The Circumcision Discussion - page 53
I know this can be a HUGE debate, and I'm not looking to start any arguments. I was just wondering as you are OB nurses. I'm expecting a boy in July and not sure if we should circ. or not. My... Read More
Nov 7, '07Quote from TheCommuterThat is an unfair thing to say. My husband is not circed and he keeps himself very clean. My husband is also faithful, so no risk of STD's.Circumcision is barbaric in your opinion only. In my opinion, circumcision is safe, more sanitary in the long run, facilitates easier urogenital cleaning, and reduces the risk of contracting sexually transmitted diseases when the baby boy grows into a sexually-active adult male. I don't know about you, but I certainly think that smegma is nasty, smelly, and unappetizing. Uncircumcized males produce plenty of this smegma, whereas the circumcized men don't.
You just have to teach a boy to clean himself when he's of the right age. Just like I have had to teach my daughters how to keep themselves clean. If we had had boys we definitely would not have circed them. It IS barbaric. Why ban female circ and not male circ? Both are done for much the same reason.
Why put a child through the risk of problems from that procedure? I know of two children personally whose circs were botched. One had to go back to get it fixed a few months later, as best as they could. The doctor who did the repair said he repaired 4-5 a week. I dated a man who had a botched circ and it caused him discomfort and embarrassment, not to mention lack of feeling. Why take the risk?Last edit by AmericanChai on Nov 7, '07
Nov 7, '07I wouldn't have had my boys circ'd but it was dad who insisted.
Both my adult boys have told me that they are glad I did have them circ'd and they would be so mad at me if I hadn't.
I've never seen a circ'd boy have trouble nursing. Usually they latch right on afterwards. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen - just not my experience.
I try to take the babies when they are asleep - and keep them sleeping. Usually they are sucking on a pacifier and quiet prior to the circ starting. They will cry at the lidocaine injection but then go back to sleep while we wait for the numbing to occur.
We need to ask the gentleman who posted earlier about his circ as an adult whether he lost sensitivity.
Nov 7, '07Quote from AmericanChaiWhy ban female circ and not male circ? Both are done for much the same reason.
That is totally different!!! Female circumcision/mutilation is done for different reasons. No matter what your perspective is on male circumcision it is basically a cultural choice with little to no medical/psychological consequences. Female mutilation is often done on older girls/women w/o sedation by untrained providers, and in most cases to reduce the female's potential sexual pleasure. Male circumcision is basically done for hygiene, STD transmission reduction, religous, cultural, and/or pyschological reasons (appearance sake).
Nov 7, '07i'm not circumcised, but sometimes I wish I was. i don't know if my parents elected not to or if it was because of my heart condition. I keep myself clean, but it seems like when it gets hot, the heat irritates the foreskin-and its aggravating.
Nov 7, '07Quote from wtbcrnaThere are lots of things people can do to infants that they won't remember, but that doesn't make it ok.No...that is one procedure that should be done when your infant and you can't remember.
Nov 7, '07Quote from Arwen_UThis circ thread is taking off like all the others . . . . . :spin:There are lots of things people can do to infants that they won't remember, but that doesn't make it ok.
My argument to my husband when preggers with our 1st child, when he used the argument that the baby wouldn't remember the pain was that then it would be ok to burn the baby with a lit cigarette.
That sorta made him mad . . he had no answer for it though.
Nov 7, '07Quote from wtbcrnaNo, it's not totally different.That is totally different!!! Female circumcision/mutilation is done for different reasons. No matter what your perspective is on male circumcision it is basically a cultural choice with little to no medical/psychological consequences. Female mutilation is often done on older girls/women w/o sedation by untrained providers, and in most cases to reduce the female's potential sexual pleasure. Male circumcision is basically done for hygiene, STD transmission reduction, religous, cultural, and/or pyschological reasons (appearance sake).
There are varying degrees of female genital cutting - from just a small pinprick in the labia or clitoris to complete excision of the clitoris, labia minora, and infibulation of the labia majora. In embryonic development, the clitoris is analogous to the glans penis - the 'head', if you will. Ok. So, then, cutting off the foreskin is analagous to removal of the clitoral sheath. They are the same embryonically.
I just read a book on female genital cutting - very well written, by Alice Walker, the author of The Color Purple. She traveled to Africa and interviewed women who'd been cut, the women who did the cutting, and Muslim imams. And you know what? The reasons people gave for cutting their girls were the exact same reasons that people give for cutting their boys. Hygeine - people mistakenly think that woman who's been cut has cleaner genitalia than an uncut woman. Sound familiar? Some mothers said, "I was cut, and I'll have my daughters cut too." "I don't want them to be embarassed." The book is called Warrior Marks and it is very interesting (and shocking).
So, wtbcrna, if you're a doc and a patient of yours wants his/her baby girl to be taken to the procedure room, under local anesthesia, everything sterile, to have a pinprick made in her labia or clitoris, you will say ok? Because the arguments you gave against FGC are unsanitary conditions, untrained providers, and reduction in sexual pleasure. Remove all those arguments, and it then becomes ok? I'm having a really hard time buying that it then becomes ok.
And, have you ever seen a botched circ? Oh yes, there are physical consequences.
ETA: I know what you mean, Steph. And, where is the OP?
Nov 7, '07Quote from wtbcrnaThat is why female circ is done, too, minus the STD reason. Yes, male circ is usually done in a clinical setting with pain meds (I hope!) but in the same countries that do female circ, the males are circed in a similar fashion. They do not usually go to hospital but are circed using unclean instruments and no pain killer. Most males in those countries who are circed for cultural or religious reasons are circed when they are much older, usually age 6-12.Male circumcision is basically done for hygiene, STD transmission reduction, religous, cultural, and/or pyschological reasons (appearance sake).
This comment is not directed at you, but at the "general public". A male is born with nothing wrong with him. There is nothing wrong with the appearance of an intact male. I am upset that even in my A&P textbook and the class models the males are circed. I don't think that people in this culture even know what a natural male looks like, so it looks weird to them. It's like my daughter's g-tube. She's had it since she was a baby. Recently we were at a playground and another child had lifted his shirt (a toddler) and I was looking at him because something was odd about his stomach but I couldn't place it. Finally I realized-- he didn't have a tube! I'm so used to seeing a toddler tummy with a tube. It's funny what you get used to as normal, huh?Last edit by AmericanChai on Nov 7, '07
Nov 7, '07Quote from stevielynnWell . . .. THAT didn't work.
Nov 7, '07Basically it comes down to choice.
I'm glad my parents did it to me. Is it barbaric? I don't think so. Am I happy? Of course.
But the thing is, ask all the guys who have been circ'd, if they wish they hadn't versus those who haven't been circ'd and wish they had me, you'd find that the results were very different.
My children will be circ'd, both my wife and I agree.
I been present for a briss (Jewish ceremony for circ) and also saw it done in the nursery. It's done the same way, just at a different age and we're talking about 6 days or so.
Barbaric, maybe (not to me though). Purely someone's personal opinion, yes.
Nov 7, '07Quote from Arwen_UMy husband is circumsized and I still want him to wash himself before anything goes on.4) The hygiene argument is a really non-applicable one, especially in the era of soap and water. Either way you have to wash down there, right? It is not that difficult to retract a foreskin, wash & rinse under it, and put it back. If it is, maybe you ought to invest in a protein shake or something. And you really don't even have to do that til the darn thing goes back on its own, which may not be for several years. Believe me, a 3-year-old can do it. My 3-year-old does.
My 9 y/o son was circ'ed against my better judgement (my husband decided he wanted it) and I wish I had been more adamant about not having it done.
My four month old, I did not have him cut and I'm glad he's natural.
I have even read of men who are circumsized trying to recreate a foreskin. Seems to be so many viewpoints on it.
Nov 7, '07I'm not necessarily for or against circumcision, but I can't help but wonder, how many of you think piercing a baby girl's ears is barbaric??
Nov 7, '07Quote from bhope2006Not barbaric, but I would never dream of doing it. I think of it as a coming of age rite for a young lady of around 13 who has the ability to care for her ears herself and is motivated to do so.I'm not necessarily for or against circumcision, but I can't help but wonder, how many of you think piercing a baby girl's ears is barbaric??