Excelsior and California - page 2

I know there has been some debate about Excelsior and jobs in California but I would like to post my experience for others. I just moved to this state from the east coast and was concerned about... Read More

  1. by   Sheri257
    LPNtoRN: You completely misunderstood my post. I don't think anybody is intentionally "lying". But I do think there's a chance that the interpretation of phone calls and such may be biased by each individual's circumstance and desires. I suspect this is why we get completely different accounts of what the board is saying ...

    Look at what we have here ... Pedinurse is told one thing, you're told another. This has happened on other threads. That doesn't mean people are lying ... it just means there's a lot of misunderstandings going on.

    Just because I tend to rely upon the board's published accounts on the subject doesn't mean I think people are intentionally lying. I just think they may be mistaken.

    That email, for example, is so vague that it could be interpreted either way. Maybe that's the board's fault and maybe not, but I don't think there's anything in that email that solidly contradicts the board's published policy at this point.

    That email may also be relying upon outdated information. Similar info, for example, was posted on this old thread from December of 2003.

    http://allnurses.com/forums/f143/exc...ble-53063.html

    However, the board's statement was subsequently revised during the February, 2004 meeting where the concurrent with theory statement was put in it's place, which is what's posted on the board website now.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Nov 26, '05
  2. by   RN34TX
    Quote from LPNtoRN
    After the brutality of the clinical (and the Gong Show mentality)I felt so beaten up I regretted that I didn't go to a *real* nursing school.
    Loved the Gong Show comment! It certainly did feel that way for me as well. Someone has got to come up with a better way to transition LVN's into RN's besides EC's twisted, sadistic CPNE.
  3. by   Sheri257
    Quote from RN34TX
    Loved the Gong Show comment! It certainly did feel that way for me as well. Someone has got to come up with a better way to transition LVN's into RN's besides EC's twisted, sadistic CPNE.
    On a side note ...

    Make no mistake ... you get beaten up plenty in traditional school as well. I'm ready to return a few blows at my instructors, actually, but then I probably wouldn't graduate.

    We have to go through CPNE type clinical finals at the end of each semester and, it's not much fun either.

    :chuckle
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Nov 26, '05
  4. by   pedinurse05
    Either way the board needs to make this clear. They need to post what can be done , if anything, for EC grads to be licensed here. I only spoke with the people answering phones in the licensing department. LPNtoRN's note does sound like that you can become licensed if you show proof of the 360 hours--it does not mention concurrent with theory.

    As for Excelsior, something sure needs to be done differently. I really didn't think the CPNE was overly twisted or sadistic. I thought it was basic nursing using the nursing process. I do think more states are going to require more from them in regards to their clinical. This clinical in no way can predict if you will be a great RN or not...just like traditional nursing school grads aren't always that great. As more states place restrictions, Excelsiors credibility slips a little more.
    Missy
  5. by   RN34TX
    Quote from LPNtoRN
    BTW, we were contemplating a move to Colorado a couple of years ago when I was contemplating using Excelsior and was told by a woman who answered the phone at the BON there that under no circumstances would they honor a degree from Excelsior (this was a woman after your own heart, lizz) because an LPN would have to go through a rigorous amount of training to have the knowledge base an RN would have and this would take years of extra training. Turns out this was a secretary we talked to and none of her information was accurate (though I hear Colorado is about to pass a law requiring EC grads that enroll after January of '06 to have extra clinical hours........
    Anyway, lizz, whether we like it or not, Excelsior isn't going anywhere for awhile. Of the armies of Excelsior grads out there it seems obvious to me that eventually the school and the boards of nursing in mostr all states will meet somewhere in the middle over this, even if it is not for several years.
    Let me clarify what you mean by "clinical hours."
    CO, and other CA copycat states like KS, are asking for additional work hours as an RN, not the clinical hours as a student that CA is looking for.
    Thankfully, this seems to be the trend seen so far in the CA aftermath rather than states resorting to shutting EC grads out all together.

    I also agree that as much as some people want to envision EC being shut out state by state to eventually be wiped off the face of the earth, it's not going to happen anytime soon.
    There are indeed, too many of us.
    We're teaching in your nursing schools, administrators and managers in your hospitals, and we're serving on boards of nursing across the country.

    I'd also like to add that we can't truely appreciate the effect this has had yet because the biggest effect remains to be seen in years to come.
    Most of us are still eligible for licensure.
    When the post-Dec. 2003 enrollees begin to graduate, start working in other states, and then attempt to get licensed in CA, will be when the big effect happens.
    If the nursing shortage continues on it's current track, I wonder how the public will feel when the CA BNE continues shutting out nurses trained, experienced, and ready to go in a wide variety of specialties needing minimal orientation in hopes of instead plugging the hole with fresh green grads who will take years to gain the expertise of the experienced EC grads that are being shut out of the state, or the other popular quick fix to the shortage, to import RN's from overseas.
  6. by   RN34TX
    Quote from pedinurse05
    As for Excelsior, something sure needs to be done differently. I really didn't think the CPNE was overly twisted or sadistic. I thought it was basic nursing using the nursing process. I do think more states are going to require more from them in regards to their clinical. This clinical in no way can predict if you will be a great RN or not...just like traditional nursing school grads aren't always that great. As more states place restrictions, Excelsiors credibility slips a little more.
    Missy
    I totally agree that something needs to be done to come to terms between EC and the boards. I'm not seeing any evidence that EC has done nearly enough on it's part to help the situation.
    However, asking an experienced RN to go back to school and go through "advanced" medical-surgical or psych clinicals in order to get an RN license in another state is unrealistic and certainly no practical solution.

    I'm fine with KS and CO's decision, but this is where EC needs to step up to the plate. It works fine for people endorsing who are already RN's, but if one graduates in CO or KS, how are they going to get 2000 hours as an RN if they aren't eligible for licensure in the first place until they complete this?
    This is where EC needs to come in and provide clinical experience to meet state requirements.

    As far as the CPNE goes, I'm convinced that it's a game of chance and depends on the patients that you get assigned to and that's a big part of how we view it. I know other things like study and practice time, experience, etc. play into it as well, but.....
    In my experience, one PCS would be so easy that if all of mine were that way, I'd be walking away from it saying that it wasn't that bad and that if you study you will do ok. Another PCS would involve many time-consuming activities causing me to barely finish on time shaking like a leaf.
    This is where I felt mentally tortured. One examiner and assignment would be so easy while another was a set up for failure from the beginning.
    But that's another topic.
  7. by   pedinurse05
    I had some hard PCS situations and some easy, but I still found that it was just basic nursing. I guess it really depends on the individual student and how they react to stress. I don't necessarily think it is luck. My CPNE was exactly like the study guide. I feel if you know the study guide and those CE, then you shouldn't have too much difficulty...unless of course your nerves get the best of you. The CPNE hype of being grueling is over rated in my opinion. This, of course, is my personal view of the situation.



    Missy
  8. by   Jo Dirt
    Quote from RN34TX
    As far as the CPNE goes, I'm convinced that it's a game of chance and depends on the patients that you get assigned to and that's a big part of how we view it. I know other things like study and practice time, experience, etc. play into it as well, but.....
    In my experience, one PCS would be so easy that if all of mine were that way, I'd be walking away from it saying that it wasn't that bad and that if you study you will do ok. Another PCS would involve many time-consuming activities causing me to barely finish on time shaking like a leaf.
    This is where I felt mentally tortured. One examiner and assignment would be so easy while another was a set up for failure from the beginning.
    But that's another topic.
    Boy, you hit the nail on the head with that one, and I'm certain that people who pass and then flippantly assume that those who didn't pass just didn't know their stuff are living on Fantasy Island and don't realize how lucky they are. I, as well as several others I tested with, whether they passed or not, saw with our own eyes that it's all in the luck of the draw and what the CE thinks is important.
    Every one of us made mistakes that weekend (they tell you not to discuss the test with the other testers but of course the testers discuss the test) but it was funny to note that some people made the same mistakes but depending on the CE the mistakes were ignored or they were failed.
    Most of the CE's were great but one was downright nasty, and after I put in my complaint with the school I learn that I am not the only student to complain about this examiner. I truly hope this examiner will be dismissed from testing students. It was stressful enough then this person has to add to it. Anyway...
    what irked me was the labs. I had to repeat two, and of all things it was IM/SQ injection and wound care. I've given hundreds of injections and changed hundreds of dressings but I get in their with a dummy and fall to pieces. I don't care who you are, that right there is a joke, the way those lab stations are run. PCS's were okay. I can understand having that, but those labs...makes me sick to think about it.
    Yea, lizz, we know what real nursing school is like, we all went through LPN school the same as anyone else. But the CPNE is a new ball game. Totally brutal, totally uneccessary.
  9. by   pedinurse05
    Quote from LPNtoRN
    Boy, you hit the nail on the head with that one, and I'm certain that people who pass and then flippantly assume that those who didn't pass just didn't know their stuff are living on Fantasy Island and don't realize how lucky they are. I, as well as several others I tested with, whether they passed or not, saw with our own eyes that it's all in the luck of the draw and what the CE thinks is important.
    Every one of us made mistakes that weekend (they tell you not to discuss the test with the other testers but of course the testers discuss the test) but it was funny to note that some people made the same mistakes but depending on the CE the mistakes were ignored or they were failed.
    Most of the CE's were great but one was downright nasty, and after I put in my complaint with the school I learn that I am not the only student to complain about this examiner. I truly hope this examiner will be dismissed from testing students. It was stressful enough then this person has to add to it. Anyway...
    what irked me was the labs. I had to repeat two, and of all things it was IM/SQ injection and wound care. I've given hundreds of injections and changed hundreds of dressings but I get in their with a dummy and fall to pieces. I don't care who you are, that right there is a joke, the way those lab stations are run. PCS's were okay. I can understand having that, but those labs...makes me sick to think about it.
    Yea, lizz, we know what real nursing school is like, we all went through LPN school the same as anyone else. But the CPNE is a new ball game. Totally brutal, totally uneccessary.
    That's the problem...stress. You can know the material and the labs like the back of your hand...but that stress can make you fall apart. LPN is very accurate in saying this exam is a new ball game. I was able to manage my stress and have no repeats BUT the stress is major. I had a guy in my group that was totally unprepared and full of negativity--his failure was not knowing the CE and labs. I think Excelsior has to have some rigid rules for the CPNE to catch some students who really aren't meant to go this route to further their education. I am sorry you had such a stressful time! Congrats on your passing. When is your grad date??? You are in for more of the waiting game now. It took a few months after passing CPNE to graduate and a few more weeks to get the ATT.
    Missy
  10. by   Sheri257
    Quote from LPNtoRN
    Yea, lizz, we know what real nursing school is like, we all went through LPN school the same as anyone else. But the CPNE is a new ball game. Totally brutal, totally uneccessary.
    I'm not trying to say that one clinical test is more brutal than the other. As you say, it largely depends on the instructor. Our class has been broken up in groups to test and, as it turns out, everybody in the first group was failed at one station by one particular instructor. I guess this happens no matter what school you attend. My turn comes up Wednesday .... and I'm so looking forward to it ... not.

    :chuckle
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Nov 26, '05
  11. by   Sheri257
    Quote from RN34TX
    If the nursing shortage continues on it's current track, I wonder how the public will feel when the CA BNE continues shutting out nurses trained, experienced, and ready to go in a wide variety of specialties needing minimal orientation in hopes of instead plugging the hole with fresh green grads who will take years to gain the expertise of the experienced EC grads that are being shut out of the state, or the other popular quick fix to the shortage, to import RN's from overseas.
    I don't know if the public is aware of this or not. But, if it did become more of a public issue, I'm pretty sure the California Nurses Association would fight it, like they did the last time. And they do carry some clout with the public, as evidenced by their recent defeat of the governator's propositions and, his efforts to roll back portions of the ratio law.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Nov 26, '05

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