefit a mid-level student, but RN-student clinical hours are not an equitable substitute for mid-level-student clinical hours.
  13. by   futrn
    Right I am not comparing a RN to a PA I am comparing a NP to a PA. I will have 3 years of low level clinical RN experience and then the upper level clinical experience I will receive as I get my nurse practitioner license...which will most likely be a doctorate...so I believe that is four years. this seems to me like I will graduate with more experience than new PA grads without prior experience. The PA programs I know of are two year programs...

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