Should Healthcare Be Funded As A Basic Human Right? Should Healthcare Be Funded As A Basic Human Right? - pg.15 | allnurses

Should Healthcare Be Funded As A Basic Human Right? - page 15

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  1. Visit  wooh profile page
    Well you added your question after I read the post. People should do what they can. I'm not saying we should pay for luxury vacations for everyone. I'm saying we should pay to keep people healthy. I'm not willing to punish those who are working poor just so I can punish the few that are "moochers." The people IN THIS THREAD that can't afford healthcare. My MOTHER who can't afford healthcare. I'm more interested in HELPING them than I am in PUNISHING others.
    Besides, I try to judge not lest I be judged. Sure, you're a hardworking guy. But you aren't perfect. If we were to open up your life to judgment, I'm sure we could find a few failings, even if you've managed to get a job that covers your healthcare. A lot of people who can't afford healthcare are in other ways, MUCH BETTER people than I am. I'm not willing to sentence them to death.
  2. Visit  Fiona59 profile page
    After reading this I've come to a conclusion seeing as generalizations are being made.

    Americans are "everyman for himself"

    Europeans, Canadians, Australians believe in the greater good for all.

    Or bluntly selfish vs. sharing.

    Flame away, I've got bags and bags of marshmallows and a couch to hide behind.
  3. Visit  tewdles profile page
    Quote from PRICHARILLAisMISSED
    Sometimes we agree tewdles, sometimes we don't. Here you make good points. My only problem is that you don't seem to want to hold some of those "Less fortunate" accountable for anything. I don't mind helping the less fortunate as long as they are also trying to be responsible. But I don't want to do more for them than they are willing to do for themselves.
    I don't make generalizations about the willingness of the poor to do for themselves. I worked with the uninsured and under insured for more than a decade. For the most part they were hard working people who cared about their families and were trying to get ahead...that's as general as I can get.

    I refuse to accept that this great nation has no capacity to insure that each citizen has access to reasonable preventative and comprehensive health care.
  4. Visit  PRICHARILLAisMISSED profile page
    Quote from wooh
    Well you added your question after I read the post. People should do what they can.

    Ok. But if healthcare funding becomes automatic, then there is no incentive for people to pay what they can. It will be just one more reason not to work and contribute. And for some people, paying what they can means to give whatever is left over after paying for cable, internet, ridiculous amounts of shoes and all kinds of things that they want but don't necessarily need. Making funding a right just makes it so much easier on them because then they don't even have to justify anything. They don't even have to put on a show.

    I'm not saying we should pay for luxury vacations for everyone. I'm saying we should pay to keep people healthy. I'm not willing to punish those who are working poor just so I can punish the few that are "moochers." The people IN THIS THREAD that can't afford healthcare. My MOTHER who can't afford healthcare. I'm more interested in HELPING them than I am in PUNISHING others.

    So am I! So why not put programs in place to specifically address these "hard working people who cannot otherwise afford healthcare" instead of a blanket action that covers those who take advantage of the system?


    Besides, I try to judge not lest I be judged. Sure, you're a hardworking guy. But you aren't perfect. If we were to open up your life to judgment, I'm sure we could find a few failings, even if you've managed to get a job that covers your healthcare. A lot of people who can't afford healthcare are in other ways, MUCH BETTER people than I am. I'm not willing to sentence them to death.

    It's not that I look around hoping to find failings in people so I can judge them and put them down. But in my short life I've been exposed to so many people who take advantage of the system that I just can't say that "It is only a few so let's officially make funding a right to all citizens," because I know that will only make it even easier for many people to not take care of themselves.
    Also, you will find a hell of a lot more than "A few failings" if you were to put my life under a microscope. But I always made sure that my failings were my failings. It was always up to me to fix them, not anyone else.
  5. Visit  tewdles profile page
    Again...health care expenses are not necessarily about an individual's failures or personal weaknesses. Bad things happen to good people all the time...there is even a book or two about that.
  6. Visit  PRICHARILLAisMISSED profile page
    Quote from tewdles
    Again...health care expenses are not necessarily about an individual's failures or personal weaknesses. Bad things happen to good people all the time...there is even a book or two about that.
    I know that. That is why I said that we could start programs to help those people get back on their feet. What I'm against is a blanket program that also covers system abusers. I'm sure I've stated this several times in this thread. But it is apparently constantly overlooked.

    I'm sure that it has nothing to do with the posters selective reading
  7. Visit  tewdles profile page
    Quote from PRICHARILLAisMISSED
    I know that. That is why I said that we could start programs to help those people get back on their feet. What I'm against is a blanket program that also covers system abusers. I'm sure I've stated this several times in this thread. But it is apparently constantly overlooked.

    I'm sure that it has nothing to do with the posters selective reading
    Are you advocating starting governmental programs other than medicaid and welfare to help people get back on their feet?

    You do realize that the greatest $$ abuse of medicaid and medicare occurs not on the part of the recipient but on the part of providers, right?
  8. Visit  PRICHARILLAisMISSED profile page
    Quote from tewdles
    1q. Are you advocating starting governmental programs other than medicaid and welfare to help people get back on their feet?

    2q. You do realize that the greatest $$ abuse of medicaid and medicare occurs not on the part of the recipient but on the part of providers, right?
    1a. Yes, I am all for starting government programs other than medicaid and welfare to help people get back on their feet. Absolutely I am-with the catch being that they must be actively helping themselves get back on their feet. I'm 100% for that. I would be 101% for it, but the powers that govern numbers and percentages simply do not allow that

    The programs should be less broad in scope that what the article speaks of. This is to minimize the number loopholes for system abusers to take advantage of.

    2a. Healthcare funding becoming a right just gives the providers MANY more opportunities to abuse medicaid and medicare. Unfortunately to minimize this actions that I am not qualified to figure out would me necessary.

    Though, like I said in an earlier post, I believe that making it less lucrative to sue healthcare providers will cut costs dramatically. That is a large problem in this country-litigation. these days if you're clumsy and fall down a flight of steps you can sue the owner of those steps for everything he has. I truly believe that getting rid of the litigation problem will help this country in SO many ways, and this includes healthcare.
  9. Visit  Ntheboat2 profile page
    Quote from PRICHARILLAisMISSED

    I grew up on handouts (as did my parents) THE WAY I GREW UP IS WHY I KNOW WHAT I KNOW!!!!!!!!
    So, you grew up on handouts and that is why you're so informed about how terrible they are.

    YOU were fed, clothed, and had your healthcare bill taken care of via handouts by your own admission. Don't you think that helped you be the person you are today? What if you didn't get to go to the doctor when you were sick because there were no handouts as you call them? What if you went to bed hungry because there were no evil handouts? Do you think you'd be where you are now?

    It just amazes me that someone who took advantage of handouts (even if you didn't sign up for them, you grew up thanks to them) can accept the help and judge others for doing the same thing.

    The fact that you didn't go to bed hungry or sleep in the street thanks to "handouts" is exactly the reason it's even more baffling that you have a problem with other people having the same benefit.

    Not to mention....you said you weren't raised by your biological mother. So, apparently the mother who raised you was the one who got handouts to take care of you. People do what they have to do to get by. Some people dump off their kids and never look back. Some people plan on having their children when they can afford them (ideally), and then some people step up to clean up other people's messes and need help to be able to do that. Apparently your mother "did what she had to do" to make sure you were fed, and doing what she had to do included accepting handouts apparently.
  10. Visit  PRICHARILLAisMISSED profile page
    And here we go again...


    Quote from Ntheboat2
    So, you grew up on handouts and that is why you're so informed about how terrible they are.

    YES


    YOU were fed, clothed, and had your healthcare bill taken care of via handouts by your own admission. Don't you think that helped you be the person you are today?

    YES.

    What if you didn't get to go to the doctor when you were sick because there were no handouts as you call them?

    I'd have been screwed due to my parents lack of drive and laziness. But it was my parents responsibility, not the taxpayers, and my parents should have paid the bills. But because they had no drive and chose to milk the system they didn't. I still stand by the opinion that it wasn't right.

    What if you went to bed hungry because there were no evil handouts? Do you think you'd be where you are now?

    I went to bed hungry MANY times! And I like to believe that I would be far better off today than I am now if I had more responsible parents to guide me and set an example instead of them being reliant upon the "kindness of strangers." Well, to be fair, my dad worked his @$$ off, but it was off the books so he didn't pay taxes for the most part.


    It just amazes me that someone who took advantage of handouts (even if you didn't sign up for them, you grew up thanks to them) can accept the help and judge others for doing the same thing.

    As you said, I didn't sign up for them and didn't have a choice. I didn't get to 'Accept" anything. But when I was 15 I moved out and supported myself.


    The fact that you didn't go to bed hungry or sleep in the street thanks to "handouts" is exactly the reason it's even more baffling that you have a problem with other people having the same benefit.

    I have a problem with people living on nothing but them (for like the fifth time that I said this now) and not trying to better themselves in the mean time.

    Not to mention....you said you weren't raised by your biological mother. So, apparently the mother who raised you was the one who got handouts to take care of you.

    I'm not sure what that has to do with anything...


    People do what they have to do to get by. Some people dump off their kids and never look back. Some people plan on having their children when they can afford them (ideally), and then some people step up to clean up other people's messes and need help to be able to do that. Apparently your mother "did what she had to do" to make sure you were fed, and doing what she had to do included accepting handouts apparently. She didn't "Do what she had to do," because she hasn't worked a day in MY entire life. She took the path of least resistance. She took the easy way out plain and simple. Doesn't mean I didn't care about her or love her, but it does mean that she was an unnecessary burden on society (I say UNNECESSARY because she was fully capable of working but chose not to [along with the rest of the neighborhoods I grew up in])
    Last edit by PRICHARILLAisMISSED on Dec 14, '12
  11. Visit  Ntheboat2 profile page
    Quote from PRICHARILLAisMISSED
    And here we go again...
    Since when is taking on the job of raising a kid that's not yours choosing the path of least resistance? Anyone who has actually raised a child (biological at that) knows it's not an easy one.

    You sound like one of those right wing loons who preach "pro life" propaganda and then don't consider anything that happens once the fetus is no longer a fetus. There are very few people who would take on the job of raising a child and even fewer who would do it or could afford to do it with no financial help.

    She may have "chose" not to work, but it sounds like she "chose" not to have a child either, but is still criticized for taking "handouts" to care for the child. Apparently, not only should people who have children they can't afford not be able to get assistance, but the people who step up and take care of unwanted children shouldn't either.

    That would explain why so many of the pro-life advocates have homes full of children they fight to keep alive!
  12. Visit  PRICHARILLAisMISSED profile page
    Quote from Ntheboat2
    Since when is taking on the job of raising a kid that's not yours choosing the path of least resistance? Anyone who has actually raised a child (biological at that) knows it's not an easy one.

    Look, it's not like I want to vilify my mother, but when looked at objectively she really didn't raise me so much as let me stick around. I mean I pretty much did what was expected of me, so very little teaching was necessary on her part. I never needed help with homework. I never got any real encouragement other than the cop out statement "You can be anything you want to be, Jaime." Really, she didn't put much effort into me, not to say she wouldn't have, but it was never necessary. And by me saying "She chose the path of least resistance," I was referring to her not actually fulfilling her responsibility to raise the child she took in because she relied on the state to do it. So if anything having me benefitted her as she may not have qualified for the handouts for as long as she did if I wasn't there to begin with.

    You sound like one of those right wing loons who preach "pro life" propaganda and then don't consider anything that happens once the fetus is no longer a fetus. There are very few people who would take on the job of raising a child and even fewer who would do it or could afford to do it with no financial help.

    I'm not right wing. But I will never be ok with killing a child. Ever. Especially for no reason other than because the child will too much of an inconvenience to its parents. Because THAT (the inconvenience) is what it's really about. And I make no apologies for thinking that way.

    She may have "chose" not to work, but it sounds like she "chose" not to have a child either, but is still criticized for taking "handouts" to care for the child. Apparently, not only should people who have children they can't afford not be able to get assistance, but the people who step up and take care of unwanted children shouldn't either.

    How many times are you going to overlook the fact that I've said (I don't know how many times at this point) that I am not against helping anyone who is also trying to help themselves? In my mother's case, she was not trying to help herself so "NO," I do not believe she deserved the assistance she was receiving. Unfortunately there are millions of others who are abusing the system just like she did.

    That would explain why so many of the pro-life advocates have homes full of children they fight to keep alive!

    So to qualify as being "Pro-life" in your eyes, I have to have a house full of children? It's not enough to raise the ones I chose (Never planned on but still had) to have?
    Soooo.....

    I addressed every point in your last post and you come back with this crap... I expect better, Ntheboat2. I expect more from you

    (Damn, I really wish I knew how to use other emoticons than the smiley and winking smiley. Would've been a nice cherry on top of this response...)
    Last edit by PRICHARILLAisMISSED on Dec 15, '12 : Reason: Author's Godlike attention to detail did not translate in original posting
  13. Visit  Ntheboat2 profile page
    Quote from PRICHARILLAisMISSED
    Soooo.....

    I addressed every point in your last post and you come back with this crap... I expect better, Ntheboat2. I expect more from you

    (Damn, I really wish I knew how to use other emoticons than the smiley and winking smiley. Would've been a nice cherry on top of this response...)
    Is there some point in particular or question I didn't address?

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