Paleo/Primal Diet? - page 2

Does anyone have any experience with the Paleo diet? Like what you'd see on Mark's Daily Apple or PaNu - PāNu Blog . Did anyone have a positive (or negative) experience with it? Do you see any major... Read More

  1. Visit  nutmeg1 profile page
    1
    I have been eating Paleo for the past 2 years. My entire family eats paleo, and the gym members where I workout eat paleo. A "diet" that I have sustained for 2 years is most certainly not a fad diet. It is my lifestyle. I have never felt nor looked better. Weight loss is just a perk, as there are so many more benefits to the diet like reducing inflammation, increasing serotonin levels, gaining lean muscle, etc. Before you knock paleo, read "The Paleo Solution" by Robb Wolf, and give the lifestyle a try for 30 days. The results will not disappoint. And if the way you feel isn't enough to convince you, get your blood levels/hormones checked before you start, then get them checked after 30-60 days. You will be amazed by the results.
    samanthaaRN likes this.
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  3. Visit  mingez profile page
    1
    We Paleo folks are ALL about science!

    I've been "Ancestral" or "Paleo" for about 1 and 1/2 years now. It's completely changed my life. So much so that it's inspired me to consider changing careers to RD or Nutrition Research.

    Some anecdotal n=1 evidence: I have a resolved hiatal hernia, have lost 22 pounds, no longer have reflux or need of PPIs, my lipid panel has flipped completely to perfect, and I'm stronger
    My family:
    Wife has lost 20 lbs
    Father got off BP meds and is regularly now ~100/60, has great lipid panel, and has lost 11lbs (wasn't that big)
    Stepson: off ADD meds, and was considered obese, now his BMI is "normal."

    I have even dedicated a blog to the subject found here: ANTHROfit

    Unfortunately, ancestral eating is only understood by those in the medical research community, and has yet to punture the paradigm of the clinical community as of yet. There's a lot of politics as to why this is, please do the research. (It all gets conspiracy theory sounding as to the why's) But the short answer is some bad science (see "Lipid Hypothesis) and $.

    For science: Go to robbwolf.com, perfecthealthdiet.com. There you can link to many articles and PLENTY of pubmed.

    MANY clinicians (MD, DO, NP, PA) have converted and there's even a paleo physician's network.
    Steffipunk likes this.
  4. Visit  Asystole RN profile page
    2
    Quote from mingez
    We Paleo folks are ALL about science!

    I've been "Ancestral" or "Paleo" for about 1 and 1/2 years now. It's completely changed my life. So much so that it's inspired me to consider changing careers to RD or Nutrition Research.

    Some anecdotal n=1 evidence: I have a resolved hiatal hernia, have lost 22 pounds, no longer have reflux or need of PPIs, my lipid panel has flipped completely to perfect, and I'm stronger
    My family:
    Wife has lost 20 lbs
    Father got off BP meds and is regularly now ~100/60, has great lipid panel, and has lost 11lbs (wasn't that big)
    Stepson: off ADD meds, and was considered obese, now his BMI is "normal."

    I have even dedicated a blog to the subject found here: ANTHROfit

    Unfortunately, ancestral eating is only understood by those in the medical research community, and has yet to punture the paradigm of the clinical community as of yet. There's a lot of politics as to why this is, please do the research. (It all gets conspiracy theory sounding as to the why's) But the short answer is some bad science (see "Lipid Hypothesis) and $.

    For science: Go to robbwolf.com, perfecthealthdiet.com. There you can link to many articles and PLENTY of pubmed.

    MANY clinicians (MD, DO, NP, PA) have converted and there's even a paleo physician's network.
    Those results are from weight loss, not necessarily a direct result of the pale diet. Similar results could be found from any number of fad diets such as the south beach diet, Atkins, the Twinkie diet, or the cocaine and coffee diet.

    For a diet that is supposedly safe and effective it is a travesty that the American Medical Association, the American Heart Association, and the American Society of Clinical Nutritionists does not support it.

    There might be something to just eating a balanced diet with plenty of exercise.
    Aurora77 and floridanurse1983 like this.
  5. Visit  mingez profile page
    4
    Quote from Asystole RN
    Those results are from weight loss, not necessarily a direct result of the pale diet. Similar results could be found from any number of fad diets such as the south beach diet, Atkins, the Twinkie diet, or the cocaine and coffee diet.

    For a diet that is supposedly safe and effective it is a travesty that the American Medical Association, the American Heart Association, and the American Society of Clinical Nutritionists does not support it.

    There might be something to just eating a balanced diet with plenty of exercise.
    A bit of a short-sighted response, but I'll play. To say that "Those results are from weight loss" not 100% true and is missing the point. First, those improvements I listed were just the off the top of my head. However, if you insist on needing more examples: In addition to my stepson dropping his ADD meds (mentioned above) his skin cleared up as well. He had early onset acne ever since he was 8. My wife dropped her lexapro with no complications. And my father no longer needs meds for his arthritis. These are some additional outcomes which one can't attribute simply to weight loss. However, nutrition and health is all interrelated.

    The weight loss is an expected outcome of eating healthy. I didn't "Diet" to get these results, any more than a vegetarian isn't on a "Diet." That being said, my lipid panel is hard to achieve if one follows the diet set forth by the ADA as diets high in carbs will garner one a panel leaning heavier towards triglycerides and encourages intestinal permeability and gut dysbiosis. The paleo, ancestral, Weston A Price methods of eating resolves those issues.

    My intent was to simply put my lot in with Pro-ancestral nutrition, and not necessarily to defend it. I will say this, I was eating an ADA "Balanced" diet to the "T" prior to going paleo. The weight loss and performance increase (as well as the improved labs) occurred just by switching my diet from ADA, AHA to paleo. No other variables changed. My activity level remained the same (crossfit 3x/week and 2 days strength training) The weight didn't come off until I changed the way I eat. Also, my father, wife, and stepson don't exercise at all. However, they were eating more SAD than AHA.


    RE: "Balanced diet". What is "Balanced"? Seed oils? Meats high in Omega 6? Grains like Cereal and Wheat? Low Fat? Certainly not. Fats (Saturated) are antibiotic in nature, and cancer-protective. They're necessary for proper brain function. Here's a great site about cholesterol and the many myths surrounding it: Cholesterol and Disease — Myths and Truths

    For most people, the ADA/AHA diet is unsustainable. The diet as set forth by the ADA makes people who are metabolically deranged, who are following the diet as ordered, feel as if they are doing something wrong...when such a diet is setting most folks up for failure. Humans just aren't simply intended to eat that way.

    There is also a ton of literature about ketogenic diets and "lowish" carb approaches and it's effect on brain function in such disease as my son's ADD, epilepsy, or Alzheimers. Again, the science doesn't support a diet that recommends most of one's macronutrients are obtained from carbs in the form of grains for ADD.

    It's about controlling insulin spikes, leptin disregulation, which in turn affects satiety, as well as adiposity. I am rarely hungry, rarely over-eat, and I don't have to put forth any mental effort (as I did before) in trying to control portions. I'm simply satiated, and it's liberating. Food just isn't a challenge anymore.

    So by all means, keep eating your muffin in the morning, cereal, and wonder why your ravenous by 1030.

    As for why the ADA hasn't embraced this way of eating, here is were you must do some reading. Research Ansel Keys, Lipid Hypothesis. Perhaps read Taubes' "Good Calories Bad Calories.

    Lustig's sugar is hepatotoxic lecture: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnni...layer_embedded
    Last edit by mingez on Feb 12, '12
  6. Visit  Asystole RN profile page
    1
    I half expected you to say that the Illuminati were responsible for the conspiracy that holds the paleo diet down. I would hope as a nurse that you would know what a balanced diet was, if not here would be a start ChooseMyPlate.gov

    I am glad this fad diet has worked out for you but honestly I have seen more "results" from those proclaiming that the HCG diet saved their health or swearing that Atkins allowed them to run a marathon.

    Until you can get a single reputable professional healthcare organization to sign off on this diet then it is simply a fad diet.

    Edit: I apologize for my cynicism but I recently was in a debate with a coworker that claimed coffee enemas were the greatest healthcare invention. She literally would take an enema bottle, fill it with coffee (tepid of course), and squirt it into her butt. She swore that it miraculously cured her breast cancer by dilating something in her liver and adjusting something else in her spleen. She swore up and down that it worked, cited some goofy clinic in Mexico "where all the celebrities" go and even cited from .com websites where there were "studies."

    Had a patient's brother claim that acidic water was the cure all of everything from MRSA to Alzheimer's. Claimed that we get sick due to our pH being out of balance and that we had to consume acidic water to balance it. He even had his own "acidic water machine" from Japan that would make it from simple tap water. Again, cited all these goofy clinics and websites with "studies."
    Last edit by Asystole RN on Feb 12, '12
    Not_A_Hat_Person likes this.
  7. Visit  mingez profile page
    1
    Quote from Asystole RN
    I half expected you to say that the Illuminati were responsible for the conspiracy that holds the paleo diet down. I would hope as a nurse that you would know what a balanced diet was, if not here would be a start ChooseMyPlate.gov

    I am glad this fad diet has worked out for you but honestly I have seen more "results" from those proclaiming that the HCG diet saved their health or swearing that Atkins allowed them to run a marathon.

    Until you can get a single reputable professional healthcare organization to sign off on this diet then it is simply a fad diet.
    And your maturity is revealed.

    Make fun, condescend, and blow me off as a conspiracy theorist if you must. I can't think for you, but clearly the ADA does. Research Pubmed. Read the peer-reviewed literature and please dont just read the abstracts.

    Also, in response to your hoping I know what a "Balanced diet" is....I point you here: Rhetorical Question Definition. It might not be peer-reviewed, but it'll do.
    morte likes this.
  8. Visit  mingez profile page
    0
    Quote from Asystole RN
    Edit: I apologize for my cynicism but I recently was in a debate with a coworker that claimed coffee enemas were the greatest healthcare invention. She literally would take an enema bottle, fill it with coffee (tepid of course), and squirt it into her butt. She swore that it miraculously cured her breast cancer by dilating something in her liver and adjusting something else in her spleen. She swore up and down that it worked, cited some goofy clinic in Mexico "where all the celebrities" go and even cited from .com websites where there were "studies."

    Had a patient's brother claim that acidic water was the cure all of everything from MRSA to Alzheimer's. Claimed that we get sick due to our pH being out of balance and that we had to consume acidic water to balance it. He even had his own "acidic water machine" from Japan that would make it from simple tap water. Again, cited all these goofy clinics and websites with "studies."
    I apologize for my retort to your cynicism as well. I'm pretty passionate about nutrition...

    Look, I understand. I'm a skeptic too. And the things you mention above about coffee enemas,etc, I agree it's crazy. But I rely on the research and science. I know it sounds like an insane amount of conspiracy theory..but I'm not about homeopathy or blood type diets, acupuncture... If you look at the diet, you'll see that it's not really that weird. The moniker "Paleo" (which I hate BTW) really makes it come off as hokey.

    The things I talk about are actually practiced in medicine and published in reputable journals. Ketogenic diets are legitamate (and the most effective) Tx for epilepsy. Nutrition research has become a strange hobby of mine as of late.
  9. Visit  Asystole RN profile page
    0
    Quote from mingez
    And your maturity is revealed.

    Make fun, condescend, and blow me off as a conspiracy theorist if you must. I can't think for you, but clearly the ADA does. Research Pubmed. Read the peer-reviewed literature and please dont just read the abstracts.

    Also, in response to your hoping I know what a "Balanced diet" is....I point you here: Rhetorical Question Definition. It might not be peer-reviewed, but it'll do.
    Having done my fair share of research I know that one or two studies, especially case studies, does not prove efficacy. There has to be many, many studies. Then there has to be statistical analysis to show a statistically significant correlation along with a meta-analysis of the studies.

    One or two studies means squat. I bet I could find you a study that says putting Jolly Ranchers in your butt will make you run faster. There has to be significant corresponding studies.

    In case you have never subscribed to research journals, there are hours and hours of reading worth of research put out every day on every subject. I subscribe to only a select few journals such as the JIN and I am up to my ears in reading. Professional healthcare associations, especially nursing associations, help professionals such as myself to digest all the material. I don't know about you but I simply do not have 28 hours a day to read nothing but research.

    Can you name a single professional healthcare association that supports the pale diet?
    Last edit by Asystole RN on Feb 12, '12
  10. Visit  KalipsoRed21 profile page
    2
    So I give my patients advice on diets, mostly because I find medicine to be woefully short in this area. Plus I happend to know that the ADA recommendations are wrong. Why? Well because look around you! Obesity rates and diabetes have increased a great deal since the recommendations went from "meat and potatoes" to "bread and potatoes". From what I've read nothing good comes from a diet that is mostly grains and veggies, but a lot of good comes from a diet that is mostly fat, protien's and veggies. Grains are the same as sugar even the complex carbohydrates are nothing more than sugar.

    The best resources that I give patients on diets are the movie FAT HEAD, the books WHY WE GET FAT: AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT by Gary Taubes, and THE BLUE ZONES by Dan Buettner. I also suggest that the patient watch SUPERSIZE ME before they watch FAT HEAD so that they can get a good global picture of the arguments.

    With all that being said, every nurse that stated it is not our place to advise on diets are CORRECT! This sort of diet counseling is something that you can get in trouble for doing because nutrition is not the nurse's place in medicine. That is for the dietician or nutritionist.

    Do I believe that half of the medical advice we give to our patients is good? No. I believe that the medical field is deluded with so much rampant pharmaceutical, insurance, religious, and political endorsed ******** these days that no one can see the light of day. Research to often says what the drug maker, insurance provider, religious fanatic, or politician wants it to say. If you care to give good advice to your patients it will involve a lot of research on your part to weed out the bias research from the good ones. If you do all this work and are giving your patients good information but not the advice that the medical field says you should be giving, well just be prepared to lose your job. What is right is in accordance to who is paying you, never forget that.
    nursbrooklyn and mingez like this.
  11. Visit  Asystole RN profile page
    2
    Quote from KalipsoRed21
    So I give my patients advice on diets, mostly because I find medicine to be woefully short in this area. Plus I happend to know that the ADA recommendations are wrong. Why? Well because look around you! Obesity rates and diabetes have increased a great deal since the recommendations went from "meat and potatoes" to "bread and potatoes". From what I've read nothing good comes from a diet that is mostly grains and veggies, but a lot of good comes from a diet that is mostly fat, protien's and veggies. Grains are the same as sugar even the complex carbohydrates are nothing more than sugar.

    The best resources that I give patients on diets are the movie FAT HEAD, the books WHY WE GET FAT: AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT by Gary Taubes, and THE BLUE ZONES by Dan Buettner. I also suggest that the patient watch SUPERSIZE ME before they watch FAT HEAD so that they can get a good global picture of the arguments.

    With all that being said, every nurse that stated it is not our place to advise on diets are CORRECT! This sort of diet counseling is something that you can get in trouble for doing because nutrition is not the nurse's place in medicine. That is for the dietician or nutritionist.

    Do I believe that half of the medical advice we give to our patients is good? No. I believe that the medical field is deluded with so much rampant pharmaceutical, insurance, religious, and political endorsed ******** these days that no one can see the light of day. Research to often says what the drug maker, insurance provider, religious fanatic, or politician wants it to say. If you care to give good advice to your patients it will involve a lot of research on your part to weed out the bias research from the good ones. If you do all this work and are giving your patients good information but not the advice that the medical field says you should be giving, well just be prepared to lose your job. What is right is in accordance to who is paying you, never forget that.
    I am confused, so you admit that you advise patients on diet yet state that it is not your place to do so in another paragraph?

    Are you really blaming the obesity epidemic on the American Diabetes Association??? Did not know their influence was that strong, wow. Are you sure that following the diet and recommendations causes obesity or rather not following their diet and recommendations? Hmmmm...

    Since you believe that much of our profession is based off of a conspiracy at the hands of the religious corporations can you cite us some examples? What recommendation by what professional healthcare organization is a direct result of conspiracy? Which standard of practice was developed to further the goals of the greedy corporation?

    Keep in mind the differences of nursing, medicine, and healthcare. Those terms are not interchangeable and there are significant differences in the practice.
  12. Visit  mingez profile page
    3
    Quote from asystole rn
    having done my fair share of research i know that one or two studies, especially case studies, does not prove efficacy. there has to be many, many studies. then there has to be statistical analysis to show a statistically significant correlation along with a meta-analysis of the studies.
    agreed. but nobody ever said there was just "one or two" studies. meta-analysis of the studies works, however, when the body of the research is founded on bunk principles (such as the lipid hypothesis, or the china study) with no question as to whether those founding principles are incorrect, meta-analysis results are either flawed or irrelevant. read "good calories bad calories" for a more eloquent argument as to how and why this happend in nutrition.

    Quote from asystole rn
    one or two studies means squat. i bet i could find you a study that says putting jolly ranchers in your butt will make you run faster. there has to be significant corresponding studies.
    that's a lazy argument.
    the reasoning here is about reading and critically thinking about the material. this is why one must go beyond the abstract.

    Quote from asystole rn
    in case you have never subscribed to research journals, there are hours and hours of reading worth of research put out every day on every subject. i subscribe to only a select few journals such as the jin and i am up to my ears in reading. professional healthcare associations, especially nursing associations, help professionals such as myself to digest all the material. i don't know about you but i simply do not have 28 hours a day to read nothing but research.
    yet, you have time to argue with me on allnurses at 1 am in the morning? clearly you're swamped. you have time to debate, but no time to educate yourself about the opposite side of the argument.
    and i'm confused, you cite not having educated yourself or "digested" the material, yet you are perfectly comfortable telling people that the are wrong about their nutritional philosophy? interesting.

    Quote from asystole rn
    can you name a single professional healthcare association that supports the pale diet?
    is that your main argument? i would think that as a nurse you'd opt to critically think about things on occasion rather than just regurgitate dogma. the current lowfat, high carb approach the ada recommends has become part of the zeitgeist. it's an understood "fact," which is never questioned by people who don't need to think about it. but there is a lot of history there which i can only tell you read up about. but conveniently, you have no time for this; with all your allnurses postings and professional endeavors and all.

    this is the same organization that recommended margarine, trans-fats, saccharine, without any evidence-based research. zero. they can, and have been wrong.

    Quote from asystole rn
    are you really blaming the obesity epidemic on the american diabetes association??? did not know their influence was that strong, wow. are you sure that following the diet and recommendations causes obesity or rather not following their diet and recommendations? hmmmm...
    is that how you selectively interpreted kalipso's post? give me a break. talk about being captious in argument. kalipso was pointing out, not that the ada is "to blame" but rather that the evidence that the current recommendations are ineffective are all around us. the causes are much more complex obviously, but instead you choose to belittle kalipso's take on the matter with condescending rhetoric.

    and ps, kalipso was talking about the american dietetic association.

    ------------------------------
    in the end, i'm not asking you to buy in to the idea of an ancestral or evolutionary based way of eating, i'm just suggesting you look in to it. research, then refute, that's typically the order things are done. if one has no basis for their argument other than "governing body 'x' says so," then one has no argument at all.
    Last edit by mingez on Feb 12, '12
    nursbrooklyn, KalipsoRed21, and morte like this.
  13. Visit  Asystole RN profile page
    0
    I am surprised that a new grad nurse was able to read and digest so many studies, usually this takes years of dedicated studies but you manage to refute thousands of years worth of study and hundreds of thousands of years worth of experience that is represent in the AMA, ADA etc...

    Can you cite me a single professional healthcare organization that supports the pale diet?

    Can you cite a single example as to how there is a conspiracy by these professional organizations that is attempting to hold down the paleo diet?


    I've been told time to time that I am arrogant but I have never had the hubris to declare that the AMA, ADA, NANP, and IAACN simply does not know what they are talking about. I want to go to your nursing school, to teach enough nutrition to know more than whole professional groups of MDs and RDs in a 1 semester class is amazing!
  14. Visit  Asystole RN profile page
    0
    I will make this real easy for everyone, I have some time on my hands here.

    Cite me a single meta-analysis or other literature statistical analysis review that shows a correlation of 0.3 or greater of a patient population greater than 1,000 that demonstrates that the paleo diet does all the wonderful things it is claimed to do.

    A book, a clinic, a movie, a friends word, a .com website, and a poster above a urinal do not work. Cite me the studies.


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