Part of Health Care Law Ruled Unconstitutional

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the judge did not throw out the entire law, just the mandate requirement, and he rejected the request from virginia's republican attorney general for an injunction to block implementation of the law.

without a mandate i think insurance companies will increase premiums and find additional ways to exclude people from coverage who cost them money because they have to pay for their care.

the white house is saying that without an individual mandate the provisions requiring insurers to cover people with pre-existing conditions and barring insurers from dropping sick people are probably unlikely to go into effect.

i'm almost certain this will go to the supreme court.

december 13, 2010

judge voids key part of health care law

a federal district judge in virginia ruled on monday that the keystone provision in the obama health care law is unconstitutional, becoming the first court in the country to invalidate any part of the sprawling act and ensuring that appellate courts will receive contradictory opinions from below. ...

... in a 42-page opinion issued in richmond, va., judge hudson wrote that the law's central requirement that most americans obtain health insurance exceeds the regulatory authority granted to congress under the commerce clause of the constitution.

the insurance mandate is central to the law's mission of covering more than 30 million uninsured because insurers argue that only by requiring healthy people to have policies can they afford to treat those with expensive chronic conditions. ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/14/health/policy/14health.html?src=mv

a little late coming back to this party.... :D

[do you think the pre existing clause in " obamacare " a good thing ?. if the mandate isremoved the insurance companies will get the preexisting clause removed ( they will say and because of the way insurance works , i agree ,that offering insurance under these conditions would not be economically viable for them ) .so the option for the young to buy insurance when they have a preexisting condition will be unavailable and we the tax payers will be on the hook for their care if they cannot pay ( who else would be left to pay ? ). ]

i think eggs and milk are good things....it doesn't make cake healthy though, does it? tax payers are on the hook for the few young with pec's anyway....so nothing changed there.

[reading recently about arizona denying care to cancer patients , so states with mixed private / state paid healthcare are in the same boat .] point being what....?

[the same way as i am at present ie. by spreading the risk my payments are at present ,but rather than give my $$'s to a privatecorporation , driven by profit , that goes to it's corporate officers , my dollars will go via taxes to pay for the healthcare without having to pay to creat profit . ] no, it doesn't create a profit, it goes into the pocket of a political crony (who sometimes is also a ceo of a private corp)! trillions of dollars borrowed in the economic "stimulus" for "shovel ready projects" and not one thin dime has been spent on that. you trust them to do the right thing? wow.

[or you may loose it all in the next financial meltdown , or to the next bernie madoff .] no, this is non-applicable. the first financial meltdown came from the govt strong arming banks to give loans to those who were never qualified and also because folks - trying to keep up with the joneses, bought bigger houses (greed) on low variable aprs and couldn't afford the payment when it became due. i have a good job. i have a mortgage i can afford. i didn't lose my house in the fl housing crash. and i don't take the kind of risks that those who 'invested' with the likes of a bernie madoff.

[( addressed by another contributor )]

the wmd included a cache of 155mm rounds filled with mustard gas, not traces of a chemical. the military had to keep it classified. if we went out there bragging about what we found and what we were going to do with it....while in the middle east (among the "extremists" and in their territory) where they can attack us and take it back......?

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/10/wikileaks-show-wmd-hunt-continued-in-iraq-with-surprising-results/

but those blogs that said it was just a "little bit" on old ordinance....won't be left bloggers, would it? the minimization of the finds was to emphasize one find of only 10 rounds, "saddam-era" and in disrepair.. and found in 2008.

[upon this alone we can agree !!]

the whole point is, the guy from wikileaks was so narcissistic, he didn't care who's lies he exposed! which exposed liars on the both the right and the left. and all those that mocked the right for believing in wmd, hearing it during pillow talk...knowing it was real.... argh!

in the news today they brought up the fact that there is no severablity clause in the hcr legislation. if the sc ultimately finds that the individual mandate is unconstitutional, it will knock out the entire law.

you didn't address the fact that when faced with $500/mo premium on minimal income (of the young healthy) vs. $700 or whatever fine.....the fine is cheaper. the young healthy will still not be buying insurance. the pre-existing clause issue will then bankrupt the ins co's. one can say that they will raise the ins premiums....but i would venture to guess that the govt will step in and say "premiums are getting out of hand so we are going to tell you (regulate) how much you can charge...."

imho, you are taking a system that worked for the majority to fix it for a minority and broke it for both.

I do not understand why people think that socializing healthcare removes the profit motive. All it does is shift it from the more efficient private sector to government bureaucracy which, being a monopoly by definition, has no vested interest in efficiency.

dp1200 and FLmom

Ya need to look around a little bit further than your own nose and take in the big picture here. Our healthcare system is not working efficiently or fine for the majority who have insurance. We spend more per capita than any country in world and using apples to apples measures rank below average. Ok, so what. The real problem with this is that healthcare costs are sucking the life out of economy. Wages for the average worker adjusted for inflation have decreased steadily because the insurance companies are getting the raises not us. These constantly rising costs are also incurred by public employees and hence the constant increase in local / real estate taxes. My specialty in nursing for the past 13 years has been utilization. I spend 40 hours a week asking, is this necessary at this level of care? And I have learned a lot about how our system works. The most obvious aspect of our system is that providers get paid for doing things to patients and not for outcome. Studies (Dartmouth Atlas e.g.) have shown clearly that more is not better. HMOs were supposed to have controlled unnecessary medicine but have failed, finding it easier to just pass the cost on to the employer. Medicare and Medicaid barely even look at utilization and are looking at explosive increases in recipients due to the baby boomers. More companies were dropping insurance or passing increased costs to employees further reducing their spendable income. The trend is unsustainable. We were looking over the precipice and the ACA is a step back.

I have to address this comment:

“Government bureaucracy which, being a monopoly by definition, has no vested interest in efficiency."

Wow, where do I start... Ok, let me just reiterate that our current for profit system has no interest, by definition, in anything but making profit. Efficiently doing what does not need to be done is not in the public interest. To equate a monopoly held by the government (which is all the people of the country, may I remind you) to a monopoly by a single corporation that has no interest other than its own is a grave misconception.

Actually, the statement scares me because I think it accurately reflects the sentiment of too many that the government is to be feared for its incompetency in protecting and defending its people than unfettered capitalism with its increasing efficiency in threatening our wellbeing.

More, now than ever we need a strong government with the full support of the American people to check the ambitions of BPs, Morgan Stanleys, Massey Energys, Monsantos, Big Pharma, Big Agra an on and on who have no interest other than own and touch our lives every day without us even being aware.

Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.

the founding fathers did not support an individual healthcare mandate...

...they supported socialized medicine. last week, forbes writer rick ungar made the following historical observation:

in july of 1798, congress passed - and president john adams signed - "an act for the relief of sick and disabled seamen." the law authorized the creation of a government operated marine hospital service and mandated that privately employed sailors be required to purchase health care insurance.

keep in mind that the 5th congress did not really need to struggle over the intentions of the drafters of the constitutions in creating this act as many of its members were the drafters of the constitution.

and when the bill came to the desk of president john adams for signature, i think it's safe to assume that the man in that chair had a pretty good grasp on what the framers had in mind....

http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/01/17/congress-passes-socialized-medicine-and-mandates-health-insurance-in-1798/

Wow, I don't know what to say. I've seen stretches to try to justify socialized medicine in the US, but, no personal offense intended, this one takes the cake. I'm not sure what liberal blog this came from, but this is nothing whatsoever akin to what Obamacare is trying to do, and is a horribly weak argument on which to hang hopes for socialized medicine. I've only had a few moments to go over this, but here are a few problems I see right off the bat trying to use this obscure 213 year old law to justify the sweeping socialization of our healthcare system.

1) The act imposed a 20 cent per month tax on seamen's wages, to be withheld by the employer, with all the withheld taxes to be turned over to the U.S. Treasury on a quarterly basis, with the revenue being expended in the district where it was collected. The revenue was then to be spent on supporting sick and injured seamen. To extend this idea to the whole population, all this example supports is the institution of a universal flat tax, with everyone paying the same amount towards whatever government service they're supposed to get back out of it. This is certainly NOT what will happen with a national socialist healthcare policy.

2) This was a targeted program (affecting only sailors) which treated everyone the same (all had the same $0.20/mo withheld), all of whom received the same level of benefit in return. Again, nothing like a universal socialist healthcare system.

3) If you weren't a sailor, you didn't pay into the system (thereby giving you a means to avoid the tax if you disagreed with it), nor did you derive benefits from it. Again, nothing like a universal socialist policy, which your only recourse to avoid is death.

I find it terribly depressing that we are now raising and "educating" people in this country who are now reaching adulthood with the sincere belief that our founding fathers, after fighting a terrible war for liberation, actually wanted a socialist country with a central government possessing essentially unlimited power (which is unavoidable and necessary to enact and enforce socialist policy). :crying2:

dp, I'm just a stupid liberal blinded by my ideiology, so, I wonder if you could explain in a simple but specific manner; in what way is the Affordable Care Act socialistic?

dp I'm just a stupid liberal blinded by my ideiology, so, I wonder if you could explain in a simple but specific manner; in what way is the Affordable Care Act socialistic?[/quote']

d'cm, ACA isn't all that socialist - it's actually more of a crony-capitalist / plutocracy sort of thing (which was bad when George Bush was doing it, remember?).

That wasn't the point of my last post, wherein I was merely responding to the previous poster who was trying to claim that our founding fathers wanted socialist healthcare.

Obamacare may very well lead to a socialist (single-payer, government-run) health care system once it destroys what we have now, but in and of itself, Obamacare really isn't all that socialist as it stands now. It's merely unConstitutional.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

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