Why do so many nurses from the Philippines come to Canada/USA?

lactamase · Apr 7, 2011

How different are American nurses compared to UK nurses when it comes to practicing nursing? Can you give a realistic example. Apply it in a scenario or something like that. They say that nurses from countries like UK don't have to worry if their patient can pay or not unlike in America. Well I do think that's a factor.

skylark, BSN, RN · Apr 8, 2011

I wonder how these terrible students manage to pass, after all it's the clinical teams and the sign off mentors that have the responsibility for educating and confirming their fitness to practice, are you failing these students as a sign off mentor or are you guilty of passing them even though you are so critical of their practice. Additionally if you have such great concerns that your local nursing school is failing to turn out nurses who are fit to practice then you have a professional duty to report this to the school and if they are still passing these would need need to the NMC as the school is not doing it's job. But then you would need significant evidence to prove your claims wouldn't you.

Since you ask, no I don't sign them off, neither do the majority of my coworkers. We have been in dialogue with the university for a long time, and given evidence as to the standards we witness, but it has little effect.

I will say no more, its off topic, but if you recall my original point was to partially answer why there are so many Filipino nurses in UK hospitals, and I have done that.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Apr 9, 2011

Why can't they move those call centers to other countries with low cost of manpower? I'm pretty sure Philippines and India are not the only countries with that standard of labor pay....Get it? Exactly my point!

What's there to get? I could have phrased your sentence as: why would the profit-conscious call center industry waste money on training people from Timbuktu to speak English so that they can work for peanuts in overseas call centers when the dirt cheap alternative in the world are the people from the Philippines whose English is not stellar but "good enough" to get by for a very small fraction of the cost compared to employing native English speakers in their own homelands where the call center services are utilized. As a citizen of the US, I hold my Filipino heritage with high esteem but the "call center boom" as you put it quite proudly in your post is certainly not a strong point of pride for the country if you ask my opinion.

And just as an observation on my part, I've worked with a lot of Indian immigrants in the US from physicians, scientists, nurses, engineers, etc. Definitely one of the most brilliant individuals I've worked with who can speak perfect English in terms of grammar and breadth of vocabulary -- if you can get past their accents. Filipinos claim to be good in English but come on, read some of the posts here on allnurses and decide for yourself if that statement is even true.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Apr 9, 2011

They say that nurses from countries like UK don't have to worry if their patient can pay or not unlike in America.

Huh? where did you get the idea that nurses in "America" worry if their patient can pay or not?

elkpark · Apr 9, 2011

How different are American nurses compared to UK nurses when it comes to practicing nursing? Can you give a realistic example. Apply it in a scenario or something like that. They say that nurses from countries like UK don't have to worry if their patient can pay or not unlike in America. Well I do think that's a factor.

I've been a working RN in the US for 25+ years, and have never "worried" for a single moment about whether a client can pay or not, or had that influence my decision process or the care I provide. In most cases, I (and the rest of the nursing staff) don't even know whether, or how, the individual's care is being paid for. The people who are concerned about payment are the people at the top of the hospital administration, not the direct care personnel.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Apr 9, 2011

I've been a working RN in the US for 25+ years, and have never "worried" for a single moment about whether a client can pay or not, or had that influence my decision process or the care I provide. In most cases, I (and the rest of the nursing staff) don't even know whether, or how, the individual's care is being paid for. The people who are concerned about payment are the people at the top of the hospital administration, not the direct care personnel.

I've seen hospitals here consider transplanting a new organ to an undocumented immigrant who has no means to pay for the insane amount of dollars that will be spent on their care. I think lactamase has some issues mixed up or is it a matter of not being able to make his point across well, maybe?

Iamnars · Apr 9, 2011

well based from the previous post, way back in page 1 and 2, I don't see any reason why there are so many Canadians who are jobless. I tried to look for a nursing job in the internet specifically in Canada and there are lots of hiring there, for Ontario I think there are 100+ nursing jobs open in just 1 website, how much more in others. Try to look for possibilities, advise your fellow Canadians to search and search for a job because in your country there are lot's of possibilities, not unless they are not highly qualified to land that job. That is where we Filipinos' are known of, try and try until you die( naah..just joking) try and try until you succeed, and also ("Kung ayaw may dahilan...kung gusto maraming paraan ")- If you do not want to do it, you always have reason for not doing it. If you want to do it, you can always find ways to do it.

lactamase · Apr 9, 2011

What's there to get? I could have phrased your sentence as: why would the profit-conscious call center industry waste money on training people from Timbuktu to speak English so that they can work for peanuts in overseas call centers when the dirt cheap alternative in the world are the people from the Philippines whose English is not stellar but "good enough" to get by for a very small fraction of the cost compared to employing native English speakers in their own homelands where the call center services are utilized.

It's seems like you don't get it. What I'm trying to point out is that among those non-native English speakers or those who do not speak English as their first language, Filipinos are among the best. That's basically all that I'm trying to say and I'm using the "call center boom" as an example. There's no need to compare a non-native speaker to a native speaker of the language. The later would flatout beat the non-native dude 99% of the time.

lactamase · Apr 9, 2011

Huh? where did you get the idea that nurses in "America" worry if their patient can pay or not?

1.Reports of uninsured Americans not receiving medical care.

2.USA as the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have health coverage

-stated by Institute of Medicine of the National Academies of Science

3.United States being ranked 37th in the world in health care systems by WHO and one of the lowest rank among developed nations.

Can't really argue on this since I've never been to America but maybe you guys are on the better end of the spectrum.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Apr 10, 2011

1.Reports of uninsured Americans not receiving medical care.
2.USA as the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have health coverage
-stated by Institute of Medicine of the National Academies of Science
3.United States being ranked 37th in the world in health care systems by WHO and one of the lowest rank among developed nations.
Can't really argue on this since I've never been to America but maybe you guys are on the better end of the spectrum.

Well, then I was right in thinking that you just didn't get your message across well. To state that nurses here worry about whether their patients can pay for medical care or not is just plain, flat out, absolutely, without reasonable doubt, false. Elkpark already answered that quite succintly.

Regarding the statements in your last post, well, those are very true and I can explain them further if you want.

Statement 1 and 2: There are uninsured Americans not receiving medical care. USA is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have health coverage.

As it stands at the moment (with Obama's new health care law taken out of the equation), there are three ways an American can receive health care insurance coverage: 1) Government funded insurance through Medicare (for those 65 and above only) and through state funded Medicaid programs. Medicaid programs are very restrictive -- only those with extreme poverty (low income, limited financial resources) qualify and state to state rules vary on their criteria for eligibility. 2) Veteren's Affairs funded which only applies to Americans who served in the military 3) Private insurers such as HMO's, PPO's, Blue Cross, and such. For the most part, Americans who fall under the third category have insurance through employment-sponsored programs as part of their work benefits.

Sounds peachy enough doesn't it? Find your own category among the above 3 and we can all gather 'round for a healthy kumbaya. Not really, there are Americans who at one point or another in their lives, will not fall into any of the above 3 categories. Take for example, a middle-aged healthy man (not 65 yet, so not eligible for Medicare), who loses his job at the automotive manufacturing plant because the job was shipped overseas, will lose his employement sponsored health insurance. He will not qualify for Medicaid because he still has the house he mortgaged when he had the job because this house is an asset, so he's not considered down and out, though really, he is screwed. In short, God forbid that something changes in this man's health because now, he has nothing to cover him when he is sick.

Again, that's just one example. There are numerous other scenarios of peope who are uninsured in the US: the undocumented alien (that's an easy one), the self-employed who doesn't make enough income to purchase individual private insurance because of its high cost, and those who work for companies that do not provide insurance to its employees, the list goes on. By law, hospitals are not to turn away a patient who shows up at the ER with no health insurance. This is one of the reasons why ER's across the US are full of people seeking care not only for true emergency situations but also for things that you would normally just see the physician in the clinic for. It doesn't matter if you have insurance or not, the ER will take you in and will just send you a bill later if you have no health insurance to cover part of the cost of the service you received.

Some Americans, in my opinion, are proud self-sufficient people who view government dole-out as a sign of personal failure. Some who become uninsured, will refuse to seek medical care for little ailments and minor discomforts and will "man-up" and do nothing not realizing that a mild or minor health care situation can get worse. On the other hand, there are also some people who do not see the shame in receiving government assistance and will do whatever is required to get Medicaid coverage. I'm not in a position to judge people's choices, I'm just giving scenarios. Illegal aliens do show up in the ER's across the US when they are sick. Hospitals are not law-enforcement agencies, thus, are not bound to report the legal status of patients to authorities.

Statement Number 3: United States being ranked 37th in the world in health care systems by WHO and one of the lowest rank among developed nations.

This is largely due to the facts in statement numbers 1 and 2. Developed nations in Europe as well as Canada, Australia, and New Zealand have a form of national health care coverage available for all their citizens. However, the quality of health care delivered in hospitals in the US is one of the most technologically advanced and is comparable to the industrialized countries with national health care coverage. The difference lies in who gets access to this technologically-advanced care. The insured definitely gets a piece of the pie but so do others who for lack of a good word, also take advantage of it. Like the example I made in another post about the undocumented alien who is being considered for an organ transplant. Though undocumented, this person showed up at the hospital's door in fulminant single-organ failure. It is unethical to kick this person to the curb to die... and what will the headlines on the evening news bear if a hospital is found to have done that? But is it fair to use limited hospital resources to pay for this person's care? or worse, should taxpayer money be used for this person's care? You don't have to answer that question, I have my answer but I prefer to discuss it on another thread.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Apr 10, 2011

It's seems like you don't get it. What I'm trying to point out is that among those non-native English speakers or those who do not speak English as their first language, Filipinos are among the best. That's basically all that I'm trying to say and I'm using the "call center boom" as an example. There's no need to compare a non-native speaker to a native speaker of the language. The later would flatout beat the non-native dude 99% of the time.

Oh alright, it's me.

Apexpredator · Apr 10, 2011

The thing is nurses in the Philippines are not compensated properly. If you compare the salary of a nurse in Canada or the US to the salary of a nurse in the Philippines, you would be surprise how a nurse in the Philippines can allocate their salary for the expenses in a month.