Healthcare is NOT a basic human right.

[Asystole RN]

If one were to read the Constitution one would realize that the Constitution does not grant anyone freedoms, liberties, or rights. The Constitution only protects freedoms, liberties, and rights from transgressions on part of the government. A right is something that is inherent to the individual, comes from that individual, and is maintained by the individual. You are born with such rights like the right to speak freely, the only thing that can be done to that right is to have it infringed. No one can grant a right to another, only limit or impede the exercise of that right.

Healthcare is a human invention that does not exist in the natural environment. Only through the work of others and through the taking of resources from one party and giving to another does healthcare exist. You cannot force someone to give effort and resources to another and call that a right. In the absence of human intervention the individual would live their lives and succumb to the natural forces which would act upon their bodies.

Do I think we should provide preventative care and basic primary care? Sure. Do I think that we can? Maybe. Do I think that healthcare is a basic human right? Absolutely not.

[Asystole RN]

How can something be a basic human right when the exercise of that right requires the removal (even forceably) of resources from one group to another?

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

The idea behind universal health care is this: you're sharing resources, so that everyone has some. You're not taking away or removing anything. It does work, although certainly, every system has flaws. As a Canadian, I've only known universal health care, and I couldn't imagine the alternative. The same is true for many Americans wondering how universal health care can work. You know what you live and what you're familiar with.

[Asystole RN]

The idea behind universal health care is this: you're sharing resources, so that eisyone has some. You're not taking away or removing anything. It does work, although certainly, every system has flaws. As a Canadian, I've only known universal health care, and I couldn't imagine the alternative. The same is true for many Americans wondering how universal health care can work. You know what you live and what you're familiar with.

I think we should provide universal healthcare. I think it might even be possible. I just do not think it is a basic human right.

[zoidberg, BSN, RN]

That was the point I was implying: It is NOT a right. One could argue that there is no such thing as a right. What we are doing is deciding as a society that we want to reallocate the resources from the public to all people in the nation, through tax dollars, in the form of health care. It is the same discussion as public education. Do we want to use public money for the good of everyone? Putting it in the form of a question of what is a human right makes it a more controversial and polarizing issue; such is the fad these days.

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

I guess that's where we differ. I do think that health care is a basic human right, simply because if you are unhealthy, you can't really advance at all in life. Work even the most basic job, raise a family, etc. Part of this difference arises from a difference in values, which is the essence of this debate. Canadians value health for all...this is the core of our health mandate. Americans, on the other hand value capitalism, and have the "every man for himself" mentality.

[zoidberg, BSN, RN]

maybe its just how my brain works, i tend to think about the world from a big (huge) picture point of view. like dawn of time big. I think access to healthcare is important, and should be available to everyone. I just cannot help but think about how humans sometimes over think how important we are. "human rights" are something our minds conceived. I think the term is important, but we need to realize that is us, as people, who make and decide what human rights are. We are not deciding what the rights are, but rather deciding what they should be. So I suppose I somehow do think healthcare is a right, but it also is not, if we decide it should not be. ("we" being general)

[Asystole RN]

I guess that's where we differ. I do think that health care is a basic human right, simply because if you are unhealthy, you can't really advance at all in life. Work even the most basic job, raise a family, etc. Part of this difference arises from a difference in values, which is the essence of this debate. Canadians value health for all...this is the core of our health mandate. Americans, on the other hand value capitalism, and have the "every man for himself" mentality.

I think the "every man for himself" statement is a little pejorative. I believe a more accurate statement would be that regardless of your socioeconomic status at birth, hard work and intelligent decisions will allow you to better your station in life. If I remember right, I believe this idea is influenced by Puritan/Protestant ideals, fruits of your labor and all.

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

As far as humans deciding what rights should or should not be....well, this is true. We do decide, and that is why various economic systems exist world wide. Each nation places value on what they feel is important.

[Chisca, RN]

For instance, to those who think our healthcare system is the best that there is, regardless of what the numbers say, how common is this type of scenario, recently posted by a member of this forum?

Probably more often than it should but how does universal healthcare prevent this? Staffing by acuity would prevent this and some states have mandatory staffing laws, most do not. I have educated many a nurse on how to measure acuity and then argue numbers with management rather than engage in a emotional shouting match. Even a casual visitor to a nursing unit can tell if the staff is harried. Does Obamacare mandate minimum staffing ratios? Who knows because the speaker of the house said we had to pass it before we could read it. Would anyone enter into any contract without first reading it? If this is such an important issue why all the parliamentary skullduggery like the cornhusker kickback, originating the bill in the senate, and passing it in the dead of night when most members had gone home for recess?

Rather than attacking me and calling names why not stick to the topic?

Amen, brother. Buy a round of beers and carry on.

[Asystole RN]

maybe its just how my brain works, i tend to think about the world from a big (huge) picture point of view. like dawn of time big. I think access to healthcare is important, and should be available to everyone. I just cannot help but think about how humans sometimes over think how important we are. "human rights" are something our minds conceived. I think the term is important, but we need to realize that is us, as people, who make and decide what human rights are. We are not deciding what the rights are, but rather deciding what they should be. So I suppose I somehow do think healthcare is a right, but it also is not, if we decide it should not be. ("we" being general)

Granted, humans decide what basic human rights are, but a basic human right cannot be something given. Basic human rights are things that we are born with, things that are inherent in the human condition. Basic human rights cannot be granted by a government or other social invention.

If healthcare is a basic human right and someone is stranded alone on an island, the right to healthcare would be invalid. Doesn't make sense. He does however retain the right to say whatever he pleases, think whatever he pleases, and pursue happiness.

[malamud69, BSN, RN]

"If healthcare is a basic human right and someone is stranded alone on an island, the right to healthcare would be invalid. Doesn't make sense. He does however retain the right to say whatever he pleases, think whatever he pleases, and pursue happiness."

Does "he" not also have the "right" to care for himself??? Why is that left out of your argument? Is good health not a major part of "pursuing happiness" when viewed in the light of a "holistic" approach to health care that is so prominent in most teaching these days starting at the CNA level??? Especially as it applies to nursing paradigms...

[Asystole RN]

"If healthcare is a basic human right and someone is stranded alone on an island, the right to healthcare would be invalid. Doesn't make sense. He does however retain the right to say whatever he pleases, think whatever he pleases, and pursue happiness."

Does "he" not also have the "right" to care for himself??? Why is that left out of your argument? Is good health not a major part of "pursuing happiness" when viewed in the light of a "holistic" approach to health care that is so prominent in most teaching these days starting at the CNA level??? Especially as it applies to nursing paradigms...

Excellent point!

I believe that things that originate from the individual can be considered a basic human right but not when it takes the external intervention and allocation of resources.

You have the right to pursue health, you do not have the right to take it at the expense of others.