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Unfair wage increase



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No. 10
from llg
Old May 04, 2008, 08:53 AM

Default Re: Unfair wage increase
I'm in a quasi-management position now and have had similar positions in several hospitals for many years. Salaries are not always the same for leadership positions like they often are for staff nurse positions. I have found that there is usually more variability in leadership salaries based on past experience, specific job responsibilities, and negotiating skill.

Nurses are too quick to get angry at someone else who succeeds and does well for herself. Her colleagues should be applauding the ED manager for setting a precedent that the management of a 2nd unit deserves a raise in pay. She led the way to higher compensation for all managers who take on additional duties.
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No. 11
Old May 04, 2008, 12:57 PM

Default Re: Unfair wage increase
I guess I am missing something hear, but personally I don't see the OP as being jealous, and don't see why she is being given the "ohh, well tough" attitude.

If you look at her original post, you see that she mentions nurse managers OTHER than herself that would be more qualified for the position on a full-time basis. Also, although many variables may come is to play, with the pay scales of nurse managers, I'm sure that the number of employees that a nurse manager is responsible for should also, come into play, and the OP stated that this nurse will have like 30, while others are responsible for more in their ONE area. And, lastly by all accounts, specialty expertise, is also a deciding factor, in pay with nurse managers, but this particular nurse manager is not only, NOT an OB specialist, but doesn't have as much management experience than others.

I would be po'ed also. And I would have the same feeling that I think the OP has; and that is that I would be fine, if this position had been formally opened up for grabs with an increase in pay as a known benefit, and a MORE qualified nurse managers actually had an out in the open (not behind closed doors, the position is open, so if you ask for it behind closed doors, it's yours) chance to formally compete for the position, as well as the raise.
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No. 12
from zahryia
Old May 04, 2008, 03:51 PM

Default Re: Unfair wage increase
Originally Posted by Dream_Nurse2b View Post
I guess I am missing something hear, but personally I don't see the OP as being jealous, and don't see why she is being given the "ohh, well tough" attitude.

If you look at her original post, you see that she mentions nurse managers OTHER than herself that would be more qualified for the position on a full-time basis. Also, although many variables may come is to play, with the pay scales of nurse managers, I'm sure that the number of employees that a nurse manager is responsible for should also, come into play, and the OP stated that this nurse will have like 30, while others are responsible for more in their ONE area. And, lastly by all accounts, specialty expertise, is also a deciding factor, in pay with nurse managers, but this particular nurse manager is not only, NOT an OB specialist, but doesn't have as much management experience than others.

I would be po'ed also. And I would have the same feeling that I think the OP has; and that is that I would be fine, if this position had been formally opened up for grabs with an increase in pay as a known benefit, and a MORE qualified nurse managers actually had an out in the open (not behind closed doors, the position is open, so if you ask for it behind closed doors, it's yours) chance to formally compete for the position, as well as the raise.
I think this is a lesson in negoitiation(sp) and business. No one stopped any of the nurses 'with more experience and a BSN' to step up to the plate and state that they were willing to take the job with the appropriate compensation.

Things like this is done all the time in the corporate world. When you become a manager, you are now working in a different environment and must adjust your thinking.

Let's face it. Women are not good as men when it comes to salary negoitation. I plead guilty to this myself. Instead of playing the martyr role of taking up extra responsiblity with no additional compensation-over an extended period of time, the other managers could have done what the ED/OB manager did.

Is it fair to the other managers? Probably not. Was it smart of the ED/OB nurse. Absolutely.
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No. 13
from caliotter3
Old May 04, 2008, 04:03 PM

Default Re: Unfair wage increase
It appears that you were all willing to let her go for the extra work and responsibilities and now that she is going to be compensated appropriately you are all upset. She probably had this idea in mind from the very beginning, or got it somewhere along the line. More power to her. Glad to see someone being paid for doing above and beyond for once. Next time you and your colleagues get a chance to stand out from the crowd, you can reconsider standing aside and letting someone else do the work.
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No. 14
Old May 04, 2008, 04:47 PM

Default Re: Unfair wage increase
I do not understand what is unfair here. The ED manager had the guts to give an altamatem....and it worked, she got the raise (we she deserves IMO). It sounds like people suddenly want the job when they find out that it pays more...sounds to me like people are jealous that they didn't think of it themselves....
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No. 15
from snuggles49
Old May 06, 2008, 08:04 PM

Default Re: Unfair wage increase
Looking over the reponses to my orginal post I feel the need to add a few more things. Salary discussion among the 5 unit managers never occured. It was never an option as all our salaries along with all the other dept heads and administration were published in the local newspaper as part of the FOIA. Our staff even know what we make. The 5 unit managers all make the same except for now, One makes $ 10,000 more a year then the rest. She is the 4th least experienced manager. Currently we have a Unit manager who took her management position 4 months ago in the unit she has worked for 10 years but had no previous management experience,is not a BSN and started at the same pay as the manager with 10 years experience as a manager has a BSN and has worked her unit over 20 years.Out of the 5 managers 3 have a BSN and over 5 years experience as managers. Let me remind you again the manager that is now the hughest paid has 3 years as a manager of the ED does not have BSN. As far as negotiating for wage increase this has never been an option in our facility. Employees and Staff have always been at the mercy of the revenue vs loss at the end of the fiscal year. It was then that a wage increase was determined. But now we are unionized and the staff are quaranteed a % wage increase each year of the contract. Management was never quaranteed increases.

I quess what bothers me most re this situation is the fact none of the other managers were given the option of taking on the second unit with the compensation. We had all taken a turn at covering the unit (except the newest manager) and were still under the impression administration was still seeking a manager for the unit. All the negotiating for more compensation was done secretive. I am very surprised that we found out. The CNE told two of us " oh by the way" manager x is going to be managing dept x from now on and she will be compensated for doing this as manager x threatened to stop covering the unit after this date.

I am not jealous other than I could use the xtra $10,000 a year.The up side is I don't have to take on more evaluations, policies, etc. I do not feel the extra work of the unit she will take on is worth a 15 % raise. Oh yes I should mention no one else has gotten a yearly raise as of yet and if and when we do I am sure she will also get that raise do. I should also mention two of us offered to share the dept. responsibities by rotating coverage on a quartley basis but were told no as the decsion was made not to hire a manager now as manager x offered to take the dept permanetly providing she was given more money.

Thanks for all the input. The reponses have been interesting. Not quite what I expected.
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No. 16
from Jolie
Old May 06, 2008, 09:19 PM

Default Re: Unfair wage increase
None of this additional information changes the basic set of facts that one person took the initiative to negotiate a job change with added responsibilities and added compensation.

Even though this may not be the norm for your facility, there was obviously nothing that prohibited such a negotiation. One manager just happened to think of doing so before anyone else, and apparently presented a convincing case.

Good for her. I wish her well, and hope that someone else will benefit in the future from her trailblazing.
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No. 17
from zahryia
Old May 07, 2008, 12:32 PM

Default Re: Unfair wage increase
Originally Posted by snuggles49 View Post
Looking over the reponses to my orginal post I feel the need to add a few more things. Salary discussion among the 5 unit managers never occured. It was never an option as all our salaries along with all the other dept heads and administration were published in the local newspaper as part of the FOIA. Our staff even know what we make. The 5 unit managers all make the same except for now, One makes $ 10,000 more a year then the rest. She is the 4th least experienced manager. Currently we have a Unit manager who took her management position 4 months ago in the unit she has worked for 10 years but had no previous management experience,is not a BSN and started at the same pay as the manager with 10 years experience as a manager has a BSN and has worked her unit over 20 years.Out of the 5 managers 3 have a BSN and over 5 years experience as managers. Let me remind you again the manager that is now the hughest paid has 3 years as a manager of the ED does not have BSN. As far as negotiating for wage increase this has never been an option in our facility. Employees and Staff have always been at the mercy of the revenue vs loss at the end of the fiscal year. It was then that a wage increase was determined. But now we are unionized and the staff are quaranteed a % wage increase each year of the contract. Management was never quaranteed increases.

I quess what bothers me most re this situation is the fact none of the other managers were given the option of taking on the second unit with the compensation. We had all taken a turn at covering the unit (except the newest manager) and were still under the impression administration was still seeking a manager for the unit. All the negotiating for more compensation was done secretive. I am very surprised that we found out. The CNE told two of us " oh by the way" manager x is going to be managing dept x from now on and she will be compensated for doing this as manager x threatened to stop covering the unit after this date.

I am not jealous other than I could use the xtra $10,000 a year.The up side is I don't have to take on more evaluations, policies, etc. I do not feel the extra work of the unit she will take on is worth a 15 % raise. Oh yes I should mention no one else has gotten a yearly raise as of yet and if and when we do I am sure she will also get that raise do. I should also mention two of us offered to share the dept. responsibities by rotating coverage on a quartley basis but were told no as the decsion was made not to hire a manager now as manager x offered to take the dept permanetly providing she was given more money.

Thanks for all the input. The reponses have been interesting. Not quite what I expected.
I understand your frustration. I just hope it lies with upper management and not the young lady who took the opportunity.

Something similiar happened to me. A girl with less experience and education got promoted over me. I was pi$$ed with her. But looking back, she was not the problem, I was. Instead of actively pursuing the position, I layed low because I had the experience and qualifications above her and it would be handed to me. NOT! Lesson learned.

People treat you the way you allow them to and unfortunately, you and your colleagues allowed upper management to add on extra responsibilities for an extended period of time with no compensation. Not to mention you might not even get an annual raise!

The woman who got the position probably pointed out the money they would be saving by paying her an additional 15% rather than hiring for a new position and demonstrated to them that she actually WANTED the position. Unfortunately your proposal about sharing the position came a day late and a dollar short.

I wish you and your colleagues luck and I hope something good comes out of it for all of you.
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No. 18
Old May 07, 2008, 12:54 PM

Default Re: Unfair wage increase
Just because one has more experience than another, that does not make them more qualified...some one can have 5yrs experience and get a job over some one with 20yrs experience because they are more qualified (i.e. work better, perform better, ect). Jobs should be given according to those more qualified, not simply those with more seniority...
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No. 19
Old May 07, 2008, 01:03 PM

Default Re: Unfair wage increase
Originally Posted by Jolie View Post
None of this additional information changes the basic set of facts that one person took the initiative to negotiate a job change with added responsibilities and added compensation.

Even though this may not be the norm for your facility, there was obviously nothing that prohibited such a negotiation. One manager just happened to think of doing so before anyone else, and apparently presented a convincing case.

Good for her. I wish her well, and hope that someone else will benefit in the future from her trailblazing.
I agree - I thought the same thing as I read the "additional" facts.

steph
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