Nursing is pathetic...

nursedude · Mar 25, 2000

SSUleader,

Here are my "replies" to your questions. They are only my opinions- (keep in mind that I am a crazy freak [according to most others]for expressing what I think.)

1)is nursing pathetic or are nurses causing it to be pathetic?

2)I was happy to read your response about what you did to change your course and I'd love to hear more about what you are doing now, specifically on why it makes you happier.

3)Really though, can you put a price on what we do?

4)What do you feel are some of the most important issues in nursing, and what can nurses do to change them?

1. It's a combination of things...For years nurses took a "back seat" to other professionals. For instance when I went through nursing school one of my (older) instructors told me how nurses used to give up their seats so that the doctor could sit down...(WTF?)

This "back seat" mentality continues on today. I hear it all the time: "Nursing is primarily a "woman's" profession...." How ironic that in a "woman's" profession the women give up their seats for "men" to sit down!

I get it too. "Oh, youre a "male" nurse". Okay, so when the plumber comes do you hear "Oh, youre a "male" plumber" or when the mail comes "Oh youre a "female" mailman?"

Another one of the points here that will keep nursing "pathetic" or a "women's" profession is that "UNTIL NURSES DO PUT A PRICE ON WHAT WE DO(#3),THE NURSING PROFESSION WILL CONTINUE TO ERODE."

******My opinion is that If assuming the responsibility of an RN, or for being "the most trusted people in the world"(your words) for advancing yourself to the level in medicine(and in life) where peoples lives count on your skills and critical decision making abilities commands a low (average?) wage , what does this profession command in the way of respect???? Do you see my point? (Does anyone?)*****

Sure, there are other factors at work here like- Society, HMO's, Managed care etc...But there is no one outside of nursing that will do anything for nursing except nurses. If it were up to the hospitals and HMO's and managed care I think there would be less nurses! I see nursing almost like the civil rights movement except there is no president Lincoln, no Martin Luther King Jr. (I do not intend to make anyone upset here) and no movement. I see Nursing continue to be oppressed and the majority of nurses continue to feel as if they can't do anything or don't care to do anything. Again,I think that because nursing is/was a "woman's" profession that nurses have become accustomed to their "good" pay. For crying out loud, that "good" pay is at best a "good" second income! I feel that nursing is allowing itself to be oppressed. I feel that nurses are "satisfied" with their wages. I don't feel that nurses are paid nearly what they are worth both monetarily speaking and in the terms of respect....In other words nurses have setled for less for so long that they are unable to see what their value/incomes/respect really are!

2. What makes me happier now is that I am in a business that rewards merit. I am no longer busting my butt for nothing. The harder I work the more I make. I am no longer exposed to life threatening diseases on a daily basis for nothing. If I do extra, I am paid extra. I am not "expected" to risk my health.

I no longer do things that the CEO or owner of my company is not capable of doing. My immediate supervisor "covers" me if I am ill or busy. I am encouraged to learn more and become more involved at work and when I do I am rewarded. I have now entered a profession that has much REAL potential for advancement. I have a great medical plan and a great retirement plan.

I consider myself at the bottom of the totem pole where I work yet I find that I am respected and valued. I guess that's the difference. As a nurse I do not feel valued...

Again, see my point in response number 1. My experience as a nurse has shown me that when my nursing supervisor told me she "valued" me she really meant "If you don't work then I'll have to cover your shift." And when I worked at the insurance company and was told that I was "valued" I was also expected to show a minumum cost savings of $25,000 dollars a month- more than half of my yearly salary.(Actually, I can't recall any of my previous "higher ups" saying that they valued me as a nurse. I'm just trying to make a point.)

I also started my own company. The service that this company provides is: We obtain $$MONEY$$ for people(patients) that had their claims denied by their HMO or insurance company. On a few occasions we obtained reimbursement from hospitals as well. I must say that this is where I get a certain "joy" out of life. Sticking it to the overvalued executives and administrators in healthcare/insurance and returning the $$$ to the patient.

3. See number 1 and 2. If professional baseball players can put a price on what they do (ie: play a damn game), why can't nurses? What kind of question are you asking here SSUleader? Why are you "undervalueing" nursing with the question "can you put a price on what we do?"? This is part of my point...Maybe there is no way of putting a price on what we do. If that is the case, then why aren't we paid, valued and respected more?

4. See number 1, 2, 3. I quit my full time job as a nurse. That is one of the biggest statements I feel that I could make. I also am a member of the Pa. Nurses Association. I also inform as many people(non nurses about how I feel about all of the above).

nursedude · Mar 27, 2000

SSUleader,

I didn't mean anything personal. I just feel that the wages that nurses accept are crap... I mean, if baseball players can get millions of dollars to play a stupid game why can't nurses expect more than what they get paid presently? Do you remeber that baseball players strike a few years ago? The professional baseball players felt that they were being underpaid...They were making BIG bucks at the time. What is it that they do that is so important that they needed more money for?

I have and I know other nurses whom I have worked with that have saved peoples lives. I have worked with paramedics and EMT's who have saved peoples lives. Why, why, why are we so underpaid? Why are we so undervalued? In todays world (and it is sad to say)- the amount of value and respect you recieve is commensurate with the salary that you command. Sure, there are other rewards that come with nursing but how low can we go?

My belief is that you may be correct by saying that it's not possible to put a pricetag on what we do; However, because we don't (or won't) put a pricetag on it we are drastically shortchanging ourselves and quite possibly our patients as well.

The point that I wanted to get accross in my previous post was that nurses for so long allowed themselves to be considered and paid very little. This in my opinion has snowballed out of control. Sure, there are MANY nurses out there that just think that the current state of the nursing profession is just all peaches and cream...My point of view is nowhere near this...I have had other jobs outside of nursing. Currently I work full-time in another field and all I can say is that Nurses are under-paid, under-valued and under-respected. To top it all off, I think that the majority of nurses who so strongly opposed my views are part of this problem; That is, because they think that the pay is so good and that there are so many opportunities and because they are "so rewarded" in other ways they are slitting thier own throats. Eventually those nurses are the ones who will allow nurse's salaries to drop so low that the majority of nurses won't be able to afford to work as a nurse!

I feel that the nursing profession as a whole has the potential to be one of the strongest professions in the world but because it has traditionally been a "woman's profession" and allowed itself to be so under-paid, under-valued and under-respected that it is currently in a very sad state (ie: pathetic). I think that the nurses who oppose me in this little bulletin board discussion are blind to this reality. It's as if they are brainwashed into believing that they are valued and that they are respected and paid well. What the heck is wrong with them? Can't they see that their lovely little profession is on the verge of extinction? Good grief! Why is it that here in Pittsburgh Pa. where I live and work that the wage for a bus driver starting out is the average wage of a RN with 10 years of experience? (Sure I know, I know...Someone out there is going to tell me to try being a busdriver if I am so unhappy about being a nurse...I hear it coming already...) My point is that nursing is one of a few professions that is so underpaid. It sickens me when I read the responses from nurses who tell me that I am wrong for feeling this way and that I must be a bad nurse because I am in nursing for all of the wrong reasons..For crying out loud! To all those who tell me this- You mean to tell me that you don't work for money? You work because of the "other rewards" that you recieve from nursing? Hello, thats all lovey dovey and all but I think that that is one of the biggest problems in this profession. I'm sure that bus-drivers here in Pittsburgh get a lot out of their jobs too- Oh how touching!

Heck, I bet baseball players even get "other rewards" and maybe some of them feel as if baseball was a "calling" and not a job.

When a patient is admitted into a hospital are they admitted because of the equiptment in the hospital? The CAT scanner? The ventilators? The special mattresses on the beds? NO! They are admitted primarily for the NURSING CARE !

Contrary to popular belief the reason that there are patients in hospitals and nursing homes and extended care facilities is because of the nursing care.

MY POINT IS: Nursing is a profession that is VERY underpaid. Most nurses allow this underpayment to continue and the majority of these nurses are blind to the reality that they are underpaid. Because of this fact, Nursing is also under respected. Because nurses don't care much about that nursing is under valued.

Until nurses are paid what they are worth and until nurses realize that they are not respected and not valued my opinions will not change. Nor will I allow another hospital or other employer to exploit my abilities as a nurse. I guess you could say that "I am on strike" as a nurse until I get more than what other nurses are accustomed to.

nursedude · Mar 27, 2000

Here is what I am talking about. This was posted by prnhiusa in her last post:

"I live in a city outside of Toronto,Canada and been here

for 7 years due to my husband's job transfer. I'm an RN with more than 20 years experience,worked in the US(WestCoast)...My work hrs. were varied and pay was CDN$18/visit. If one is the sole breadwinner, she/he won't be able to pay the bills."

>>>> a professional with 20 years experience should not have to depend on "the breadwinner" to pay the bills...

*****Does anyone see my point?******

(Go ahead, tell me that I am crazy, that I am a "bad" nurse and that I am in it for all the wrong reasons....)

Yeah, yeah, so she lives in Canada. My point is that as a professional with 20 years experience why did they have to leave? Why couldn't the professional with 20 years experience be the breadwinner? Could it be that those 20+ years of experience don't add up enough to pay the bills in the USA as well? (Those 20+ years should be more than ample to pay the friggin bills/be the breadwinner!!!They would be in most any other profession.) Oh, but I am wrong again- I know shame, shame on me....I am in it for all the wrong reasons...Let me guess...I should be lucky that I have a job?

W.U.N. Wake Up Nurses! Why can't YOU be the breadwinners?

(PRNHIUSA- please don't take this post personal)

AZTRAUMANURSE · Mar 28, 2000

Would I recommend Nursing as a career?

No.

I feel much the same as Nursedude...

We are POORLY paid. It is sad.

We are not "Just-A-Nurse", and I wish Nurses would quit referring to themselves as such. Have a little pride in your profession.

When I began nursing school fourteen years ago, I heard the "I'm glad to see more men in Nursing". Traditionally, men were nurses, long before Florence Nightingale. We (men) have yet to overcome the in-fighting among our profession members, women AND men. We, nurses, need to stand together to support each other, before we can bring about change, especially in how society and our administrations treat us.

As the profession stands, I would not recommend anyone enter into it, without a major overhaul.

Nancy1 · Mar 28, 2000

After reading all these posts, I wonder what profession would you recommend?

After all of this I have to tell you I must be one lucky nurse because I have doctors who respect me and my decision making abilities, I have a DON who believes in me and gives me room to grow, I have an IDT that works well together, I have a CEO who tells me I am doing a great job, I have residents who appreciate me, and family members who are appreciative.

I am sorry that there are so many out there who do not have the excitement that I have when I go in to work each day. I work in a not for profit LTC facility that is expanding and I get to help design my new units.

For any of you out there that are feeling the stirrings of discontentment, I ask you to start looking for another area of nursing that you might like. Don't give up on nursing because of the facility, move on and be successful elsewhere.

Oh, Nursedude, I hear your "loveydovey". My friends tell me I have too much enthusiasm. I was a CNA for 10 years prior to my RN. I knew what I was getting into. I still love it.

To all you nursing students, I just want to say look for your niche and you will enjoy nursing.

Best of luck to all of you. NA

SSUleader · Mar 28, 2000

Nursedude,

I can see your point, but I am still very excited to become a nurse. For the past 2 months, I have been doing my senior preceptorship in a local ER. Even in that short a time period, I do see some of the limitations and downfalls of nursing. But, I'm still at the edge of my seat excited! I'm excited to begin my first career (I started college when I was 18, now I'm 22). I haven't been exposed to what you experienced nurses have been, and I have not argued with your opinions. In fact, I feel really lucky to have been able to be part of these discussions, and in a sense, prepare myself for the politics of this new career. One thing really stands out about your last post. What can nurses do to increase our pay? It seems like it will take a huge effort by a very large number of nurses to get the ball rolling. Maybe that's why things haven't changed, because there is a lot standing in our way. But this new "nursing shortage" may be to our financial advantage. Or else it will kill those of us who stay in the profession.

Thanks again for the feedback, it is much appreciated.

Amanda

nursedude · Mar 29, 2000

Amanda,

I don't mean to "rain on your parade". In fact I wish you all the best in your career!

All I am trying to do is share my point of view with others. I have had more than a career in nursing and based upon those other experiences my observation is that nurses are very underpaid/respected/valued. Apparently, I am NOT the only one who feels this way(thank God).

Also, It is my belief that the majority of nurses feel quite the opposite of the way that I do(they think pay is adequate, feel respected/valued etc.) because they are used to this current status. Just because things have always been a certain way does not mean that they are "okay". I think that the majority of these nurses have become complacent to some degree; That is, things are "good enough" so that means things are great....

Just my opinion....

km rn · Mar 29, 2000

I would not recommend nursing as a career/profession.

Nursing is unfortunately a job that pays enough to make minimum wage jobs unattractive, yet does not pay enough to keep up with other degreed professional positions.

I graduated in 1984 - the most positive thing I can say about nursing is that it offers a diverse arena for work. However, most arenas outside the acute care setting mean taking significant pay/benefit cuts.

I agree with an earlier respondant - nursing wages are fine as a secondary income, however, it is hard to support a family on the wages provided.

I have worked in a state that had a nursing union - this union had little impact on the myriad of workplace issues - staffing, etc. that have been mentioned.

As far as nursing organizations, etc. being used to help improve our working conditions - alas, I have found that most of these organizations are very "ivory tower".

nbicurn · Mar 29, 2000

Would I recommend nursing? Not on you life. But, if someone CHOOSES it I will support them. It's hard work. We are underpaid compared to plumbers and electricians - but I make more per hour than my husband who works for a major airline as a DC-10 mechanic. There are ways to make more money in nursing that have been mentioned in this discusssion. 1) move somewhere where they pay more. 2) work for an agency (some people I know make 50 -60 grand a year full time in agency nursing). 3) go back to school and become a CRNA or other advanced practice nurse. I don't know how to be anything but a nurse (I started nursing school at 18 and am 40 now) but some days I daydream of doing ANYTHING else but this. But, when I go to work and hold those teeny-tiny babies - well, I know I won't be giving it up.

Miss Saigon · Mar 30, 2000

Reading all of this, makes me sick. How can all of you selfish, money hungry people even use the term nurse and not feel guilty. I work in NY on a med/resp floor, making $14.50 an hour. You are all missing the self fufilling prophecy, that comes from nursing. Can you sleep at night when a ill elderly person has to go to the bathroom and you get frustrated with them, or think I don't get paid enough for this. I am appauled that as and RN I have others in my profession that are so unprofessional. Put it in perspective, if you were the pt. would you want a nurse with that type of attitude I think not. Patients are trustung us with their lives. Tell me how much is a life worth. Maybe you should find another profession!!!

nursedude · Mar 30, 2000

Well E-X-C-U-S-E M-E.....

What century are you in Miss Saigon? Slavery was abolished years ago!

I don't think the issue here is about: what kind of attitude does the nurse have that takes care of me, rather it should be "what kind of professional has my life in their hands that only makes $14.00/hour!!?" If the RN taking care of me has to work two jobs to pay the bills, how much sleep did they get last night? How will that affect the care the patient recieves????

Miss Saigon, I think it is YOUR attitude that is "sick" (as you put it). You ought to quit being a martyr and get paid what you are worth.

I agree, you cannot put a price on someone's life; however, you CAN put a price on a job/profession/career. Nurses are professionals who deserve every last cent that they earn because they do take care of people's lives.

For Crying out loud!!! Bus drivers and mailmen make more money!

Miss Saigon, I suggest that YOU leave the profession and become a candy striper or volunteer- If you were the nurse taking care of me and I knew you only made $14.00/hr I would question what kind of professional you were! Or you could say: Would I trust my life to someone who makes less money an hour than my plumber does?

askater · Mar 31, 2000

Miss Saigon--

My main concern is staffing. Not at my current position, but at my last job. To have the nurse available to get the patient to the bathroom. We didn't have enough staff help.

Not what I'm going to do...with my check. And whether I'll have enough money to pay bills.

I have found nursing a very unselfish profession. My main thought is my patient. There's many days I have no break. (potty or food) And not one day do I complain. I'm one of the most pleasant nurse you'll meet.

I'm very satisfied with my pay. And even if I was paid less...I'd still be a nurse. But I would pay extra money to get my parent/family good care.

The area I'm from...we're paid very well. But in other areas pay is a lot less. I wish all nurses could survive. But how would we survive....how would my family survive. There's a BIG gratification in nursing...alone without money. But the only way to survive this day and age is with money. To call someone SELFISH for wanting to make it day by day is harsh.

In the hospital my main thought is the patient. Care to become healthy, survive...But when I come home my main thought is my family. To give them care and to survive.

Have a nice day