I Am FURIOUS!!!! - page 2

last wednesday, my dtr was admitted to a psyche facility in the dual dx program. she was started on lithium and zoloft, w/prn vistaril. today when i went to visit her, i found out she was on 45/15... Read More

  1. by   PMHNP10
    Quote from earle58
    no, she wasn't court-ordered. when she got worked up by psyche in children's hospital, they said she needed an in-pt facility in the dual dx program. i told them no, and they said they could override my decision if need be.
    I just have a real problem with this. I am not even going to pretend I have the legal expertise, but based on what I have read in you posts, something isn't right. In a medical emergency they could go against your wishes, but I get no sense that this was a medical emergency. Since this was a mental health issue, I can't imagine any state which has legislation in place making it legal to hold an adult against their wishes unless they are a danger to themselves (suicidal), danger to others (homicidal), or gravely disabled (unable to provide self with food, clothing, shelter, etc.). If this is an adult's rights, wouldn't it make sense that parents would have the same rights with regards to their children? I know that in CA, children who have made some sort of suicidal gesture/attempt have been allowed to go home with the parents as long as there is no medical concern if the parents want to take them home and assume responsibility for their child. I also know that in TX a former coworker was told to do whatever it took to get the patient to sign in voluntarily, which did include lying that they could force the patient to remain as an inpatient. I'm in no position to offer legal advice, but perhaps you could consult a patients' rights advocate or lawyer who specializes in mental health.
  2. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from psychrn03
    I just have a real problem with this. I am not even going to pretend I have the legal expertise, but based on what I have read in you posts, something isn't right. In a medical emergency they could go against your wishes, but I get no sense that this was a medical emergency. Since this was a mental health issue, I can't imagine any state which has legislation in place making it legal to hold an adult against their wishes unless they are a danger to themselves (suicidal), danger to others (homicidal), or gravely disabled (unable to provide self with food, clothing, shelter, etc.). If this is an adult's rights, wouldn't it make sense that parents would have the same rights with regards to their children? I know that in CA, children who have made some sort of suicidal gesture/attempt have been allowed to go home with the parents as long as there is no medical concern if the parents want to take them home and assume responsibility for their child. I also know that in TX a former coworker was told to do whatever it took to get the patient to sign in voluntarily, which did include lying that they could force the patient to remain as an inpatient. I'm in no position to offer legal advice, but perhaps you could consult a patients' rights advocate or lawyer who specializes in mental health.
    evidentally they thought her to be a threat to herself. she had that 'i don't care what happens to me' attitude and she was drinking vodka on a regular basis. combined w/the fact that she detests her father so much and he was such a trigger, they felt in-pt was the safest place for her.
    now once she's medically stabilized, then maybe we can work on out-pt, intensive programs. they want to transfer her to another in-pt facility which her np said that facility IS reputable. it's up to tiffany. of course i want her home but she doesn't want to see her father. they just put her on a few more meds in addition to the lithium; remeron, risperdal, strattera (she does have ADD) and abilify. this psychiatrist was conservative in her dosages so we shall see. they also changed the lithium to liquid form.
    ever since tiff told me what was going on, i've spoken w/the case mgr and the medical director yesterday. the med'l director was incredulous. and the gen'l consensus is that she's lying. so i told them to do a lithium level on one of the pts there; which they did because tiff had been giving her lithium to this girl who wanted it.
    i didn't ask for the results but now tiffany told me they're doing mouth checks differently so all my vocal outrage must have helped a little. she also told me that there's a few pts that asked if tiff ratted them out and she said no.....they better not do anything to her. :angryfire
    in hindsight, i have to agree that she did need in-pt care,but not at this facility. i was assured that the other facility she might be going to is highly, highly reputable. so one day at a time. i'll give the meds a little while to see if she adjusts to them but if she remains too sedated, then i'll have some removed, probably the risperdal and maybe the abilify. we'll see.
    so yeah, children's hospital did think it was emergent. i appreciate your feedback and insight psycho.

    leslie
  3. by   CHATSDALE
    leslie...go to the hospital that they have suggested moving tiffany to...don't make up your mind for/against until you have some direct knowledge..
    it may be that it would be a good thing or may be just a transfer to a people warehouse
    if she can benefit from another inpatient facility..go for it
    if you feel that you can handle it at home where you would be in charge of the meds make the necessary changes [ie father has been opting to leave...move it out of the option catagory] tough times require tough decisions
    some of these programs suggested by other posts sound like a winner..getting in touch with other parents in like situations gives you support and you don't feel like you are alone in the world
    i am so glad that she is talking to you..the problem with so many teens is that they shut parents out
    again get in touch with the support groups...maybe they have been to a facility whitch they found helpful and lead you away from the bad ones
    good luck and keep posting
  4. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from CHATSDALE
    leslie...go to the hospital that they have suggested moving tiffany to...don't make up your mind for/against until you have some direct knowledge..
    it may be that it would be a good thing or may be just a transfer to a people warehouse
    if she can benefit from another inpatient facility..go for it
    if you feel that you can handle it at home where you would be in charge of the meds make the necessary changes [ie father has been opting to leave...move it out of the option catagory] tough times require tough decisions
    some of these programs suggested by other posts sound like a winner..getting in touch with other parents in like situations gives you support and you don't feel like you are alone in the world
    i am so glad that she is talking to you..the problem with so many teens is that they shut parents out
    again get in touch with the support groups...maybe they have been to a facility whitch they found helpful and lead you away from the bad ones
    good luck and keep posting
    yeah, they just started her on a whole regime of meds yesterday.
    once she's medically stable, i've decided to send her to this other in-pt facility so she can get that intensive 1:1 and also, i don't need her father triggering any feelings. God, this has been such a nocmare and i do not like this facility. i'm even thinking about getting her transferred there now, if they have any beds there. i hate this place. one nurse was drawing a lithium level on a pt who wasn't on lithium. so when this pt questioned it, the nurse told this pt that she heard that the pt was taking someone else's lithium. well duh, since tiff's the only one on lithium on the girl's side (boys & girls are segregated)....so now she has some pts ticked off at her; the whole environment is not therapeutic to say the least.
    but this other facility has a phenomenal reputation but God, my heart aches so much for my dtr. last few days have been incredibly rough....i think i'll call the case mgr now and leave a message re: transferring her.

    thanks chattsy.


    leslie xo
  5. by   Psychaprn
    Quote from earle58
    last wednesday, my dtr was admitted to a psyche facility in the dual dx program.
    she was started on lithium and zoloft, w/prn vistaril.
    today when i went to visit her, i found out she was on 45/15 room lock-up; 45 minutes in her room, 15 minutes out.
    today she told me that there are 4-5 of these teens who pocket their meds in their mouth, then later pool them altogether and divide them.
    so tiff hasn't gotten 1 dose of lithium because another girl wanted it.
    she told me she took 3 seroquels, 1 trazadone, 1 adderall, and 1 librium.
    also she gave her self rubber burns on her wrist from an eraser; her wrist has 3 lg-sized scabs.
    so instead of getting better, she told me all the things she has learned on this unit. this a.m. she got a prn vistaril for agitation. she told me she pocketed it, then crushed it and snorted it. she had never known about snorting before this.
    we talked for quite a long time, and as i left, i shared all the info w/the nurse.
    this particular nurse is wonderful and works the 3-11 shift. he could obviously tell i was enraged.
    when i got home, i left 2 voice mails on the case mgr's phone, relaying the info tiff told me, and threatening to call the state.
    i then called the evening nurse back and told him i wanted tiff taken off the 45/15 with the rationale being, had the nurse done his/her job properly, these kids wouldn't be pooling their meds together and they'd be receiving the meds they should be getting. so this nurse told me he'd remove the restrictions. to me that shows he understands and agrees with my rationales.

    have any of you psyche nurses experienced this? they want to transfer her to another in-pt facility for intensive therapy; this hospital is just for medically stabilizing her..... i am SO SO ENRAGED. why should the kids be punished for those nurses who don't do their job correctly?

    do i have any say in the decision to tranfer her to another in-pt facility?
    if she starts taking her lithium a/o and she stabilizes, do i have any legal right to refuse this transfer? i would put her in an out-pt program where there is therapy 8 hrs qd then go home at noc.

    any feedback, advice, input, perspective??????? this so totally sucks all around. she's worse now, not better. and just for the fact that she shared all this stuff with me, is a cry for help in itself....

    thanks,

    leslie


    i, TOO AM SORRY FOR ALL YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH. DON'T KNOW HOW OLD YOUR DAUGHTER IS BUT I HOPE YOU HAVE TOLD HER TOO THAT WHAT SHE DID IS UNSAFE AND WRONG. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR KIDS TO LEARN TO TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR DECISIONS AND BEHAVIOR. IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE SHE IS PSYCHOTIC. ALL THE PSYCH. UNITS I'VE WORKED ON HAVE SOME PATIENTS WHO WILL FIND WAYS AROUND THE LIMITS AND RULES. THE ONLY (ALMOST SURE TECHNIQUE ) IS MOUTH CHECKS AND 1 ON 1 OBSERVATION. GOOD LUCK. YOU SHOULD ALSO REQUEST SOME FAMILY MTNGS. TO STAY INVOLVED IN HER CARE.
  6. by   mattsmom81
    I'm so sorry you are going through this Leslie...my thoughts are with you.
    Last edit by mattsmom81 on May 6, '05
  7. by   jnette
    Oh, LESLIE. ((((((((((((((((((( )))))))))))))))))))

    Been out of touch here awhile as you know. I am so VERY sorry you and Tiff are going through all this. I cannot imagine. Can't even BEGIN to imagine the pain for BOTH of you.

    But she will see and KNOW that you are there for her, and that you will not abandon her. She already knows this is her heart, but now, more than ever, she needs this reassurance.

    You are doing all the right things.. but as Marla stated, do keep your cool, no matter what. Be angry if need be, but be professional and maintain ! Losing it would surely work against all your efforts.

    (((HUGS))) Leslie.
  8. by   leslie :-D
    thanks jnette.

    yesterday and today, i was allowed to bring a friend of tiff's. so i brought friend a yesterday and friend b today- which made her ecstatic....she's also been behaving (and/or meds kicking in?) which earned her an hour on the hospital grounds....so the 3 of us sat in my car and we just talked and listened to tiff's music (since she can't have her cds).

    i told her that when she does come home, i'm going to be watching her closely and probably be overly-protective/neurotic.

    she said i could test her (with those etoh kits) anytime i want at random.
    BUT i also know they have stuff on the market that can clean out your system. i'm sorry, i just don't trust her yet. but yeah, i've been there every single day- and i decided she will go to that other in-pt hospital for intensive 1:1 therapy. i don't want to chance an out-pt program where she has weekends to herself; i don't want her having any temptations. plus w/this intensive 24/7 1:1 therapy, will probably be much more beneficial.
    but i'm glad she's improved these past 2 days.
    maybe if she had been getting what she should have all along, the improvement might have been sooner.
    i know i should feel happy for her, but this hospitalization has wiped me out.
    i'm still her mom so i've been reflecting on what i could have done to prevent this..... ,but i suppose i'll just deal in the here and now, for now.

    but yes jnette, it truly sucks.

    leslie xo
  9. by   jnette
    Quote from earle58
    thanks jnette.

    yesterday and today, i was allowed to bring a friend of tiff's. so i brought friend a yesterday and friend b today- which made her ecstatic....she's also been behaving (and/or meds kicking in?) which earned her an hour on the hospital grounds....so the 3 of us sat in my car and we just talked and listened to tiff's music (since she can't have her cds).

    i told her that when she does come home, i'm going to be watching her closely and probably be overly-protective/neurotic.

    she said i could test her (with those etoh kits) anytime i want at random.
    BUT i also know they have stuff on the market that can clean out your system. i'm sorry, i just don't trust her yet. but yeah, i've been there every single day- and i decided she will go to that other in-pt hospital for intensive 1:1 therapy. i don't want to chance an out-pt program where she has weekends to herself; i don't want her having any temptations. plus w/this intensive 24/7 1:1 therapy, will probably be much more beneficial.
    but i'm glad she's improved these past 2 days.
    maybe if she had been getting what she should have all along, the improvement might have been sooner.
    i know i should feel happy for her, but this hospitalization has wiped me out.
    i'm still her mom so i've been reflecting on what i could have done to prevent this..... ,but i suppose i'll just deal in the here and now, for now.

    but yes jnette, it truly sucks.

    leslie xo
    So glad Tiff's showing improvement and cooperating, Leslie.

    Please don't be too hard on yourself by blaming yourself.. we could spend our entire lives dwelling on what we could have done better. We do the very best we can and that is all we can do.

    Some good counseling to discuss and confront her anger, disappointments, issues with her father, etc. and how to constructively deal with these issues in her life would be most beneficial. Just to understand that "drowning" her pain is only a bandaid, and cuases the wound underneath to fester and worsen. I hope she will be able to take the bad and create something wonderful from it. She has so much to live for, and she will go far if she learns this now.

    Yes, keep a close eye on her, but don't let her feel it's a "punitive" watchful eye.. rather one that CARES about her wellbeing, safety, future.. just as a mother watches her toddler closely as he gains independence and begins to investigate his surroundings.. that mother always watching lovingly to make sure he doesn't run out into the street.

    I know how painful this must be for you, Leslie.. but the two of you have always been tight, and I believe you will continue to be. Keep those communication lines open and let her know how proud you are of her and how sorry you are for her pain. And that you would die for her to save her if it ever came to that.

    She'll be alright. And so will you, my friend. So will you. (((HUGS)))

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