Healthcare is NOT a basic human right. - page 42

If one were to read the Constitution one would realize that the Constitution does not grant anyone freedoms, liberties, or rights. The Constitution only protects freedoms, liberties, and rights from... Read More

  1. Visit  VanLpn profile page
    2
    Quote from toekneejo
    I will agree to disagree. I believe "when a man is hungry it is by better to teach him to fish than to give him a fish"
    Fair enough. I don't necessarily disagree with that per se. In Canada, however, we all pay for the health care. No one is really getting a "free ride". The only people that don't pay or those who make precious little or are on disability or social assistance. I assume those groups don't pay down south either, so really we're just talking about middle income and working class people having equal access.
    Fiona59 and JMBnurse like this.
  2. Visit  realmaninuniform profile page
    3
    "Me too. It baffles me that people wouldn't want a universal healthcare system. This discussion has also highlighted to me how individualistic the U.S as a whole is with an "every man for himself" kind of philosophy. I am very grateful that Canadians want everyone to have equal access to health care and for no one to go bankrupt over an illness. It's not a perfect system to be sure but I'm glad to have it."

    As I've said before time and time again, access is not the issue. In the US, the "poor", which i've also proven aren't truly poor, have arguably better "access" than "everyone". There are alot of myths being permeated these days, one of the biggest is that poor people cannot get care in the US, which couldn't be further from the truth.

    The other is that socialized medicine is great, and that is the answer. John Stossel did a fantastic expose on health care in Cuba. He shows that even through a universal, single payer system, the quality of care is based upon the class system... He also shows how they skew the statistics to make it appear as though socialized medicine is superior, when in fact it is not. I think if more people, on both the left and the right actually did their homework and researched the issue they would be quite surprised, as opposed to putting so much blind faith in their god kings-Obama and Romney.
    msn10, CountyRat, and Szasz_is_Right like this.
  3. Visit  VanLpn profile page
    4
    Quote from realmaninuniform
    "Me too. It baffles me that people wouldn't want a universal healthcare system. This discussion has also highlighted to me how individualistic the U.S as a whole is with an "every man for himself" kind of philosophy. I am very grateful that Canadians want everyone to have equal access to health care and for no one to go bankrupt over an illness. It's not a perfect system to be sure but I'm glad to have it."

    As I've said before time and time again, access is not the issue. In the US, the "poor", which i've also proven aren't truly poor, have arguably better "access" than "everyone". There are alot of myths being permeated these days, one of the biggest is that poor people cannot get care in the US, which couldn't be further from the truth.

    The other is that socialized medicine is great, and that is the answer. John Stossel did a fantastic expose on health care in Cuba. He shows that even through a universal, single payer system, the quality of care is based upon the class system... He also shows how they skew the statistics to make it appear as though socialized medicine is superior, when in fact it is not. I think if more people, on both the left and the right actually did their homework and researched the issue they would be quite surprised, as opposed to putting so much blind faith in their god kings-Obama and Romney.

    John Stossel is an outspoken libertarian. Hardly the picture of someone impartially evaluating another country’s healthcare system. Why did he pick Cuba a poor country with very little in common with the U.S? Why not choose from one of the western Countries with some form of universal coverage…any western country..we all have it in some form. France, England, Canada, Australia…etc…yet he chose Cuba…interesting.
    laborer, Fiona59, morte, and 1 other like this.
  4. Visit  cdsga profile page
    0
    It's not that I don't want insurance for everyone-it's that the US plan has not been fully constructed, there is too much that is unknown, and the way it was passed was careless. It's a law now, and we have to work with it, but it certainly was passed without a lot of thought about the consequences. We may certainly be a casualty of it, due to hospital closings, salary issues, due to decreased income for our employers, increased regulation, and a number of patients who we really don't know how we are going to process.
    There is a problem for the increasing issue of contributors and noncontributors, and the fact that this is the largest govt grab in our history.
  5. Visit  JMBnurse profile page
    1
    Thank you to our Canadian friends for coming here and offering your opinions on healthcare and assisting in our debate, even though as they say where I'm from, you don't have a dog in that hunt. Please know that not all Americans feel the same. About half agree with you and have fought hard for this for a long time.

    Those who oppose Universal Healthcare would like to inflate their numbers and use statements like, "most Americans", but like most every political issue, this country is divided right down the middle. If you add to the supporters' column those that may not like the ACA, but know that we must have reform, it becomes less than half for those who oppose reform of any type. We struggle to get so many problems solved in this country because of the sharp division.

    I find it very interesting the number of people here and politicians who say that healthcare should be left up to the individual states. I find that interesting because I live in one of the few states that has tried this. The conservatives here in my state and others across the country have whined and complained that it is a terrible system and does not work. Many, in fact, hold up my state's healthcare system as an example of how terrible Obamacare will be. That's kind of funny in a sad ridiculous sort of way. Once again, is it because those who say this live in wealthier states? Should Mississippi be left on it's own to provide healthcare for those who live there? Hmmmm....Have you even been to Mississippi? I lived there for 8 years. I think not.
    VanLpn likes this.
  6. Visit  Asystole RN profile page
    1
    Quote from JMBnurse
    Thank you to our Canadian friends for coming here and offering your opinions on healthcare and assisting in our debate, even though as they say where I'm from, you don't have a dog in that hunt. Please know that not all Americans feel the same. About half agree with you and have fought hard for this for a long time.

    Those who oppose Universal Healthcare would like to inflate their numbers and use statements like, "most Americans", but like most every political issue, this country is divided right down the middle. If you add to the supporters' column those that may not like the ACA, but know that we must have reform, it becomes less than half for those who oppose reform of any type. We struggle to get so many problems solved in this country because of the sharp division.

    I find it very interesting the number of people here and politicians who say that healthcare should be left up to the individual states. I find that interesting because I live in one of the few states that has tried this. The conservatives here in my state and others across the country have whined and complained that it is a terrible system and does not work. Many, in fact, hold up my state's healthcare system as an example of how terrible Obamacare will be. That's kind of funny in a sad ridiculous sort of way. Once again, is it because those who say this live in wealthier states? Should Mississippi be left on it's own to provide healthcare for those who live there? Hmmmm....Have you even been to Mississippi? I lived there for 8 years. I think not.


    Because the economic problems of Mississippi has nothing to do with the decisions of those who live in Mississippi. Its not like they do not have ample natural resources, access to one of the most important waterways in the United States, oil and natural gas, and access to the ocean.

    I sure do wish Arizona had half the resources that Mississippi has. But alas, the problems of Mississippi are due to everything and everyone besides Mississippians.

    I am happy the citizens of your state have the right and privilege to decide the healthcare system that works best your state, for your population, and for your beliefs.
    toekneejo likes this.
  7. Visit  JMBnurse profile page
    0
    Quote from Asystole RN
    But alas, the problems of Mississippi are due to everything and everyone besides Mississippians.
    I am not sure what you mean as my point was that Mississippi is the poorest state in the Union. I read something recently that said obesity has had a huge impact on their economy. They are 3rd in the nation. However, I'm sure it is comforting to Mississippians to know that this is not their fault and they are wasting their infinite resources.
    Economy of Mississippi statistics - StateMaster.com

    Quote from Asystole RN
    I am happy the citizens of your state have the right and privilege to decide the healthcare system that works best your state, for your population, and for your beliefs.
    Thank you so much. It is my hope that soon this will be shared by all Americans.
  8. Visit  Asystole RN profile page
    3
    Quote from JMBnurse
    I am not sure what you mean as my point was that Mississippi is the poorest state in the Union. I read something recently that said obesity has had a huge impact on their economy. They are 3rd in the nation. However, I'm sure it is comforting to Mississippians to know that this is not their fault and they are wasting their infinite resources.
    Economy of Mississippi statistics - StateMaster.com



    Thank you so much. It is my hope that soon this will be shared by all Americans.

    It is hard for me to feel sorry for the poor man who sits on his mountain of gold.

    If we have universal healthcare then the citizens of your, mine, and every other state will not have the right nor privilege to decide the healthcare that suits each of our needs the best. Thats the thing, the healthcare needs of Mississippi are vastly different from the healthcare needs of Arizona, as they are different from California.

    Why can we not allow the citizens of those states to decide what it most appropriate for them?
    msn10, lindarn, and toekneejo like this.
  9. Visit  cdsga profile page
    0
    Medical bills. "People often don't realize medical bills tend to be eminently negotiable," Andrew Cohen, a medical debt resolution program manager at The Access Project, told CBS News. The key is to find out the fair price of procedures and medications (Healthcare Blue Book is a good resource) and then meet with your doctor's or hospital's billing department before you have the procedure. Ask about financial assistance programs, offer to pay in cash, and if you don't have health insurance, don't be afraid to ask the hospital to lower its prices. (Cohen suggests starting with "If I pay you 30 percent of this bill right now, will you write off the rest?") If you've already been treated and have received a huge bill, there's still a chance you can negotiate. "Errors are commonplace in hospital bills," writes Jane E. Brody at The New York Times. "A doctor may request a procedure or medication that is subsequently canceled or that the patient refuses, but it still goes on the bill. An entry error may result in a misplaced decimal point or an extra zero or two in the number of treatments, multiplying the cost 10 or 100 times." Take a close look at your bill. Were you over-charged or double-billed an item or procedure? Did your insurance company deny something that they were supposed to cover? Did they charge you for a test or medication that wasn't administered? Just don't bother trying to negotiate your co-payment--you knew about that before you sought medical treatment.
  10. Visit  CountyRat profile page
    4
    VanLpn wrote, "Me too. It baffles me that people wouldn't want a universal healthcare system. This discussion has also highlighted to me how individualistic the U.S as a whole is with an "every man for himself" kind of philosophy. I am very grateful that Canadians want everyone to have equal access to health care and for no one to go bankrupt over an illness. It's not a perfect system to be sure but I'm glad to have it."

    Van, some of us down south do not want universal healthcare because we think that there is a better way to provide care. We do provide healthcare for our poor and unimployed, but we do not do it very well, which is why we are so concerned about our system. You mention that your country's healthcare system is not perfect. Well, neither is ours, which is why so many of us are following this thread. We want the best healthcare system possible, but it is hard to know what that will look like, and, while we agree about wanting everyone cared for, we disagree on how best to do this because we see the problem from different points of view.

    As for being individualistic, you are right, individual liberty, responsibility, and effort are traditional U.S. values; which makes us different from other countries. However, I have to comment on your interpretation of individualism as meaning, "every man for himself." Not true. We do tend to be more independant than people in some other places, and we are proud of that, but we also feel strong bonds to our neighbors, communitties, and country. Our sence of communitty includes the duty to help others within those communities, which we do, as I am sure Canadians also do.

    I am glad that you are proud of your wonderful country. You have good reason to be proud that you are a Canadian. Our two countries are different. We see many things differently, but people who see things differently can still respect each other, and even be friends. I certainly feel nothing but friendship and respect for our Canadian neighbors. I hope that you do too, but in any case, we send our best wishes to you and your countrymen.
    Last edit by CountyRat on Oct 19, '12
    msn10, loriangel14, toekneejo, and 1 other like this.
  11. Visit  forrester profile page
    0
    We are not a nation of one document. We also have The Federalist Papers, for instance, and the Declaration of Independence. I could swear I remember something about being endowed by our "creator" with certain inalienable rights, including life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
  12. Visit  forrester profile page
    4
    At least the Canadians HAVE a system, instead of a hodgepodge network of for profit unaccountable and faceless providers.
    Our "system" stinks when it comes to chronic care, and the simple fact is that that is our most pressing concern right now.
    The Affordable Care Act is a small step, but at least it's a step, towards addressing this great national disgrace.
    joanna73, Sisyphus, Fiona59, and 1 other like this.
  13. Visit  Songbird,RN profile page
    1
    Realmaninuniform, I SHOUT ditto, ditto, and Amen to ALL you have said sooooooo well!
    msn10 likes this.

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