Flu Vaccine, enough already!

psu_213, BSN, RN · Dec 14, 2011

I most certainly do have that freedom. Please show me the law to the contrary.

You most cetainly do NOT have the right to yell Fire in a crowded theatre. You do NOT have the right to say that you want someone to commit an act of violence against another. You do NOT have the right to protest whenever and where ever you want (for example, abortion clinics...no, I am not saying you would anyway). The First Amemdment is not open license to say anything you want whenever you want. That has been consistenly decided by the Supreme Court.

psu_213, BSN, RN · Dec 14, 2011

A lot of people on here have said that they have the right to refuse a flu shot because no one can tell that what to put into their body. Yet, facilities continue to mandate that all their employees get the flu shot or risk various forms of punishment. If this practice was someone a violation of fundamental rights, at this point would someone have not made a successful argument that the facility was wrong (Consitutionally or otherwise) in mandating the shot? In other words, it seems to me that there is not a right to refuse the flu shot (or similar protection...mask for example).

And please don't say "I can refuse because this is a free country." While we have many freedoms, there are restrictions on basically all those freedoms, so, a blanket idiom lik "free country" means nothing (sorry for the mini rant...).

Anne36, LPN · Dec 14, 2011

psu, You say, " If this practice was someone a violation of fundamental rights, at this point would someone have not made a successful argument that the facility was wrong (Consitutionally or otherwise) in mandating the shot?" Are you kidding me? You dont think that injustice is done everyday in this country? How in the heck do you think that LEO were able to unlawfully confiscate weapons from law abiding citizens during Hurricane Katrina?

Can you just hear someone making the same exact arguement you just made back in 1860 to justify slavery? It's okay because a Judge has not overturned the practise in a court of law?

I wonder how long it will be before the patients are forced to get the flu shot to be admitted for care in the hospital because they might endanger other patients? Hmm.........

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · Dec 14, 2011

In other words, it seems to me that there is not a right to refuse the flu shot (or similar protection...mask for example).

Of course there is a right to refuse. No facility will ever give a flu shot in the face of that refusal. But in the face of that refusal, there may be consequences. Unlike the right to refuse medical interventions, no one has a right to work at a certain facility.

psu_213, BSN, RN · Dec 14, 2011

psu, You say, " If this practice was someone a violation of fundamental rights, at this point would someone have not made a successful argument that the facility was wrong (Consitutionally or otherwise) in mandating the shot?" Are you kidding me? You dont think that injustice is done everyday in this country? How in the heck do you think that LEO were able to unlawfully confiscate weapons from law abiding citizens during Hurricane Katrina?
Can you just hear someone making the same exact arguement you just made back in 1860 to justify slavery? It's okay because a Judge has not overturned the practise in a court of law?
I wonder how long it will be before the patients are forced to get the flu shot to be admitted for care in the hospital because they might endanger other patients? Hmm.........

You're twisting my words here. I was saying that my guess is someone has tried to fight the 'mandatory' flu shot policies in the past, but they have been unsucessful. This does not mean that mandatory vaccination is morally right (infact, my original post was totally neutral on the morality of the issue, but you chose to ignore that to go for the shock value); I was just saying it is legally justified at this point--maybe someday that will change.

Secondly, how can you possible compare mandatory flu vaccines to slavery or other social injustices? I suppose they both have the same underlying principle (forcing someone to do something against their will), but there is absolutely no way that you can take a statement on the flu shot and somehow say this is similar to advocating violations of basic human rights.

psu_213, BSN, RN · Dec 14, 2011

Of course there is a right to refuse. No facility will ever give a flu shot in the face of that refusal. But in the face of that refusal, there may be consequences. Unlike the right to refuse medical interventions, no one has a right to work at a certain facility.

I should have been more clear...their is not a right to refuse while not facing repercussions.

notpuurfctbtgdenghns · Jan 3, 2012

Yes, we are in flu season. And it seems you can't go anywhere without being bombarded/enticed to get the flu vaccine. A lot of times scare tactics are used also. They tried making it mandatory for nurses last season but that failed, thank goodness. Then a friend went to a job interview, and a condition of employment was that she had to get the flu vaccine even though she did not want it.
Yet recently, a healthcare employer (I have declined to identify) went as far as to offer employees who get the flu vaccine (at work), entry into a raffle for a hot electronic gadget. I just think its too much. People already know about the flu vaccine and have made an educated decision about whether they want it or not. Flu vaccines have become extremely commercialized, which leads me to conclude that a financial windfall is being made somewhere. Just sayin...

The CDC recommendation to fight against flu is for us to get flu vaccine every year. We are nurses, it is only natural that we and our loved ones need to be vaccinated with flu injection. We should not be against this measure unless we develop live threatening reaction to the shot.

notpuurfctbtgdenghns · Jan 3, 2012

Dec 12, '11 by Nurse Nessa Wooer Dec 12, '11 by Nurse Nessa I've been a member since May '06. I'm from 'Minneapolis, Minnesota'. I have Since 2006 year(s) of nursing experience and I specialize in 'Hemodialysis'.

Age: 31

Awards:

I haven't finished reading all posts yet, but I just wanted to say one thing...We are nurses because we want to take care of and protect our patients, if we do not get vaccinated we put them at risk. I didn't become a nurse to put my patients at risk...did you?

This post sounds it is coming from someone caring--caring for her/his patients. Also for those who oppose flu vaccine, flu is not like a cold; it could come rather suddenly. So if you happen to visit your loved ones over night, on Holiday season, and suddenly you have a run and you throw-up at the same time you become your relative's patient. And .....if your loved one does not get flu from you, you are so lucky. If your relative finds out you visited her/him and you had not had flu vaccine, he/she can say "Do not ever come and visit again, unless you are willing to get flu injection!"

For those who are against or not convinced about taking flu vaccine please go to CDC website on this subject.

jimthorp · Jan 5, 2012

Dec 12, '11 by Nurse Nessa Wooer Dec 12, '11 by Nurse Nessa I've been a member since May '06. I'm from 'Minneapolis, Minnesota'. I have Since 2006 year(s) of nursing experience and I specialize in 'Hemodialysis'.
Age: 31
Awards:
I haven't finished reading all posts yet, but I just wanted to say one thing...We are nurses because we want to take care of and protect our patients, if we do not get vaccinated we put them at risk. I didn't become a nurse to put my patients at risk...did you?

You can still pass on the flu even if you are vaccinated.

ninigo · Jan 6, 2012

This whole approach to FORCING healthcare workers to get flu vaccinations is taking a scary turn against our right to autonomy. I was a person who used to believe in vaccinations until I had a horrible experience a little over 1 year ago with a Hep A/B. Within 48 hours of my vaccination, I ended up with a throat tickle that turned into swallowing issues. A few days after that, I ended up with severe tinnitus...so bad that it almost made me drop out of the nursing program. I had to re-train myself to study outside and ignore the noise that just would not go away. The sound was so piercing in the beginning that I was in a fetal position crying and hoping that it would go away. A week after that, my body started having muscle tremors and twitching. Well, that was October of 2010, and I still have the tinnitus, swallowing problems and muscle twitching. Furthermore, my GFR was down to 58, but it is finally back to over 100.

Now, THEY say that there is not enough of any ingredient (i.e. thimerosal, neomycin, etc.) to do harm. However, there are certain individuals who are sensitive to these ingredients. Any chemist would tell one that even the smallest amount of mercury can do big damage to a neuron. Plus, we all know that aminoglycosides are oto and nephrotoxic.When I read the prescribing package insert on the HEP vaccination, I saw that my symptoms were documented side effects, but I was part of the 1%. Well, don't the 1% count at all?

It seems that individuals who have strong opinions against vaccinations end up being judged as as ignorant. It's difficult to find medical proof against vaccinations because there is poor follow up with VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting). I filed a VAERS form after the HEP vaccination, and all they do is call your doctor (who will tell them it is a coincidence that all of these symptoms suddenly appeared after the vaccination) and then send you a letter 1 year later to see if you are still experiencing the symptoms. That is it!

I just graduated and am SCARED TO DEATH to put anything in my body like a FLU SHOT that contain things like mercury, formaldehyde, etc. Oh, and what about the aluminum that is meant to stimulate the immune response? Last time I checked aluminum was found in the brain of Alzheimers patients...how does it get there???...deoderants containing aluminum, flu shots, environmental exposure??? (that is food for thought). The bottom line is that we are being bombarded by environmental toxins every day without even realizing it, so why can't we have a choice as to whether or not we want to toxify ourselvers more?

I don't know what the answer is, but I think more research has to be done in following those individuals that have adverse outcomes to these vaccinations.

Oh, and as a fun fact: the TWINRIX prescribing information insert states "TWINRIX has not been evaluated for its carcinogenic potential, mutagenic potential, or potential for impairment of fetility."

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · Jan 7, 2012

This whole approach to FORCING healthcare workers to get flu vaccinations is taking a scary turn against our right to autonomy.

No health care worker has EVER been "FORCED" to get a flu shot, or any other shot for that matter, and asserting it is so is disingenuous. No one has ever taken away your autonomy as it relates to the right to refuse a vaccination. You always, always, always have the right to refuse having any substance injected into your body. Employers may make it a condition of employment, but they will never force you to have it. They can stipulate that you are to wear purple scrubs, have a bachelor's degree, ACLS certification, and so on, but they will never be able to "force" you to do it. Just like a vaccination, you can say NO and move on to a facility or profession which does not impose that condition of employment.

ninigo · Jan 7, 2012

Thanks for your insight and opinion. If getting a flu vaccination is a condition of employment, then it a form of "strong arming". I got all of my 3 HEP vaccinations and a flu shot for 2010. The 3rd Hep shot did me in. So, now that I limped my way through my final semester of nursing school, I am supposed to limit my practice setting? I care about my patients very much and wear a mask, but what about educating them on all the possible adverse effects of vaccinations? I think that those who have bad reactions should be followed, so the pharmaceutical companies have a better understanding of how the product may affect some people. Patients can also be harmed by the vaccination itself not just from a healthcare worker not being vaccinated.