Pharmacists giving injections!?! - page 8

by chevyv | 26,150 Views | 79 Comments

I went into a a local store the other day to get a presription filled. I saw a sign that said basically get your flu, tetanus, meningitis, and other vaccinations right there. My first thought was "Great, I missed the flu shots... Read More


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    It's pretty common for Medical Assistants to give immunizations. As a Nurse I really don't have any problem with MA's or Pharmacists giving shots.

    Giving a flu shot is just a task and does not threaten Nursing any more than allowing someone to draw a line on a piece of paper threatens the professional integrity architects.
  2. 0
    Quote from chevyv
    I went into a a local store the other day to get a presription filled. I saw a sign that said basically get your flu, tetanus, meningitis, and other vaccinations right there. My first thought was "Great, I missed the flu shots given at work and they take my insurance." I went onto read that the vaccinations are given by specially trained pharmacists that took a course. I was a bit upset reading this. I don't want to fill my pts meds and I don't want a pharmacist who took an hour course to be thinking that is enough training to safely do part of my job!

    Am I overreacting? Just seems like nursing should remain nursing. Once they start this, who knows what's next!
    Pharmacist Immunization Training by APHA actually consists of 12 hours of self study and 8 hours of live training for a total of 20 hours. It's totally sufficient and get them prepared to meet the public health needs especially in case of a wide spread outbreak.
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    Quote from VICEDRN
    We have in fact been reading the same thread. My point is that today the pharmacist is giving injections, tomorrow they will be doing your job at the hospital for you just like they do at my facility.

    There are nurses I work with in the level I trauma I work at who have NEVER pushed code meds and have NO IDEA how to start a drip because the pharmacist always does it. The next step will be to prevent nurses from ever starting drips because pharmacy can do that now and oh! we will be increasing your patient load since you don't have to worry about the drips.
    I have noticed some changes over the years. When I started, we did not have a 24 hour pharmacy in our hospital, and so the nurses prepared many IV piggybacks. I mixed many bags of magnesium sulfate, pitocin, and antiobiotics beyone measure. Now, you'd think we were asking to waltz into the OR and do a bit of neurosurgery if we suggest mixing our own IV bags. I can calculate dosages, and I know sterile technique, so why is it ok for a pharmacy tech to do it, but it's not okay for me, a licensed, college educated professional to do it? It causes delay in treatment a lot of the time, but we are told we must wait for pharmacy to do it.
    amoLucia, VICEDRN, applewhitern, and 1 other like this.
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    Quote from MunoRN
    It's pretty common for Medical Assistants to give immunizations. As a Nurse I really don't have any problem with MA's or Pharmacists giving shots.

    Giving a flu shot is just a task and does not threaten Nursing any more than allowing someone to draw a line on a piece of paper threatens the professional integrity architects.
    I don't mind the idea of pharmacists giving injections, but I seriously mind the idea of MAs doing it. I realize that no one will be getting a flu shot in their GM, but think about how inherently risky this injection is, and think about how often it is done. I limped for 2 weeks after an MA injected me in the hip and got a bit too close to my sciatic nerve. While pharmacists aren't necessarily taught this skill in school, they have a basis of knowledge to build on when they are trained to do it.
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    Quote from monkeybug
    I have noticed some changes over the years. When I started, we did not have a 24 hour pharmacy in our hospital, and so the nurses prepared many IV piggybacks. I mixed many bags of magnesium sulfate, pitocin, and antiobiotics beyone measure. Now, you'd think we were asking to waltz into the OR and do a bit of neurosurgery if we suggest mixing our own IV bags. I can calculate dosages, and I know sterile technique, so why is it ok for a pharmacy tech to do it, but it's not okay for me, a licensed, college educated professional to do it? It causes delay in treatment a lot of the time, but we are told we must wait for pharmacy to do it.
    Come and work in the UK NHS- the RN's mix all of their IV meds!
  6. 0
    Quote from KatieP86
    Come and work in the UK NHS- the RN's mix all of their IV meds!
    I honestly would rather do it myself than wait on it to be done somewhere else in the hospital by someone who had no idea how badly I needed it (nor did they usually care).
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    NH Allows Pharmacists To Give More Vaccinations

    I
    nteresting...I didn't think much of it when the pharmacist's started giving flu shots. It's not the nurses but the doctors who are upset about this. The link above is just one article I read concerning the debate that doctors have with pharmacist being able to give vaccines. The docs didn't mind when the flu shots were given over but now the doctors are getting upset due to the ability of the pharmacist to be able to give all vaccines (including the shingles) without a doctor's prescription. No doc; fine, the pharmacist can prescribe it...hmmm.

    I think this is a big money maker for the pharmacies and also convenient for people who don't have a doctor and live in rural areas. I also think the majority of pharmacist will not like having to stop everything to give a shot (I know I didn't, even as an RN). In New Hampshire the law is that pharmacist who give all vaccines must carry liability insurance, are they expecting something (joke). Anyway, the docs say how are they going to know whose had a shot and when if the pharmacist isn't required to notify them and the arguments go on and on and on. This is more of an issue with docs then nurses IMO and I do see the doctors point.

    P.S. We use to mix our own IV meds...long ago it seems.
  8. 0
    Quote from tyvin
    Anyway, the docs say how are they going to know whose had a shot and when if the pharmacist isn't required to notify them and the arguments go on and on and on.

    My state has an immunization database. If I get an immunization from my general practitioner's office, pharmacist, allergist's office, county health department, hospital, or other facility, it all gets input into the same database that all healthcare practitioners in the state can access. Makes it nice for when someone has no clue when they had their last tetanus/pertussis booster -- just look it up!

    As for using "how are the doctors going to know" as an argument -- what the heck is wrong with them ASKING their patient? What if someone goes to more than one doctor? For example, I get allergy shots every month at my allergist's office -- if I get my flu shot there (and if my state didn't have the database), my GP wouldn't know about my flu shot unless I told him. Same with if I got it at the county health department where most immunizations are much cheaper (my insurance doesn't cover any adult immunizations). If a doctor needs to know when their patient gets a shot, then the doctor needs to ask the patient...
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    I've worked in a pharmacy for 8 years, although that is going to change in January when I start my first RN job.

    I'd trust our PIC to give me a shot before I would some nursing students, tbh! He has a crazy needle phobia and completely balked at the idea of giving injections for a long while. Both of our pharmacists tried to talk our pharmacy supervisor into letting me do the injections, as it would save them time and neither was very comfortable with the idea. Needless to say, that was shot down, lol (I was a vet tech for a few years, so even before RN school I had given MANY IM injections). If I stay on for a day or two a month after I graduate, I may be permitted to give the flu shots, but really? A deltoid injection isn't rocket science, and all of our pharmacists are trained in BLS.
  10. 0
    Quote from netglow
    Giving injections is easy, but, I am sure pharmacists would rather be doing pharmacist stuff. This is just added irritation for them. But since a pharmacist salary is set, all the pharmacy chains are doing is just adding to their workload, and profiting hugely as flu shots cost what is it like a buck or two, but they sell for about $30. This is huge and easy profit for the grocery and pharmacy chains. Big money they pocket now that nursing has been eliminated.

    Nursing is losing ground in many areas that used to be viable for extra income. Now, it's clear nurses who used to rely on flu shot clinics for some extra cash can no longer for the most part, but at a few areas. The big chains of drug stores and grocery stores across the country no longer hire nurses to be involved. Sad for new grads looking for just something to do with themselves and earn a little money as a nurse while waiting for a real job to come along. Sadly, flu shot clinics was the only thing and now that's all but gone.
    This. When you look at it from this point of view, it does take something away from nursing. It's a scope of practice issue. While pharmacists are indeed qualified, you're taking a skill widely used by nursing and giving it to another discipline. Thus, no more flu administration positions for nurses where pharmacists work because they can give it instead without any addition to their salary. Look at the bigger picture: How does this affect all of nursing?


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