New Health Care Bill

[rodmoser]

I was interested how everyone feels about the new health care bill and more importantly how will it effect the nursing field?? (Salary, jobs growth etc.)??

[kcmylorn]

cpl- perhaps to understand my post you should do some reading in Sociology, more specifically, reading under subcultures and why they exist. I believe the sociologists have well documented the effects of poverty, high unemployment in certain areas of our country such as Lousiana, Alabama, Miss.- the three poorest states in our country with the highest unemployment rates. Meth labs seem to be more in abundance there and in the W.Va and Carolina's- 3 other lower income states. When one considers how easy it is to purchase the common chemicals to make meth- it is no big surprise that some will purchase these chemicals from the grocery stores, walmarts etc and find a way to make the substance to make money especially when they live in the above mentioned states where there are no jobs. Perhaps you would be of better 'service' to your patients by delving into the causes of illness and injury that land your particular patient population into 'your' unit in your geographic location. In other words- take a cue from your patients to learn something instead of bashing and attempting to discredit other posters which is non productive, unprofessional, bullying and down right mean spirited.. This is not Afghanistan, this is a professional nursing form.

[cpl_dvldog]

cpl- perhaps to understand my post you should do some reading in Sociology, more specifically, reading under subcultures and why they exist. I believe the sociologists have well documented the effects of poverty, high unemployment in certain areas of our country such as Lousiana, Alabama, Miss.- the three poorest states in our country with the highest unemployment rates. Meth labs seem to be more in abundance there and in the W.Va and Carolina's- 3 other lower income states. When one considers how easy it is to purchase the common chemicals to make meth- it is no big surprise that some will purchase these chemicals from the grocery stores, walmarts etc and find a way to make the substance to make money especially when they live in the above mentioned states where there are no jobs. Perhaps you would be of better 'service' to your patients by delving into the causes of illness and injury that land your particular patient population into 'your' unit in your geographic location. In other words- take a cue from your patients to learn something instead of bashing and attempting to discredit other posters which is non productive, unprofessional, bullying and down right mean spirited.. This is not Afghanistan, this is a professional nursing form.

Have already taken Sociology. Even before taking it I knew all cultures have the well-off, the poor, the hard working, and the lazy. I live and work in one of the three "poorest" states you mentioned. Trust me, we are not so ignorant that we have to turn to manufacturing illegal drugs in order to survive. You may want to believe it is the young father or the single mother that has turned to processing meth in order to feed their kids. The vast majority of the time it is some guy in his 20's that wants to make quick easy money. He would rather do that than leave the drugs alone and get a job. I doubt there is little of use I could learn from these people.

You are correct, this is a professional nursing forum. Justifying the manufacture, distribution, and/or use of illegal drugs is not very professional. Especially when you have the superior attitude of, they live in certain states so they really don't know any better or they don't have any other choice.

[silentRN]

We just need to admit it, the healthcare issue in the US is insolvable. I don't believe there is really a solution that will "fix" the problem. This new healthcare bill isn't socialism, since all that it is doing is mandating that each individual buy insurance and that employers provide insurance if they have more than 50 employees. What it does it get people off of the government and pushes the responsibility to the individual. It was an attempt to reduce the burden of the government, but they also allowed subsidizing those who live under a certain income level; so in reality it's going to add on to government spending because 1 out of 2 Americans now receive government assistance and/or live in poverty.

I believe Obama should of focused on getting the US government out of the red and into the black before tackling such a huge problem that we just can not afford. It made no sense to me that in 2009 when the economy was in shambles, that this was the priority, and not controlling deficit spending and printing money.

[cpl_dvldog]

We just need to admit it, the healthcare issue in the US is insolvable. I don't believe there is really a solution that will "fix" the problem. This new healthcare bill isn't socialism, since all that it is doing is mandating that each individual buy insurance and that employers provide insurance if they have more than 50 employees. What it does it get people off of the government and pushes the responsibility to the individual. It was an attempt to reduce the burden of the government, but they also allowed subsidizing those who live under a certain income level; so in reality it's going to add on to government spending because 1 out of 2 Americans now receive government assistance and/or live in poverty.

I believe Obama should of focused on getting the US government out of the red and into the black before tackling such a huge problem that we just can not afford. It made no sense to me that in 2009 when the economy was in shambles, that this was the priority, and not controlling deficit spending and printing money.

Also all of the big unions getting waivers does not sit well with people. If it is such a grand plan that the unions were backing why did they feel the need to be exempted?

I also don't believe there is a fix for our health care system that would satisfy the majority, even a Canadian style system. From my understanding everyone in Canada pays into their Federal Gov't which funds their system. Unlike us who have millions that do not contribute. For us it would essentially be about half the country supporting the entire country. That is not financially sustainable, especially after the majority of the baby boomers become retired.

[AprettynewRN]

Not that this has ANYTHING do with nursing but I can't help but wondering where you went for that Hazard pay... I saw at the Defense Dept. they were getting like 30% and up hazard pay increases to go work in the mid-east and retiring early.

While I agree that people need to take responsiblity (namely, smoking, diet, and exercise, medication compliance, etc) but you're wrong if you think that's all there is to it the past decade. Automation and globalization of white collar jobs are the big culprits and our infrastructure is so old and crumbling.

Reality is naught of this has anything to do with a less than 3 year into one term President, ARRA Hitech or the Affordable Care Act.

It is unfortunate that most people who spend their time ranting about these acts couldn't cite what's in any of these things (intelligently) nor probably even know what the acronyms stand for. Yet they are so emotionally invested in their polemic rants they'll spend hours telling you why they are the worst thing since the avian flu virus. That's fine if that's what works for you. It's when you start promoting it as FACTUAL that it gets a little sticky...

Actually there's one heck of a lot of great things in both of the above acts that will save our nation tremendous amounts of dollars and might even save medicare for US when we retire.

you don't like HIPPA? Are you SURE? Because without it your private medical records would very likely be available to aggregators (who are as we type filing lawsuits trying to obtain them). Think (yes think) about that. Youthink it's hard to find a job NOW? Wait till employers can buy data that tells them if applicants have diabetes or a family history of cardiac disease, cancer or m.s. (If your favored Republicans get control of the Senate and the Presidency next election better prepare for that one too.)

Not that the rants about taxes have ANYTHING do with nursing but my guess is you're paying for the healthcare of low income and poor Americans because Walmart isn't at least as much as any supposed free offering of the Presidents. Throw in the fact that taxes have steadily been taken off the very wealthy and the big transnationals and onto the middle class since the 80's and no doubt we ALL feel pinched. But we couldn't have the Vanderbilts, Von Ross and the Koch's pay taxes after all , those abundant job creators! That would be socialism!

Well, then, better get used to feeling pinched .

Well, now I'm done because really not one bit of this has a whole lot to do with day to day nursing, other than of course those uninsured, underemployed souls we have increasingly as patients.

PS - I feel compelled to say that Diabetes 2 is a GLOBAL epidemic now spiraling health care cost and chaos globally rather than just with the countrymen and patients you demonstrate such contempt for.

[AprettynewRN]

I think I would modify that from "unsolveable" (nearly every other industrialized nation has solved it) to unsolveable in this toxic political climate. And that's really sad; because every time we're unable to solve something because the nation is so polarized, ultimately the middle class gets to take it in the pants. For example you will hear virtually all of the right (except those runing for President) say that the nation can't afford to pay the middle class "entitlements" that we here paid for two generations ahead of us to get so that the Rockefellers can keep their tax free status. Note: I agree with you 100% that austerity was the worst possible move in the late economy. More importantly so did those with INFORMED opinions and much of history. Well, the tea party radicals got their way again and the nation got it's bond rating reduced and the middle class took it in the pants in their 401k mutual funds again...

[AprettynewRN]

Also all of the big unions getting waivers does not sit well with people. If it is such a grand plan that the unions were backing why did they feel the need to be exempted?

I also don't believe there is a fix for our health care system that would satisfy the majority, even a Canadian style system. From my understanding everyone in Canada pays into their Federal Gov't which funds their system. Unlike us who have millions that do not contribute. For us it would essentially be about half the country supporting the entire country. That is not financially sustainable, especially after the majority of the baby boomers become retired.

Don't be silly. Unions don't provide benefit plans for their members. Rather they NEGOTIATE contracts with member employers. Sheesh.

From your understanding?? You've claimed to know all about everything from the ACA and HIPPA to the pay of the Defense Department and sociology yet interestingly you never provide a source for your opinions!

MY own understanding was that the system is provincial with the federal govt only subsidising sporificely populated provinces as needed out of general revenues.

Regardless, how could unemployed , disabled, and elderly be paying into their system anymore than they do here?

What I WOULD agree with is that the USA has always had a much bigger underclass than Canada and it does have a much denser population and that introduces additional problems into the model. But the lion reason for their lower per capita health care costs lies with simplification and reduced administrative costs.

[cpl_dvldog]

Not sure who your garbled rant was directed toward but if you were asking about MY time in Iraq I was not a $100K a year civilian worker. I was a lowly Navy Seabee, and yes we got an extra $150 a MONTH for being in an imminent Danger Pay Area (Combat Pay). Serving in combat does not make you elgible for early retirement either.

"Automation and globalization of white collar jobs are the big culprits and our infrastructure is so old and crumbling." This is the cause of the health care crisis or unemployment in America? Say what? Automation may be the cause of some lost jobs, but the rest of what you said?

When does the economy belong to Obama? It has been 3 years and all he has done is spend money we don't have with The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act with no improvement at all, and he is asking Congress for another Trillion dollars. All of those "shovel ready" jobs apparently were missing the shovels.

HIPPA? Not sure who said they didn't like HIPPA. When the gov't controls your medical care it will have all of your medical records just like the IRS has your tax records. All information will be centralized. We all know how safe stuff is that the gov't controls (Wikileaks).

Yes, some of those programs will save money, but when you spend more than you save that is not a good deal. Explain how adding 30 Million people onto insurance will save money. Especially when the vast majority of them do not have the money to pay the premiums, so someone else will have to pay.

I don't have a clue what you were talking about with the Walmart statement. Over the years my taxes have DECREASED with the lower tax rate, more money allowed for child credits, home improvement tax credits, cash for clunkers, etc.

The liberals and Obama are so fixated on Bush they still refer to the tax extension as the Bush tax cuts. Obama has signed it into law twice giving ALL Americans the tax credits. Shouldn't they be called the Obama tax credits by now?

I would bet the rich people you mentioned pay more in taxes in one month than you have paid in your entire life. What percentage of their money do you feel you are entitled to?

[cpl_dvldog]

Don't be silly. Unions don't provide benefit plans for their members. Rather they NEGOTIATE contracts with member employers. Sheesh.

From your understanding?? You've claimed to know all about everything from the ACA and HIPPA to the pay of the Defense Department and sociology yet interestingly you never provide a source for your opinions!

MY own understanding was that the system is provincial with the federal govt only subsidising sporificely populated provinces as needed out of general revenues.

Regardless, how could unemployed , disabled, and elderly be paying into their system anymore than they do here?

What I WOULD agree with is that the USA has always had a much bigger underclass than Canada and it does have a much denser population and that introduces additional problems into the model. But the lion reason for their lower per capita health care costs lies with simplification and reduced administrative costs.

Don't be silly. If you knew what you were talking about you would know that some unions do provide healthcare for their members. You would also know that as many as 50 different unions have been granted one year waivers so their members would not be subjected to the new law. Apparently Allnurses will no longer allow you to copy and past. The UFT of New York got a waiver so its 345,000 member would not have to be subjected to the new law. Look it up.

My knowledge of Def. Dept spending comes from my experience in the military. I know from personal experience how much extra military personel are paid for being in a combat zone. Google it.

In Canada, and other countries with Nationalized helath care they have a smaller percentage of their population that are on welfare from cradle to grave. I remember one time in this country it was a source of shame not to work and take care of your kids. Now it is not shameful at all for someone to sit on the steps of their section 8 housing, at the first of the month waiting for the mailman to bring them their check. They feel as entitled to that check as I do my paycheck.

[AprettynewRN]

I do take care of my patients thank you. Even when I know what stupid thing some of them did to become a patient in my unit. Just because someone is injured does not mean I suddenly feel the need to adopt them and provide for their every need.

My God. Sometimes words truly fail.

[AprettynewRN]

RE>

Your wish was my command!

The source of the stuff you're spewing is from CPS Crossroads, a flaming far right Republican PAC , the garbage which was echoed by the usal right-leaning media outlets such as Murdoch's papers, AM radio, and radical rightwing websites where they have twisted a waiver application available to everyone and exclusively for the part of the act that prevents employers from adding medical care dollars for a disease once an employee acquires it into some blanket union exemption. In actuality many private companies have applied for this waiver, not surprisingly fast food chains and small franchise businesses top the list...

How do I know? Instead of believing the top 10 radical rightwing websites that came up with Google's index, I went to credible internet story debunking websites. They're great. PolitiFact put a lot of time into this one. Their conclusion was that there's nothing in the bills that exempts unions and that there's no evidence at all t suggest they've gotten any special treatment on waiver. Anyone who wants to check for themselves, politifact.com and search "Unions don't have to comply with Obamacare"

I'll leave it to the individual readers to decide whether they should believe your opinions supported by polemic websites or a Pulitzer prize winning, non-partisan organization dedicated to researching the truth (or fiction) behind political candidates or their subsidiaries.

PS - By the way you don't have to "copy and paste" your source. A link or citation with a paraphase will do.

Kinda helps you think about what you're saying a little more too and gives you some credibility.

.

[AprettynewRN]

My knowledge of Def. Dept spending comes from my experience in the military. I know from personal experience how much extra military personel are paid for being in a combat zone. Google it.

Clearly were way way up there in rank too..considering that the 150 flight crew pay you're citing is only for the bottom pay grades.

The TRUTH is it changes with pay grade, a person can qualify for more than one hazard duty incentive concurrently, and there are a number of addtional benefits such as no state taxes for the duration, free medical, etc.

Plus while it is a side issue, in fact it was the Bush Administration who slashed harzard pay and overhauled it. Once again you paid for the Rockefellers tax cuts.

By the way the DoD military civil servants you have such disdain for actually all served at least a rotation of active duty. Many of them have served much more and be called back to service.

Editorializing now, I think it's really interesting you feel additional hazard pay is insufficient given the lectures you rant on about everyone elses supposed sense of entitlement.

When you sign up for the military it's obvious you are being paid for the risk you are taking and there is potential for a good dose of risk in the form of accident and combat. Those risks are very well compenstated for already in the form of free lifelong healthcare through the VA (a goldmine in itself), a bevy of special services and freebies for veterans such as retirement savings and being placed at the top of the job applicant list - not to mention the intangible status of tons of charities for vets, the current First Lady dedicating herself to the cause, and public appreciation.

Why on earth would you feel entitled to even more and be looking for yet more hand-outs from the taxpayers hard-earned dollars when you've already been extremely well compensated for a risk you voluntarily signed up for.

PS - my source on the grades and hazard pay was military.com