RN's rarely scrub?? - page 3

I don't think being a RN in the OR is what I thought it was. I always thought one RN scrubbed, and then there was also another RN that was the circulating nurse. This is not so? Surgical Techs now do... Read More

  1. by   mikethern
    Quote from ewattsjt
    "
    i would have to disagree with you on that one. it depends on what case is being scrubbed. most the rns where i work would have problems with some of the bigger procedures (because they don't scrub them). i did a spine case the other day where we had 13 pans of our instruments, 16 pans of reps instruments and another 9 pans of a back up system from another company. both reps were late.

    given training on this, yes, an rn can do it. within the same token given training on circulating a tech could do it too. let's face it; most of what an rn does in surgery is learned on the job unless they were a nap.
    well, as an rn who has lots of scrubbing and circulating experience, i can tell you that overall, scrubbing is a lot easier than circulating. a scrub person only needs to worry about one task. a circulator is juggling 10 tasks at the same time. if scrub techs earned as much as rn's, i would let my nursing license expire and scrub all the time.
  2. by   subee
    Quote from ewattsjt
    "nobody seriously thinks scrubbing is the more technically challenging position."

    so you would belittle the scrub position in the same manor?

    i would have to disagree with you on that one. it depends on what case is being scrubbed. most the rns where i work would have problems with some of the bigger procedures (because they don't scrub them). i did a spine case the other day where we had 13 pans of our instruments, 16 pans of reps instruments and another 9 pans of a back up system from another company. both reps were late.

    given training on this, yes, an rn can do it. within the same token given training on circulating a tech could do it too. let's face it; most of what an rn does in surgery is learned on the job unless they were a nap.

    it is two specific jobs that each role is trained specifically for. as i said before, we shouldn't demean each other. the patient outcome is what we both strive for.

    wait a minute here... i'm not (at least me) in any way demeaning scrubbing by saying that its not nursing. its just different and requires a different set of skills than nursing. everyone in the or knows what a bummer it is when the circulator has to run in and out of the room because things aren't there. i'm also saying that or "nursing" is so different from other nursing that its not even nursing. i think that or "nursing" requires a different set of skills and that new grads and anyone else is coming into the or with no skills that are useful in an or. why does the institution have to train these people? how can we know that they're all learning comprable skills in different or settings? their educations need to be standardized because there is too much to know that could be done at the undergraduate level insteading of attempting to cram it in on the job under less than ideal learning circumstances. this is not demeaning to nursing. its just acknowledging that patients deserve someone specifically trained in or skills particular to the or.
  3. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from subee
    Yes, but that was in the old days when nursing consisted of following doctor's orders and wearing white caps. What are you doing when you're scrubbing that is any act of nursing as defined by your state practice act? What principles of science or nursing are you applying in scrubbing that are particularly attributed to nursing? What quantitative declines have you noticed in patient care since scrub techs began handing instruments over?
    I believe that our "opinions" should be based on evidence and evidence only. I'm willing to be proven wrong.
    I, for one, do not have the Napoleon complex, though (IOW something to prove).
  4. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    When did this become stupid? How can you be a "team" if you want to try to belittle your co-workers? Each role in surgery has its pros and cons. Each has its specific duties that ensure the best outcome for the patient. Just because one role is not your cup of tea, it does not mean it is anything less than a great service to the patient.

    This is the bottom line!
  5. by   ewattsjt
    Sorry subee, I misunderstood your meaning. I do agree with that.
  6. by   90021nurse
    deleted due to duplicate post
    Last edit by 90021nurse on Apr 4, '07 : Reason: duplicate post
  7. by   90021nurse
    Quote from anotherneonurse
    Hmmm, gues I was trying to give 90021nurse the bennefit of the doubt when I assumed that by stupidity he/she was refering to the way the circulator gets jerked around where as the scrub gets to just stand there and do their job. Obviously that's not how most people took it. For me I would way rather scrub than circulate if it paid the same but it generally does not. Lets be honest here, nurses like scrubbing because its easier than what they normally have to deal with. Scrub techs wanna be RNs for better pay and maybe a little more respect. Nobody seriously thinks scrubbing is the more technically challenging position.
    I don't know why I need to be given the benefit of the doubt. I didn't write the post which referred to stupidity. I simply was quoting Subee's post and saying I was offended by the choice of words. Go back to post #9 and re-read the original statement and see that I did not write the original message you are referring to.....just responding to it as I interpreted it.
  8. by   subee
    Quote from Marie_LPN
    I, for one, do not have the Napoleon complex, though (IOW something to prove).

    Can we keep this an intellectual debate and not resort to name calling? Geez, whatever happened to a good, old-fashioned debate?
  9. by   dheanna06
    [font=fixedsys]geesshhh..pity...i really wanted to be a scrub nurse...rather than the circulating...i mean i wanna put into use what i have learned thru my med-surg......
  10. by   90021nurse
    Me too....since I graduated from nursing school in '91 after haveing been a scrub tech for almost 10 years........I can count on 1 hand the times I have gotten to scrub. About a week ago the OR I work at was short-handed and I got to scrub a lumbar decompression---first time in 20 years! I was so proud of myself that I could still do it and got compliments from the surgeon and first assistant. I wish I had more opportunities to scrub and several of my coworkers feel the same way.
    Times have changed .....back in the old days.....nurses spent 3 months in the OR! 3 months learning to scrub and circulate. I know this is true because my cousin, who is a 70 year old retired RN was one of those nurses taught back in the day that nurses really got more hands-on experience. I think when diploma nursing programs were phased out in favor of college degree programs (ADN and BSN) we gained one thing but lost another. Although I feel that nursing has benefitted from becoming a degreed profession and less of a "trade", we are now having to fight to maintain a foothold to stay in the OR at all. The AORN and AST are at opposite ends of the spectrum with one group pushing to maintain RN's as the only group who can circulate. Yet the Association of Surgical Technologists are very politically active and not at all in aggreeement with the AORN that a scrub tech cannot circulate alone. This rivalry, IMHO, just makes it more difficult for nurses to get opportunities to scrub.
    Had the pay not been double what I was making as a tech at the time, I probably wouldn't have chosen the nursing school route. However at that time (late '80's) I was a scrub tech on an open heart team and was teaching nurses how to scrub and felt, in the long run I would have more job security if I became a nurse. What I have found is that yes, I can always get a job circulating........however finding a nurse manager who supports my desire to scrub, gives me opportunities when I ask to scrub has been dissapointingly difficult. My goal is to become an RNFA however where I now work I see it will be an uphill battle and I may go to another hospital that is more progressive. While many hospitals in my area (SW US) have RNFA's on their staff, the one I work at hasn't accepted the idea and the only opportunities for a surgery nurse is to circulate.
  11. by   Deliasgone
    If they are eliminating RN scrub, how will you be able to become a first assist? I thought you had to have multiple years of both circulating and scrub experience to become a RN first assist. Will that be a thing of the past, too?
  12. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from subee
    Can we keep this an intellectual debate and not resort to name calling? Geez, whatever happened to a good, old-fashioned debate?

    I did not call anyone any names.
  13. by   callbabe
    Quote from beachbum3
    I don't think being a RN in the OR is what I thought it was. I always thought one RN scrubbed, and then there was also another RN that was the circulating nurse. This is not so? Surgical Techs now do the scrubbing? This is true everywhere?
    NO IT IS NOT I HAVE BEEN A NURSE FOR SOME 33 YEARS AND I HAVE BEEN SCRUBBING FOR EVERY ONE OF THESE. I HAVE CIRCULATED TO OVER THE YEARS, BUT NOW 65% OF MY TIME IS SCRUBBING. 50% OF THAT I AM WORKING AS AN RNFA FOR A GENERAL SURG GROUP/ AND I ALSO WORK FOR A GYN/ONCOLOGIST
    WE DO HAVE ALOT OF CSTs THAT ARE GREAT, SOME PRIVATELY EMPLOYED PAs. SEVERAL OF OUR RNs SCRUB IT MAKE THEM MORE FLEXIBLE.

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