Should the H1N1 Vaccine be mandatory for Healthcare Professionals?

kcksk · Nov 8, 2009

Sorry, I was commenting on the person who said that it is the person who doesn't get the shot who is penalized if they get sick because they are the one that needs to stay home. I just see it that there are more people affected. Yes, people are still going to get the flu even if they have had the shot in the same way that kids still get chickenpox even if they have been vaccinated. Hopefully it will be a lesser course and they will recover quicker.

I have seen people be adamant about not getting the vaccine and now they have already been out of work sick for days OR they choose to come to work anyway because they have no common sense and don't want to use their time or take days off without pay (if they are new to the job). Not eveyone uses common sense and stays home when they are sick and then they can infect others.

Hope that clarifies what I was talking about.

CuriousMe · Nov 8, 2009

Areyou talking about the time that the flu virus is dormant?

??? I don't know about dormant, but 1-2 days before symptoms appear the person is contagious.

MissBrittanyRN · Nov 8, 2009

Ha there is no mandatory shot. If you want to refuse, fine. You just can't come to work...Fine. Your choice. Not fair? Neither is life. I know that sounds immature and negative, and I am sure I will be feeling the heat from posters responding to this, but there is always going to be some criteria that an employee has to meet to be eligable for employment. I can't afford to be out of work either, and I would not be happy if I have to a) risk my job or b) risk my health. If I felt strongly about someone who was forcing something on me that I did not trust, I would walk away. It's all in one's comfort level and priorities.

lamazeteacher · Nov 8, 2009

but i don't blindly trust the pharmaceutical companies nor their regulating agencies--they've had to recall too many medications they said were "safe"; usually after a lot of people died. can you think/research any recalled drug that caused many deaths in those taking it, in this country? i know there have been untoward side effects that exacerbated some peoples' other diagnoses, but other than the vaccine debacle in 1977 i haven't heard of lethal effects, unless the prescriber was unaware of a condition - such as egg allergy with a vaccine that made it dangerous for an individual to have that. certainly digoxin is the most well known of drugs with dangerous repercussions (if the patient's pulse rate is under 60). if a patient took it not as prescribed, yes, it would be dangerous.....there are lawsuits right now because the pharmaceutical companies hid harmful side effects from those regulating agencies and the public. some fda officials are monetarily tied to those pharma companies. usually those drugs were teratogenicthere are crooks everywhere.....even in governmentwho changed its definition of a pandemic--from causing a lot of deaths everywhere to just being widespread. they admit that they sometimes mix other vaccinations (for diseases that haven't been around in a while to vaccinate against them, too) with the yearly flu shots without our knowledge. that can happen in the military, where people turn into "military issue" we take what's been made available and deemed to be known and safe. if you don't keep up on the internet with what's in a vaccine you are getting......is that the fault of another if you didn't know what you were given? (not if serious repercussions happen, as that indicates unsafe vaccine has been added, but i can't think of when one was slipped in, just to befuddle people. why do they insist on using mercury and aluminum-based adjuvents in much higher doses than the safety recommendations of the fda, known toxins to the human body? "they" don't. aluminum is in antipersperangt, listed in the small print as an ingredient, it's never been in vaccines, while formaldahyde was in the 1950s version of polio vaccine.it's odd that people refer to a dose of mercury, as no "dose" (harmful or otherwise) has been given for it. yes, minute quantities are in thimersol additives, but you can request thimersol free products, though it could take longer for availability of that. why have they (who? - not who) stockpiled squalene to mix in the shots--something normal around your nerves, but injected can cause your body to form antibodies against the normal squalene in your body causing ms-like diseases."they" don't. at another thread about h1n1 there is an excellent post about that. thankfully, the us won't let them use it (there's that us and them terminology again, which implies they're out to get us paranoia--unless an emergency use authorization is issued, but europe uses it. doesn't that make you feel a little more secure about your government?
so i'd like to know why i should trust them?!? they aren't in the business of killing americans. they are in the business of improving our lives, and pay a lot of your tax dollars to prevent disease...this is not a test or a call to arms to "stand up for the mission." it's about being politically correct and the control of others. nowadays, it's pc to say the government and i think that's bad for you, so you can't have or do that--or we'll raise the taxes on that. just think how much more it's going to cost you to have insurance companies with their highly paid execs, doctors, etc. on their budgets! the government and i think this is good for you, so we're making it mandatory for you to do this. the government isn't making it mandatory, (except before when new york state panicked) your employer and/or school make it mandatory. the orders of the amount of h1n1 vaccine have less of it than there are people living here legally.as long as we're americans, we should have the choices and freedom of all americans--no matter what we do for a living, and it should be illegal for employers to mandate differently.

is it presumably "legal" to expose very ill hospitalized patients to contagious (not immunized) nurses who could give them a flu that might kill them? i sure hope no ob would hire someone with your views.....

here's where we differ. i believe that firefighters shouldn't be hemiplegic as they wouldn't be able to climb ladders to save people from burning buildings. i think that mentally ill military psychiatrists whose mental health was previously doubtful, called "loose canons" by their co-workers, shouldn't be outpatients, because they might shoot up their base some day.

i'd prefer to have a nurse care for me in hospital, who wasn't likely to carry h1n1 to me (i'm not at high risk as i'm retired, so i haven't gotten the vaccine). i was recently (well, in april '09) hospitalized and saw that my nurse didn't ever wash her hands or change gloves coming in or out of my room. i reported that to the nurse manager after i told her my observations, and she (a r.n.) said, "i never touch anything without gloves on". i called for the ic nurse, and was told that she came to my room, but i wasn't there (i was walking in the hall). no other attempt was made to talk to me (an ic nurse earlier in my life, in the '90s). so i went to risk management after i was discharged....... they made no report. i vowed never to set foot in that hospital again.

going right along with that, is my belief that health care workers/providers shouldn't work with patients unless they are contagious disease free (up to date on all vaccinations), which it isn't feasibly possible to evaluate unless they wear a sign saying something like, "i'm not vaccionated against h1n1 flu, and proud of that". they could be tested for h1n1 and other diseases which they have no protection against, many times a day, while they're feeling fine or a little sick. then until the results are known they'd need to stay away from patients, behind closed doors.

so if you've chosen freely to be a health care worker, have the darn vaccine and don't whine about being "made" to do it. or you're "free" to go into other work until this blows over and all vaccine preventable contageous diseases are non existant in this country, unless you go elsewhere, of course (where polio, rubella, rubeola, varicella, smallpox, yellow fever, malaria and on and on, still hang around) because others did it for you! geez!!

tshores · Nov 8, 2009

Not taking a vaccination has absolutely nothing to do with washing hands and changing gloves and paraplegic firemen.

I did NOT say the government was making the vaccine mandatory; I was making statements (granted, probably unclear statements) about how people are trying to shove their views down everyone else's throat.

If you aren't aware of the many drugs that have been recalled, I can't help you.

There ARE aluminum-based adjuvents in vaccines, and NO mercury would be much better. They may not be out to kill us, but pharmaceutical companies are out to make the big bucks as cheaply as they can, sometimes at our risk. That's a fact.

The bottom line is that YOU are the one making excuses not to get vaccinated. You're the one who is trying to get everyone else to do it for you. If you're so concerned, you're absolutely free to take it yourself--then you won't have any cause for worry when you're in the hospital.

lamazeteacher · Nov 9, 2009

"If you're so concerned, you're absolutely free to take it yourself--then you won't have any cause for worry when you're in the hospital." quote from tshore's post # 172

I will take the H1N1 vaccine, even though it is presumed that I had that flu shortly following taking the seasonal flu vaccine. No test was done, as that has been stopped and any case with s/s of flu is considered H1N1. Since the test turns positive only after 2-4 days of s/s and Tamiflu must be given in the first 48 hours with s/s, I took the Tamiflu (which if you wanted to be argumentative, might be said to have deprived you of it, since few doses are left). Hopefully having that flu may have made me immune to it, but after the high risk folks have it, I will. I'm 70, and considered at low risk.

I looked up the use of aluminum in vaccines, finding that it was an adjuvant in the '30s and not allowed in vaccines today.

Here's a quote from BioPharm International's article about that:

"

"A major bottleneck in vaccine development is the lack of suitable adjuvants for adult and pediatric prophylactic vaccine use. Aluminum salts were introduced for human use in the 1930s when the regulatory environment was less stringent. The desire for new and improved adjuvants stems not only from the need to make existing inactivated vaccines more potent, but also to gain features such as antigen-sparing ability, more rapid seroprotection, stimulation of T-cell immunity, and longer-lasting protective immunity. Significant regulatory and other hurdles exist for developing new adjuvants, as evidenced by the complete absence of new FDA-approved adjuvants"

You're right about the main goal of pharmaceutical manufacturers averice for money. I deplore that, and believe that the Health Care Reform bill will take care of some of that, if only politicians will keep their hands off the money offered them by execs of those companies....

tshores · Nov 9, 2009

Proof of present-day use of aluminum-based adjuvants in vaccines just so you know:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17201666

http://www.reeis.usda.gov/web/crisprojectpages/195042.html

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vaccine_components_detail.cfv?id=61

And, yes, the politicians are rewarded very well for helping the pharmaceutical companies. The big shots in the FDA who own shares in some of the pharma companies--the same big shots who decide the safety and efficacy of our medicine--don't do too shabby either.

I'm glad you took the Tamiflu and hope you're ok now.

indigo girl · Nov 9, 2009

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vaccine_components_detail.cfv?id=61

Thanks for providing this link!

It is interesting to note that the influenza vaccines do not contain aluminium salts, and there are also the thimerosal free versions as well.

inactivated Polio Virus (IPV) vaccine, measles, mumps and rubella vaccine (MMR), varicella vaccine, Meningococcal conjugate (MCV4) vaccine, and influenza vaccines do not contain aluminum salts. (2)

mombuxx · Nov 9, 2009

No, I don't believe they should be mandatory. What I do think should be mandatory is the ED's sending these patients HOME to recover instead of admitting them! "Go home, drink gatorade, cover your mouth, wash your hands, and put down the cigarette!" That's why you can't breathe:D Instead the doc's admit them so they can infect every employee and other patients who are there with severe illness, post-chemo complications, post-ops. You get it?!?!?

DDdove, LPN · Nov 10, 2009

"You might be a student, but you're also an adult, and this would be one of those times in which you can't just complain to someone else (who is not involved) and expect you're now done with the situation. In fact, at the time you got the shot, you were told that if you had any adverse reactions you were to report them to the office where you got the shot. So whose fault is it if numbers aren't accurate?"

First of all at the time I was not a student nurse at the time. Second of all I did report to the office , and the nurse there stated her opinion(sarcastically) about not getting the flu from the shot (never mentioning about possible side effects stated by the CDC or taking time to address my concerns). As a nurse I will take my patients concerns as real. I know that was not a live virus, I know about side effects that a person may develop from it. My point was reporting side effects are important to the CDC. And it is not the person who feels they have developed the side effects place to contact the CDC, it is the responsibility of the health professionals. And you as a nurse should know if someone has a comment (even if you do not agree) to not belittle them for their views. You are a teacher, you should reply to peoples concerns with respect.

Pfiesty · Nov 10, 2009

lamaze teacher wrote "[color=#00bfff]can you think/research any recalled drug that caused many deaths in those taking it, in this country?"

des (diethylstilbestrol) comes to mind. des causes gynecological cancers including cervical cancer. which the vaccines now would not, could not prevent since it is not a virus, but a medication given to pregant women. but the vaccine manufacturers of today are using those cervical cancer numbers in the fear-mongering campaigns of cervical cancer cases. what they are not saying in the commercials is the number of those cases caused by something other than the viruses. shameful.

from the cdc's website: "des daughters were 40 times more likely than women in the general population to develop cca."

but your comment was about recalled medications. des is now reported (in peer reviewed medical journals) to be associated with increased rates of breast cancer too.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Nov 10, 2009

"You might be a student, but you're also an adult, and this would be one of those times in which you can't just complain to someone else (who is not involved) and expect you're now done with the situation. In fact, at the time you got the shot, you were told that if you had any adverse reactions you were to report them to the office where you got the shot. So whose fault is it if numbers aren't accurate?"
First of all at the time I was not a student nurse at the time. Second of all I did report to the office , and the nurse there stated her opinion(sarcastically) about not getting the flu from the shot (never mentioning about possible side effects stated by the CDC or taking time to address my concerns). As a nurse I will take my patients concerns as real. I know that was not a live virus, I know about side effects that a person may develop from it. My point was reporting side effects are important to the CDC. And it is not the person who feels they have developed the side effects place to contact the CDC, it is the responsibility of the health professionals. And you as a nurse should know if someone has a comment (even if you do not agree) to not belittle them for their views. You are a teacher, you should reply to peoples concerns with respect.

???I didn't belittle you, I spoke in frustration for your "passing the buck" post. What you say here is not what you originally posted, and THAT is what I responded to. Disrespect wasn't in the post, irritation at your original statement was. Whether you were a student or not was irrelevant, as being an adult vs being a minor was the point. You said you "mentioned it to" nurses. Which ones? Where? Where you were a student? You didn't say, it was only implied as you ARE a student now. You did not say you had reported it properly. Huge difference, and clarifying to the point of changing what you said obviously can change responses to it.

BTW, I am not a teacher, beyond the teaching we nurses do with our patients every day. So I don't know where you get that from. Not sure who you think I am. I treat people's concerns with respect; I disrespect the idea that whatever happens to people is always someone else's fault, as your original post implied.