partial birth abortion - page 3
THE OUTCOME of what is almost certain to be a legal battle fought all the way to Supreme Court will hinge on whether the justices accept the findings of Congress that the procedure is never medically... Read More
Mar 15, '03Originally posted by Texagain
I just wanted to say that if you have a hydrocephalic anencaphalic fetus whose head is too large to deliver (and some of you may know that the heads can grow to astounding proportions), then this proceedure would be appropriate for delivery. Why have a hysterotomy when you can have a vag?
Incidently, I do not believe the propaganda about the frequency of the proceedure, nor is the name of the proceedure a medical term, so I doubt that also. The only time I have ever heard of a proceedure remotely close to this involved a severly macerated fetus whose head separated, did not deliver, and had to be removed. Most people cannot imagine the many and horrible ways pregnancies can and do go wrong.
Personally, I don't like congress deciding how or what my doctor should do to me. Perhaps if any of them were doctors... I think the whole issue is hype and won't change the way doctors treat patients. On OB-GYN-L, many of the docs have offered to be test cases for best practice. These kinds of situations and decisions should remain where they have been, a private situation between a patient and her doc.
it is not propaganda it is fact that this does occur,more often than people think. sticking your head in the sand and ignoring it will not make it go away.
congress and the goverment already make decision concerning health care, for example drugs or regulated human testing etc just to name a few. murder or infanticide is all this is. if you ever witness one first hand as i have you would know. it is the most horrible discusting thing I have ever witnessed. and by the way the fetus concerned was 30 weeks and would have been fine if left to develope or deliver. it was done because mother was "being emotionally harmed by the pregnancy" to me that is a crock of shyt!Last edit by mark_LD_RN on Mar 16, '03
Mar 15, '03Originally posted by stevielynn
Emerald - If we find the procedure appalling and there is never a medical necessity for it, it shouldn't matter if the pro-life community may use this as a way to further their agenda. We should be judging the procedure on its own lack of merits. It is intellectually dishonest to do otherwise.
Mar 16, '03I agree with most everyone. I am pro choice. But this is murder. Not all hydrocyphilic children are non viable. I took care of a beautiful 12 year old at camp once. She was beautiful. her family loved her deeply.
In my eyes this is just plain murder.
Perhaps the doctors performing this nasty procedure have alterior motives.
Are these fetus organs being harvested???
It's not for me to judge that is God's job.
Mar 16, '03I've been an obstetrical nurse for 20+ yrs. I can't remember when i was this upset over a so called procedure. I don't believe i'm going to be able to get this picture out of my head tonight.What the heck are we doing? where does this stop?
Mar 16, '03I'm disgusted. I've always been prochoice with early pregnancies believing I had the right to choose my future, not the government. In all honesty I had stayed away from this topic many times because it makes me physically sick to imagine this occurs. Rare would be the exception of a mother's life, but for the life of me I could never condone this. (insert nasy nasty words). Our society has made it so simple and easy to take away blame and responsibility from our actions and it is time that the consequences are faced. I'm not trying to preach or sprout off anger, I am just truly disgusted that some would go this road and horrified the pain that the child would bear.
Mar 16, '03The only reason I cansee to do this kind of procedure is if the baby/fetus is already dead or is so malformed that it cannot survive outside the womb.
Mar 16, '03I find it hard to believe, that a doctor, who sworn the Hippocrates, would do a procedure as unethical as this.
I find it even harder to understand, that a woman would something like this to herself, but above all to her child.
As one of the millions, not able to get a biological child, this hurts right into my very being.
Mar 17, '03My poor eyes were glued to this entire thread while my head kept telling me to stop reading. I'm in shock that anyone would consider this a medical procedure of any value. The image that keeps replaying in my head is of the parents I see in the NICU hovering over their premature babies praying for a miracle that would spare their precious child....Very sad all of this. I would rather lose my job than ever participate in such an act.
Mar 18, '03I'm pro choice, but I agree this is stretching it. Why would somebody wait that long before making a choice?
Mar 18, '03I've always been pro-choice, but this "procedure" should NEVER have been an option. I don't agree with much of what Bush and his Republican Congress do, but banning partial-birth abortions is a necessity if we are to call ourselves a civilized society. Killing a viable, pre-born infant is not a "choice", it's cold-blooded MURDER.
Mar 18, '03"thereby kills a human fetus"
My theory is that this language is what keeps hard-line pro-choice people from backing this law. I don't think there are all that many people out there who really believe this procedure is a good thing but I do think there are people out there who believe that If you legislate the fetus into personhood--that comes with certain rights, and that can spell the end of even first trimester abortions.
But if that is true then why isn't the pro-choice lobby attacking the language instead of promoting it as a last ditch protect the Mom kind of thing? I think that situation could come up once in a blue moon certainly, but working to change the language so that earlier abortions would still be protected seems like it would be a more productive way to promote the pro-choice cause.
It's like both sides believe it has to be all or nothing. But most people I know are somewhere in the middle.
Mar 18, '03I'm a pro-choice advocate but THIS I can not tolerate.
One of the many reasons I voted for Bush.
Mar 18, '03I am impressed by the thoughtful and articulate comments expressed in these posts concerning PBA.
It is apparent that the majority of posters, whether Pro-Life, or Pro-Choice, are horrified by the barbaric actions taken to actually perform this procedure. And, I agree with you.
It is not difficult to get a "visual image" of what occurs. Visualizing scissors inserted in the base of the skull, sucking out brains, etc., is truly horrifying. Visualizing a squirming, partially born, otherwise healthy baby trying to get away from the surgeon's scissors is nightmarish. I agree with some of the posters who have called this practice murderous.
Here's my question to some of the posters. Why does your outrage extend only to partial birth abortions?
It is a well documented fact that first trimester fetuses have been shown to feel the pain of being aborted. They attempt to get away from the surgeon's instruments. The have been shown to recoil in pain. And, once the abortion is completed the visual image of severed legs, arms, torsos, etc., of a tiny human is equally horrific. I don't know which visual image is worse. But, neither image should be acceptable in any society. I agree with the poster who said we treat our animals better.
We can take 10,000 credit hours of Biology and the fact remains that human embryos develop into humans--not monkeys, fish, or anything else. In my opinion, the pre versus post viability issue makes the visual image no less horrific.
Unless the life of the mother is in imminent danger we should be outraged and horrified by the visual images of any abortion.
Instead, I would rather "visualize" on correcting, dealing with, and helping sort through the circumstances that would drive women to resort to such awful means. God help us.