Is Health Care a Right? - page 16
Just want to see your opinion (friendly discussion, no flaming, please). Is health care a right that should be enjoyed equally here in the U.S.? If so, how would this be financed without breaking... Read More
Jan 25, '03Mommy...remember also that there are just as many insured Americans who are trashing their health and this causes premiums to skyrocket as well. It's one of the reasons why health care is not affordable to the average hardworking Joe. I do get mad also when I see people who have never worked, have no intention to work and have a sense of entitlement when it comes to EVERYTHING, but they do not lift a finger to help themselves. And they pass this work ethic onto their children which merely perpetuates a viscious cycle. That's when our neighbors children become OUR responsibility. If they aren't going to parent their kids and teach them good values, someone has to. Otherwise they will be just like their parents. I'm not saying it is right, but that's the way it is.
Jan 25, '03Suffice it so say I would like to see more help in all forms (not just healthcare) available for those who are TRYING and less caretaking for those who don't want to work or be responsible in life.
We enable irresponsible lifestyles by supporting it through liberal government programs. JMHO.Last edit by mattsmom81 on Jan 25, '03
Jan 25, '03It is ultimately the middle class who wind up suffering. They don't make enough to buy their own coverage if it is not offered by their job and they make too much for medicaid. I agree with that. When it comes to higher education and healthcare, sometimes it is better to be poor.
Jan 25, '03It seems to me that there are two separate conversations going on here. One is whether or not health care is a right. I think waaayyy back a couple pages ago, Dr. Kate mentioned our increasing technology in healthcare and thought the question was more appropriately phrased: if the technology is available, does that automatically make it a human right? I don't think it does.
I think we all agree that access to health care is a right (and it's a law). Every American in our society is given care for injury/illness with no questions asked. ER and urgent care clinics do it every day. It's our right as a person to be able to walk into a hospital/clinic and recieve care. But I don't think it should be free for some and not for others. To me, that is prejudice in health care, and not simply not correct. Not at all.
My FIL needed a stem cell transplant to give him a 30% chance to survive. Is it a basic human right that he recieve this, free of charge? Or is it his right to be able to have access to it and have it as a treatment option? It's not appropriate for his doc to say "nah, I'm not gonna do your transplant cuz I don't wanna," and NO healthcare provider ever says this. My FIL had access to technology just as much as the next guy. But that doesn't mean it should be free for him. It can't be free. The reason we have the technology is because people worked to make it so, using their minds, expensive equipment and space. I work in a multi-million dollar research laboratory and I work right next door to the second largest cancer research lab in our state. Are you telling me I shouldn't be paid? Are you saying that the hospital bill should be free? No of course not. You're saying that I need to pay for it, simply by virtue of my circumstance.
I'm a nurse and I get paid to provide my services to people. I'm a nurse and I also volunteer my time for preventative care to the uninsured and homeless. I donate my clothing and furniture to shelters. I donate cash to charities of my choosing. Yet, despite this, you're telling me it just aint enough. Nope. Not nearly enough, Susy. You still got some money left over dontcha? What, you think you were gonna save that for your kid's education? You think you were gonna invest that for your own pathetic retirement? You think you were gonna use that to continue to provide financial support to your family members who need you? You think you were gonna *gasp* buy a piano or take a vacation? Why, you greedy little DINK. Don't you know, we're all in this together and we're all here to help each other, so you have to turn that extra money that we think you don't need to your neighbor. But that help doesn't extend to you, Susy. I know you'd like financial help to continue your education and pay for your undergrad education; afterall, because of that education you are able to provide these services to your neighbor and help them with their illnesses. But, you don't get any. You're just not poor enough. And we make this judgement about your financial status simply by looking at your house and looking at your numbers on paper. WE feel you have enough, therefore, you do.
So, I succumb to my money being taken away, but still want to invest in my retirement, save for my kids college, help my family and buy that piano. So I get a promotion. Get a new job. Get a pay raise, so I can support my neighbor and do the things I need/want to do. Nope. Not a chance, Susy. Because see, it's not about giving or helping, it's about making sure you don't have X amount of money left over in the bank after you pay your bills. It's about equalizing us all out. And THAT is what I have a problem with. I was not put on this earth to constantly support my father, so I sure as hell wasn't put on this earth to support my neighbor.Last edit by Susy K on Jan 25, '03
Jan 25, '03You sound angry, Suzy. If I weren't a struggling college student, I would buy you a piano:kiss
Jan 25, '03There is no way to even hope that children of irresponsible parents will break the cycle of poverty if their basic needs are not covered.
How can a kid do well in school if he can't see the blackboard? How can a child pay attention if her teeth are hurting from multiple cavities? Hard to think about homework when you are hungry.
In a perfect world, the parents, yes, parents would take care of these needs. But this is far from a perfect world, and there are people who just don't think further than the next moment. I don't think that the children of these people should suffer.
I would much rather see my tax dollars spent on healthcare than another smarter bomb, or a stupid pointless war...but that's another fight!Last edit by fab4fan on Jan 25, '03
Jan 25, '03Something needs to be done about insurance in this country. I am NOT sure what though. My husband has always carried the insurance for our family. He works in retail and has ALWAYS had cheaper, and BETTER insurance than I did in ANY nursing job I have had. He pays 85 dollars a paycheck (q2wks) for life on him, and health,dental and vision on him, me and the kids (down to 1 kid at this point). My job wanted me to pay nearly 800 bucks a month for health and dental, no life, no vision for the 3 of us. Who could afford that???????????????????????????
And WHY does the health industry seem to ALWAYS have the highest, crappiest insurance for its workers???? Another reason I need to find a union job!
Jan 25, '03Originally posted by Flo1216
You sound angry, Suzy. If I weren't a struggling college student, I would buy you a piano:kiss
Jan 25, '03I cam home last night and there was a segment on CNN about how the system is stressed because EDs are losing millions because of the uninsured. They have to be treated and it ain't free. The way it's done now needs reform.
Americans responsible for their own health and welfare? Isn't that a concept... I can't drink a cup of coffee without reading warnings about how hot it is or dry my hair without reading a warning about not using the hair dryer in the bathtub.
Jan 25, '03SuzyK, I can confidently tell you that there's not even one person here who thinks that you shouldn't get paid for the work that you do OR that a hospital shouldn't be reimbursed for the cost of the services that it provides (but I personally don't think a hospital or healthcare company should turn millions in profits)! Nobody thinks you don't need your money or don't deserve a vacation, a retirement, a college education for your (future) kids, or a piano. I strive for these types of things as well. I think you miss the point completely. The way it works now is EXACTLY what you sound pissed off about because it's exactly what's causing your woes. You are certainly not alone in your thinking and I don't understand why millions of people are more offended about the misfortunes of others instead of being angry about the way those misfortunes are handled in our country. There will always be people who need help...always. Someone in this thread said it before...WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE WILL COST INDIVIDUALS MORE, more than you're already paying anyway? Or even if universal healthcare's not the answer, why are you so resistant to a way to cover everyone regardless of thier perceived status in this country and change the problems that cause a dip deep into your pocket? I wonder what your thoughts are on the "charity" that your tax dollars go to in order feed and care for the indigent in countries other than our own? But forget about that, let's bring it back home...in my view, you're "flaming" and blaming the impoverished for this part of our democracy that's not working but should be working for the benefit of all including you, me, your father-in-law, and the neighbor's kids.Last edit by Sally_ICURN on Jan 25, '03
Jan 25, '03Thanks Sally, that was me. The plain fact is AMERICANS SPEND MORE MONEY ON HEALTH CARE THAN OTHER COUNTRIES WITH UNIVERSAL CARE. No one wants to adress the issue of how that money is spent, people just keep ranting on that they don't want to pay more taxes for the irresponsible welfare bums, when that is exactly what they are doing right now anyways.....
Jan 25, '03Tracy,
Do you think America's more advanced healthcare technology accounts for our increased spending? Let's not forget, Canadians cross the border to utilize our state-of-the-art care.
And Sally, I was responding to the ideas a few posts back that the more left over money that Taxpayer B has, the more unfair it is to everyone else:
The logic behind progresssive taxation Post #151
Ordinary working people depend on their earnings to pay the rent and put bread on the table. Wealthier people have discretionary income left over after they pay for life's necessities.Last edit by Susy K on Jan 25, '03