Controversial Michael Moore Flick 'Sicko' Will Compare U.S. Health Care with Cuba's - page 6

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  1. by   Atl_John
    You know I have been on both sides of the fence. Having lived in Germany was actually born there, I don't like the medical care over there. You think we get paid low here as RN's, try their version of minimum wage cause thats what a nurse makes. This didn't come from me, this came from a nurse this past summer who is a nurse and works in germany. She could not believe at how much we made here. Not to mention how small the waits were for major surgeries, etc.

    As for a single payer system, heck no, I do not want the government telling me what is covered, how many of you have had problems jsut getting a wheel chair or a cane for your grandparent? I know I have, its a real pain, can't stand medicare.

    As a poor student and by poor I mean DIRT poor even I have my own insurance, BCBS PPO. I know that being a poor student its very important to have health insurance, you get sick, you get in an accident, crap happens. It is the responsibility of each of us to get health insurance if we can. As someone who literally has no income except for student loans if I can get insurance they surely can.

    MM......hes a wacko, about as impartial as Hitler. Do I think we have a problem here yes I do. I've worked for companys that didn't offer ANY health benefits and this was while working for a company INSIDE of a hospital. I think the problem is multi multi multi faceted. To have a single payer system will only see your taxes go sky high, your wages fall, and the shortage to get even worse. I bet you there are a lot more nurses wanting to come here to work than there are wanting to go to France, UK, Germany, Cuba, Canada to work.

    Our system- we have problems with frivolous lawsuits, outrageous premiums, outrageous mal practice premiums, crazy high doctor salaries (last time I checked they were hardly ever around, the nurses made a lot of the decisions for the pt). Expensive drugs (come on now 2 + dollars per pill for a Zyrtec you've gotta be kidding me) Hospitals wanting to get in on the game of making a profit. Don't get me wrong I'm all for making a profit, I like money in my pocket just like the next man and believe I deserve a good paycheck for what I do. But if you take all those items you could draw a little flow diagram and see how they are all interconnected to one another. Get rid of those and you start to get lower healthcare costs. Personally I wish they required all employers to offer healtcare with a specific level that they pay at, and for small businesses give them a tax break so they can pay the bills to help get their employees insurance.
  2. by   ZASHAGALKA
    I just don't get how MM actually expects his claims that Cuba has better health care can actually pass the smell test. Yep and that's why the nation depends on relatives from the States sending back money and meds.

    Look, I understand how the MM's of the world are enamored with Cuba: it is everything they want in the way of a socialist, progressive world.

    Convincing MOST Americans that they would want to live like most Cubans? Shoot, give it your best shot.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  3. by   pickledpepperRN
    Not me, I want the explicit right to speak my opinion.

    But I do think we need to improve our healthcare.
    Perhaps teach personal responsibility.
    I did some nutrition teaching in public schoold in 1999. Nurses and dieticians taught high school volunteers to teach 2nd, 4th, and 6th graders healthy eating.
    It was a team of two high schoolers and one health professional.

    I think the nurse in the neighborhood is a good idea. We need more PHN's but that will require people seeing the advantage in healthy living and modeling personal responsibility. There is not much profit in keeping people healthy. Especially teaching children good health habits that they can teach their children.
  4. by   Myxel67
    Quote from DarrenWright
    Such a "speech" or "paper" doesn't have to cover everything, but it cannot be intellectually dishonest or misleading in it's attempts to persuade, such as Moore's films are.

    The review was written subjectively by a woman with a specific political agenda. Her position is clear, and she probably wouldn't even deny that her review is biased. What I find disingenius is that she cited an example of an experimental treatment that was not covered by a private insurer, and then championed socialized models, which pay FAR less frequently for experimental treatments.
    Bone Marrow transplant has been accepted treatment for some time. This is not an experimental treatment just because an insurance company says it is. They need to update their information.
  5. by   DarrenWright
    Quote from Myxel67
    Bone Marrow transplant has been accepted treatment for some time. This is not an experimental treatment just because an insurance company says it is. They need to update their information.
    There are still bone marrow transplant procedures that are considered experimental, i.e. non-myeloablative. The insurance companies don't get to decide this; the FDA does.

    Unfortunately, the REGISTERED NURSE who wrote the article only shot a vague accusation across the bow; she failed to reference or adequately explain that particular incident.
  6. by   Jennyw45013
    has anyone on here even seen the movie?


    It doesn't matter what is thought of MM. My thought is, whatever puts the topic out there and starts dialouge. We are nurses and we deal with the healthcare/insurance issues ALL the time. There are many people who are completely oblivious to it. I do think that there is individual responsibility, but i have been poor. like eating ramen noodles dirt poor. i have had to house homeless friends and there kids. i know what it is like to choose food vs. insurance. there has to be a solution and if this movie makes people think or talk about it then that is helpful in itself.
  7. by   DarrenWright
    If you have to misrepresent a position to spur discussion, then you need to leave the issue to more honest and qualified people. Especially if all you can do to justify the millions you will make is claim morality on the basis of 'spurring discussion.'

    That's MM's strategy; he criticizes the system from a pulpit of activism, and then when MM or his crowd are called out for their disinenuity, they attempt to claim the cover of "satire."

    It's blatantly unethical. If we practiced medicine with the same set of morals that MM applies, we'd be able to justify anything we did based on outcome alone, without worrying much about the equally important process. i.e. who cares if that nurse stole the leftover morphine instead of wasting it? The patient got theirs, and the nurse didn't hurt anyone.
  8. by   HM2VikingRN
    Its very easy to exhaust the medical coverage for auto insurance. 100,000 for a major medical case is nothing. After the auto insurance medical is exhausted who will pay for care? By then many patients will have lost their jobs and their health coverage. At that time cost of care defaults to a combination of medicaid, and cost shifting to the insured by raising fees for other patients. Short answer is that we end up paying more for less under our current system.
  9. by   DarrenWright
    [quote=HM2Viking;2241776]By then many patients will have lost their jobs and their health coverage. quote]

    Any research or reference to support this?
  10. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from DarrenWright
    If you have to misrepresent a position to spur discussion, then you need to leave the issue to more honest and qualified people. Especially if all you can do to justify the millions you will make is claim morality on the basis of 'spurring discussion.'

    That's MM's strategy; he criticizes the system from a pulpit of activism, and then when MM or his crowd are called out for their disinenuity, they attempt to claim the cover of "satire."

    It's blatantly unethical. If we practiced medicine with the same set of morals that MM applies, we'd be able to justify anything we did based on outcome alone, without worrying much about the equally important process. i.e. who cares if that nurse stole the leftover morphine instead of wasting it? The patient got theirs, and the nurse didn't hurt anyone.
    This is exactly the point!

    There is a huge discussion going on in this country about healthcare already. There are many discussions just here on allnurses.

    I don't need MM's twisted viewpoints based on spinning, misrepresenting, and outright lying.

    steph
  11. by   Jennyw45013
    again, has anyone seen the movie??? i will not criticize until i have.....
  12. by   dria
    i have not yet seen the movie, nor do i plan to.
    i am sure it is more far left conspiracy theory ala farenheit 911.
    hm2...i'm sure you will enjoy the movie.

    i do hope that michael moore is bought up on charges for breaking the us travel ban to cuba...but that is another thread entirely.
  13. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from dria
    i do hope that michael moore is bought up on charges for breaking the us travel ban to cuba...but that is another thread entirely.
    journalists are exempt from the travel ban. if he had enough press credentials to get into the 2004 republican national convention (and he did), then he has enough credentials to escape any sort of prosecution for going to cuba.

    besides, if we really wanted to see healthcare dramatically improved, i'm all in favor of lifting the ban on cuba entirely. you'd see a remarkable improvement in healthcare in a short time. in cuba, of course.

    remember, you don't have to be an unbiased journalist to be a journalist.

    as much as i dislike mm, i'm not for violating a free press to get him. let him have his say.

    ~faith,
    timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Jun 9, '07

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