The Circumcision Discussion - page 52

I know this can be a HUGE debate, and I'm not looking to start any arguments. I was just wondering as you are OB nurses. I'm expecting a boy in July and not sure if we should circ. or not. My... Read More

  1. by   czyja
    Quote from wtbcrna
    Having taken of elderly men w/o circumcision I would have to say hygiene becomes a big issue for a lot of men as they get older.
    Yes, this is true. But then again elderly men may also have trouble with tying their shoes and peri-anal care.

    Are you suggesting that we should remove boys' foreskins so that when they are 90 years old it will be easier for them?:uhoh21:
  2. by   ElvishDNP
    well, some of my argument is based on my own experience.
    baby is nursing fine and all of a sudden bam! after he's circed, it can take a long time and a lot of work to get back on track. of course, it's not that way for every baby, but how in the world do you know who'll be fine and who'll fall to pieces?

    as for #1: it stands to reason that a study done on hiv transmisson would be done on adult men. not too many sexually active newborns out there....

    however, here are some references that i've found to be extremely informative and supported by research.
    http://www.cirp.org/library/
    [color=#6699cc]http://www.circumcisioninfo.com/
    [color=#6699cc]http://www.nocirc.org/
    [color=#6699cc]www.jewishcircumcision.org

    i too have taken care of elderly uncircumcised men (back before i started mother/baby) and yes - there can be hygiene issues. but there's no reason why a nurse can't clean his/her patient completely. there are lots of body parts that can get funky really fast if they're not cleaned right. penises are by far not unique in that aspect.

    eta: i have also taken care of many circumcised men whose genitalia smelled to high heaven. either way, if you don't wash, you're going to have problems...
    Last edit by ElvishDNP on Nov 7, '07
  3. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from czyja
    Yes, this is true. But then again elderly men may also have trouble with tying their shoes and peri-anal care.

    Are you suggesting that we should remove boys' foreskins so that when they are 90 years old it will be easier for them?:uhoh21:
    In short...yep
    Don't get me wrong I see nothing wrong with circumicision, but I believe it is just a personal choice for the parent and the research that I have seen/been taught shows that it is best done when the child is an infant.
  4. by   jmgrn65
    Quote from wtbcrna
    Wow, interesting observations...any research to support your arguments on 1, 3, or 4? I would especially like to see any research on #3.
    Having taken of elderly men w/o circumcision I would have to say hygiene becomes a big issue for a lot of men as they get older.

    and better yet when the foreskin gets actually cuts into an erect penis, it can actually cut off the circulation. I have seen this in LTC with older confused men.
  5. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from Arwen_U
    I too have taken care of elderly uncircumcised men (back before I started mother/baby) and yes - there CAN be hygiene issues. But there's no reason why a nurse can't clean his/her patient completely. There are lots of body parts that can get funky really fast if they're not cleaned right. Penises are by far not unique in that aspect.

    ETA: I have also taken care of many circumcised men whose genitalia smelled to high heaven. Either way, if you don't wash, you're going to have problems...
    So true...
  6. by   Neveranurseagain
    A lot of MD's push circs here is the USA because they get extra $$$$$ for this elective surgery. Most insurance companies pay between $150-$225 for a circ and it is a good money maker for MD's. It would be interesting to see how many parents would still do it if it was not paid for anymore. Parents may even do a little research so they can decide for themselves whether to circ or not instead of taking the MDs recommendation.

    And for those of you who say that babes can't feel it and scream and cry just because they are restrained, try this: Take a newborn and restrain him. Leave him for 10 min and see if he crys, turns purple and is inconsolable. Most of the time not a peep comes out of him. Then compare this to a "baby with an immature neurological system who doesn't feel pain" a few mins after the circ has started and tell me this baby is not in pain. Then why is the babe screaming who is being circed?
    Last edit by Neveranurseagain on Nov 7, '07
  7. by   czyja
    Quote from wtbcrna
    I believe it is just a personal choice for the parent
    Err, and what about the boy? Should he not have the choice in the matter?
  8. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from awsmom8
    A lot of MD's push circs here is the USA because they get extra $$$$$ for this elective surgery. Most insurance companies pay between $150-$225 for a circ and it is a good money maker for MD's. It would be interesting to see how many parents would still do it if it was not paid for anymore. Parents may even do a little research so they can decide for themselves whether to circ or not instead of taking the MDs recommendation.
    Sorry, that won't argument won't work....circumcision is still done all the time in military hospitals. No extra money for the Docs there.
  9. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from czyja
    Err, and what about the boy? Should he not have the choice in the matter?
    No...that is one procedure that should be done when your infant and you can't remember.
  10. by   FireStarterRN
    Quote from gi jane
    hi, can any american nurses explain to me why new born baby boys are circumcised in usa. as a british nurse i am appauled at this barbaric behaviour. jane
    circumcision in the united states was originally encouraged to discourage masturbation.

    http://english.pravda.ru/science/hea...circumcision-0


    american cornflakes magnate john harvey kellogg (the manufacturer of kellogg's corn flakes) declared war on masturbation at the end of 19th century. being an influential politician, he sparked off an "anti-masturbation hysteria" in society. inspired by kellogg's ideas, the doctors maintained that "self-abuse may result in exhaustion, paralysis and heart diseases. because of self-abuse some people will end up losing their minds, others will commit suicide."

    (mary r. melendy, md, the ideal woman - for maidens, wives and mothers, 1903) .
    kellog decided to use circumcision for protecting protect the boys from the terrible consequences. "one can achieve good results only by means of removing a large quantity of skin and mucus from the penis. following the cicatrisation of the wounds, the skin will cover the organ tight ... which will considerably hamper masturbation or eradicate it altogether."
  11. by   PRESLA
    ] Teach them good hygiene and they will have no problems. My boys are fine uncirced.
  12. by   leslie :-D
    dang, if hygiene is dictating the logic of this thread, i suppose all big-breasted women should get a reduction.
    afterall, when we are old and saggy, it's pretty nasty to get those smelly, uncomfortable fungal infections under the breasts.
    why clean and dry, when we can opt for surgical removal?
    better yet, how 'bout all obese people getting excess abd fat removed, so they don't get the same fungal infections under the belly and inguinal areas?
    and even still, is there even a surgery that can elongate one's arm, so they can wipe their rear ends adequately?
    i've seen it where the obese cannot reach behind them when they wipe.

    i am amazed that surgical intervention would take priority over the simple act of keeping oneself clean.

    yes, i got my boys circ'd.
    dad insisted.
    but now, i am seeing the barbarism in these procedures.
    and so far, none of it makes sense.
    arwen's post, really did say it all.

    leslie
  13. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from jlsrn
    circumcision in the united states was originally encouraged to discourage masturbation.

    http://english.pravda.ru/science/hea...circumcision-0


    american cornflakes magnate john harvey kellogg (the manufacturer of kellogg's corn flakes) declared war on masturbation at the end of 19th century. being an influential politician, he sparked off an "anti-masturbation hysteria" in society. inspired by kellogg's ideas, the doctors maintained that "self-abuse may result in exhaustion, paralysis and heart diseases. because of self-abuse some people will end up losing their minds, others will commit suicide."

    (mary r. melendy, md, the ideal woman - for maidens, wives and mothers, 1903) .
    kellog decided to use circumcision for protecting protect the boys from the terrible consequences. "one can achieve good results only by means of removing a large quantity of skin and mucus from the penis. following the cicatrisation of the wounds, the skin will cover the organ tight ... which will considerably hamper masturbation or eradicate it altogether."

    well . . .. that didn't work. :d


    steph

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