Religion Needed to be a Good Nurse? - page 13

We just covered a spiritituality/religion lesson in our BSN course and the instructor (religious) came out and said good nurses had spirituality and would be there for whatever spiritual needs the PT... Read More

  1. by   Tweety
    Quote from jlsand
    In a word, NO. I happen to be atheist. I do believe one needs to respect others beliefs, but you yourself DO NOT NEED to be religious or even a theist to be a good nurse. OK, here comes the flaming....:angryfire


    Oh, and by the way, my being gay makes it so most Christians don't want me anyway... certainly my partner and I of over 6 years can't get married. Think church people might have something to do with that?? hmmm?? Now flame me.....

    There's plenty of chuches like UU, some Espisopalians, and MCC that will accept homosexuals. I didn't allow the rejection of Christians turn me a way from Christ. But I'm sure that's not why you're an atheist.

    And yes, Christians have everything to do with the government not allowing your partnership any legality. But we've strayed from nursing topics here.
  2. by   Bipley
    Quote from Tweety
    Interesting site. There have been various Christian revivals, I remember the "born again" movement in the 70s, so personally I think Christians will always be the huge influence, at least in my time. Their stranglehold on the Republican party and the President currently is worrisome to me. It's interesting that when this is threatened how they behave. (of course one can argue as a Christian, the President isn't influenced by the religious right at all but lives his life that way, but I don't believe that for a minutes).
    Well, there was another revival! It was about 3 years ago at its peak and that is when it was the 'in' thing for high school students to be deeply religious. Needless to say, it didn't go over with the hit hoped for.

    I don't think Christianity will have the grip it has today. That grip is letting loose now. I think one reason is the natural decline that is happening. It's happened in other places (Canada, for one) and it's a natural progression of sorts.

    Also, with all the people from places outside the US moving here and bringing their religion and culture with them, that is making a difference as well.

    As for the prez, his approval rating was down to 36% the last I read. Between the border issues and everything else, few are really thrilled with his policies lately.
  3. by   tvccrn
    Quote from Bipley
    Oh, that's kind of an atheist joke. When someone refers to being a baby eater that means that some of the fundamentalist Christians believe if we don't share their God then we must have the morality of a baby eater. It's a short cut to explaining how a small, closed minded, group of people view us. Not Christians as a whole, but a small minority of them.

    Not sure what religion you are or are not (I haven't been paying attention to who believes what) but you might be very shocked at the attitudes some have about atheists. There really are people out there that believe all morality comes from their God and if we don't have their God in our lives, we surely can't have morality. And if an atheist does have morality, they are the exception to the rule.

    This is why I never ever tell a Christian at my place of employment of my lack of belief.
    I know about the comments if you're not christian. My ex-MIL who knew me for 12 years, knew I was a dedicated PICU nurse and loved my patients condemded me to hell when she found out I was pagan. After all, don't you know we sacrifice little kids for fun.
  4. by   Bipley
    Quote from tvccrn
    I know about the comments if you're not christian. My ex-MIL who knew me for 12 years, knew I was a dedicated PICU nurse and loved my patients condemded me to hell when she found out I was pagan. After all, don't you know we sacrifice little kids for fun.
    How DARE you value nature! What's wrong with you??? LOL

    Yes, I know what you mean. When I was going through my struggling years (trying to find a God I could believe in) I expressed this to a few of my friends. I was floored, they wouldn't even discuss the issue. I wasn't trying to convert anyone, I wasn't sure what *I* was. I was exploring and trying to make sense of something that didn't make sense to ME. I actually lost friends during that time. If I wasn't a full blown Catholic they wanted nothing to do with me.

    I'm much more careful about who I refer to as a friend now. But you know, these attitudes are no different in a hospital setting. You have people that you could be honest with and you have people that if you are honest, they call you a baby eater (or in your case, a baby sacrificer) . I don't know, maybe it is a lack of education, fear of the unknown, fear of society changing, I don't know. But things really need to change because I believe that it is around 13% of the US population is atheist and you guys, Pagans... you guys are doubling in size something like annually. (It's in the link I posted earlier). Paganism is THE fastest growing belief system in the US today while Christianity is on the decline.

    We all have to work together, it just seems like it would be nicer if we could do it in harmony. I'm just not sure how to do that, I'm not really ready to tell anyone at work I'm an atheist. Been burned too many times. I don't mean a professional setting, I mean personal relationships, social settings, etc.
    Last edit by Bipley on Nov 12, '05
  5. by   tridil2000
    From what I've seen the preferred religion of the government is Christianity.

    _________________________

    that's an insane statement.

    our money clearly states 'in god we trust', not in jesus!!!!

    the america i learned about in history was accepting of all religions. freedom to practice their religion was what attracted ALL the early colonists here.
  6. by   ZASHAGALKA
    OK, let me tie my discussion of sep of c/s back into this tread directly.

    Sep of c/s in a small Fed gov't is probably a tolerable error. In a big gov't, it's a disaster.

    Take education for instance. If I want to instill my beliefs in my children, then educating them w/ my values is a must. But since the Fed gov't is so involved in education, you have a situation where the very education of my children is subject to this philosophy of sep of c/s.

    In an all-invasive gov't, sep of c/s is all invasive.

    Ok, the tie in: each of you nurses are nurses because the State says you are. You are registered by the gov't. Regulated. If you discuss religion with a pt - a pt that specifically asks you about it - aren't you violating sep of c/s?

    Your teachers, police officers, post men, all around you, are gov't officials. The application of sep of c/s is Unconstitutional. But even if you could be swayed to agree with it in principle, the size of the gov't that you want to separate from religion makes it impossible to completely do so w/out stepping on the very rights this principle claims to protect.

    And that applies to you, too: your professionalism is a function of being regulated by the gov't.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Nov 11, '05
  7. by   Bipley
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    Ok, the tie in: each of you nurses are nurses because the State says you are. You are registered by the gov't. Regulated. If you discuss religion with a pt - a pt that specifically asks you about it - aren't you violating sep of c/s?
    WHAT? Are you serious? No, no violation of c/s issues. There is a difference between my professional license vs. Gov't sponsored events.

    You seriously need to look at the laws again because I believe you are missing out on a great deal of information. You appear to have an incorrect view of what the laws actually are.
    Last edit by Bipley on Nov 11, '05 : Reason: Spelling
  8. by   VivaLasViejas
    To my own way of thinking, bigotry is the EIGHTH deadly sin (and a good deal worse than sloth or gluttony, IMHO). No one has the right to make another person feel inferior because of his or her skin color, ethnicity, appearance, socio-economic status, or religion.......or lack thereof. It's something I think most people are guilty of from time to time---I know I have been---but it's still a crime against humanity, and it must be fought aggressively if we are ever to live in any sort of peace.

    Jesus said: "Judge not, lest ye also be judged." Regardless of whether an individual sees Him as the Son of God or merely as one of the many wise men of His time in history, these words are as true today as when He first said them. Treating others badly tends to come back and bite one in the butt. And as firmly as I believe in a Supreme Being, I'm not at all surprised at the growing backlash against the so-called 'religious right'. Who wants to be judged and preached at and made to feel inferior because their belief system isn't the "right" one?

    Then again, I don't believe that the true Christian behaves that way.......at least, not the kind of Christian who tries to live as Jesus did.

    'Nuff said.......by me, anyway.
  9. by   Bipley
    Quote from mjlrn97
    To my own way of thinking, bigotry is the EIGHTH deadly sin (and a good deal worse than sloth or gluttony, IMHO). No one has the right to make another person feel inferior because of his or her skin color, ethnicity, appearance, socio-economic status, or religion.......or lack thereof. It's something I think most people are guilty of from time to time---I know I have been---but it's still a crime against humanity, and it must be fought aggressively if we are ever to live in any sort of peace.

    Jesus said: "Judge not, lest ye also be judged." Regardless of whether an individual sees Him as the Son of God or merely as one of the many wise men of His time in history, these words are as true today as when He first said them. Treating others badly tends to come back and bite one in the butt. And as firmly as I believe in a Supreme Being, I'm not at all surprised at the growing backlash against the so-called 'religious right'. Who wants to be judged and preached at and made to feel inferior because their belief system isn't the "right" one?

    Then again, I don't believe that the true Christian behaves that way.......at least, not the kind of Christian who tries to live as Jesus did.

    'Nuff said.......by me, anyway.
    Wow, thank you. Great post!
  10. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from Bipley
    WHAT? Are you serious? No, no violation of c/s issues. There is a difference between my professional license vs. Gov't sponsered events.

    You seriously need to look at the laws again because I believe you are missing out on a great deal of information. You appear to have an incorrect view of what the laws actually are.
    I'm not proposing that your licensure is a sep of c/s issue, yet.

    But with every passing day, the provision of healthcare becomes more a state sponsored event. How many hospitals do you know that could function without medicare payments?

    When does the tide turn enough that your professional practice is indeed a gov't sponsored event?

    Look, dismiss for a second that religion is about the worship of a Deity, for the sake of argument. Most of religious content is about the moral codes of societal interaction. When you ban those in the name of sep of c/s, you ban the basic principles that provide for our civility.

    Even if you believe that religion is a contrivance of man, by dismissing it, you dismiss the very motivations that required its 'invention'. And religion is such a big thing in the lives of humans, that you have to admit, even if you don't believe in God, that there is a pervasive reason why men do.

    Otherwise, it wouldn't be such a universal phenomenom. So the question becomes, what are you throwing out w/ the bathwater? What is it about religion that has such a pull?

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Nov 11, '05
  11. by   Bipley
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    Look, dismiss for a second that religion is about the worship of a Deity, for the sake of argument. Most of religious content is about the moral codes of societal interaction. When you ban those in the name of sep of c/s, you ban the basic principles that provide for our civility.
    As amazing as it is, atheists... those with no religion, no God, no religious rules, we are quite able to maintain a modicum of morality. I know I know... weird - yet true.

    Personally I would be more concerned about those that feel the ONLY reason they maintain morality and NOT kill people is because they will suffer an eternity of punishment if they do. Sometimes we don't want to harm others just because it's wrong.

    Let us not forget, morality and laws of the land existed long before religion did. In order for a society to survive people must work together and refrain from harming each other. This is basic instinct, not religion that is responsible for this.

    Look, if you happen to need religion to prevent yourself from behaving badly, then all the power to you! Go to church, do whatever it is that you do. But please don't assume that it takes religion for all of us to be nice people in society or in the work place.

    I understand what you are saying, honestly I do. I don't agree with it in the least but I understand your point. But what I don't think you are considering is that both theists and atheists alike could be insulted by your comments. While I realize that isn't your intent, I think you might want to look at the bigger picture of your posts.

    What you are saying is either:

    Theists (those with a God) only behave themselves and refrain from harming others because they will be punished if they don't (not giving a of credit to theists here, are you?) ...

    Or,

    Atheists (those without a God) are unable to prevent themselves from harming others because they have no God, no morality, and they should be feared. (not a lot of credit there either)

    Either way, aren't you insulting a whole lot of people here? Again, I fully realize this isn't your intent, but it is the end result.
  12. by   Jo Dirt
    [quote=Kabin]
    Quote from Catsmeow
    As I said before, I'm not spiritual, I've tried the magical thought/lifestyle change and it wasn't logical for me. And there's no misunderstanding on my part as I questioned the instructor numerous times when I was troubled. It sounds more like you are projecting some of your own views to discount my concerns about the orginal question/issue.


    Good for you, I hope it helps out!
    I'm not spiritual, either. Obviously, I don't believe religion or spirituality are necessary to be a good health care provider. In fact, I think it is possible religion might be a hinderance to the job. Again, it depends on the person and whether or not they can put their beliefs aside when it comes to their work.
  13. by   Jo Dirt
    Quote from Bipley
    As amazing as it is, atheists... those with no religion, no God, no religious rules, we are quite able to maintain a modicum of morality. I know I know... weird - yet true.

    Personally I would be more concerned about those that feel the ONLY reason they maintain morality and NOT kill people is because they will suffer an eternity of punishment if they do. Sometimes we don't want to harm others just because it's wrong.
    This has been the way I've felt for a long time. Like prisoners who suddenly turn to God after a murderous rampage when they are locked away from being able to kill anymore.
    Too bad God didn't decide to reach out to them before they did what they did.

    No possessions AND NO RELIGION, TOO.

close