Clinical hours short of NMC suggestion? - page 3
First of all, I really hope Silverdragon reads this and gives me insight. I have sent out my application as well as all of my paperwork to the NMC for my nursing license, except my training... Read More
Jan 26, '11thank you all for your quick replies!! i am definitely going to contact the nmc but i'm sure it's not going to be easy getting a quick answer. i am going to see my fiance in august so maybe i can try to make an appointment with them at the london office if i'm lucky, though i'm usually never lucky . a girl's gotta hope though!
i'm guessing a lot of you are right that i do need that year of experience. i'm really afraid the accelerated bsn is gonna screw me over though getting acceptance. i had no other option here in the u.s. as the here are so expensive cuz all the cheaper ones have years long waitlists. it's really a sad situation.
i wonder if i got the year of nursing of here and then got married if i'd still have these problems but probably if they won't accept my education. i guess i could always do an mba, haha since i have a bachelor's in finance but business just wasn't something i was passionate about like nursing. maybe nursing administration? are there those kinds of positions available in the uk like in the us?
oh one last question for latterlife midwife: you mentioned you were an american rn graduate who then went to the uk for a bsc in midwifery, how did you get nmc registration? did you already have a bsn with the required education elements the nmc wanted and then applied for your registration after your years of experience here in the us? also, how did you get accepted into the program? i've read on so many uk uni's sites that most bsc programs in nursing and midwifery aren't available to international students because they are funded by the nhs and we don't qualify for that until we settle permanently i thought. maybe you could help me understand that better as your situation could possibly be a route i take though midwifery isn't what i would specialize in, i'd like to do adult or geriatric clinical work eventually but right now i'm setting for anything in nursing over there to get to be with my fiance.
thanks again everyone for all your time and help!!! will be emailing the nmc though soon and harassing them with skype phone calls till i get straight answers about my program though, haha.
Jan 26, '11Oh as for the MSc I did find this one program at Liverpool John Moores University that claims it's for International students. It sounds perfect but there is no clinical experience given so does that mean it's basically a teaching degree for those who want to teach nursing? It'd be perfect in location and that it's full time. I've tried emailing the Uni for answers to my questions about how it all would work with the NMC but I've heard nothing in 2 weeks. Might give them another try. What do you UK nurses think about this program? Any thoughts/opinions are greatly appreciated!
Candidates will hold a professional nursing qualification
Candidates should hold a degree from a government approved university.
The International English Language Testing System (IELTS) minimum 6.5 overall band or score equivalent, or evidence of having completed secondary or tertiary education through the medium of English.
Two references, one of which should be an academic reference.
Mode of Study
[FONT=Univers 45 Light,Univers 45 Light][FONT=Univers 45 Light,Univers 45 Light]The mode of study is full-time over a minimum of 1 calendar year and a maximum of 3 years. Taught modules will be completed within one academic year.
This programme will provide registered nurses with enhanced skills in theoretical principles of nursing, research, teaching and leadership. The programme has been developed specifically to meet the needs of international students and students who may be interested in international perspectives in healthcare, taking into account their academic level at the point of entry, and endeavours to meet their educational and professional aspirations.
Aim of the course
[FONT=Univers 45 Light,Univers 45 Light][FONT=Univers 45 Light,Univers 45 Light]The programme aims to provide a theoretical perspective for post-registration nursing education, which meets the requirements for the award of Master of Science from Liverpool John Moores University.
Taken from: http://www.ljmu.ac.uk/MKG_Global_Doc...ernational.pdf
Jan 26, '11It looks like a reasonable nursing masters degree but the NMC would still need you to meet the basic nurse training and experience to register and this masters wouldnt give you that.
Feb 16, '11New to this forum and hope someone will have an insight.
I am an American trained nurse (with the dreaded accelerated second degree BSN) who is residing in the UK with a spousal visa. I started the NMC application process, but called today to question the clinical hours requirement. They told me straight -- that with a 12 month BSN, they will be unable to approve my application. As I'm not running off to the U.S. so quickly and I'd like to work as a nurse in the U.K., they referred me to the UCAS site, specifically the section on APEL credits. The NMC suggested contacting university programs here to see what I could do to amalgamate my US BSN.
1) Has anyone done this? Suggestions?
2) Not to sound too complainy, but I'm unsure of one detail. The dean of my university in the U.S. explained that the clinical and theory hours are exactly the same in the accelerated program as they are in the traditional BSN. So, does that mean that if I had a traditional American BSN, I would still have difficulty joining the UK register?
Any insight would be appreciated. I was working under the assumption when I agreed to move here with my husband that having a BSN would exempt me from this mini-nightmare. I had no idea they differentiated between a traditional BSN and an accelerated BSN.
Feb 16, '11Quote from jls2011new to this forum and hope someone will have an insight.
i am an american trained nurse (with the dreaded accelerated second degree bsn) who is residing in the uk with a spousal visa. i started the nmc application process, but called today to question the clinical hours requirement. they told me straight -- that with a 12 month bsn, they will be unable to approve my application. as i'm not running off to the u.s. so quickly and i'd like to work as a nurse in the u.k., they referred me to the ucas site, specifically the section on apel credits. the nmc suggested contacting university programs here to see what i could do to amalgamate my us bsn.
1) has anyone done this? suggestions?
2) not to sound too complainy, but i'm unsure of one detail. the dean of my university in the u.s. explained that the clinical and theory hours are exactly the same in the accelerated program as they are in the traditional bsn. so, does that mean that if i had a traditional american bsn, i would still have difficulty joining the uk register?
any insight would be appreciated. i was working under the assumption when i agreed to move here with my husband that having a bsn would exempt me from this mini-nightmare. i had no idea they differentiated between a traditional bsn and an accelerated bsn.
the question is do your clinical and theory hours match the uk hours. that is what usually is required although each case is based individually i believe some have gotten though with slightly less hours but uk clinical and theory hours are a lot as the training is full time for 3 years with a lot of clinical emphasis
for all three year nursing courses, at least half (or 2300 hours) must be in clinical or
practical training, and at least one third (or 1533 hours) must be theoretical training.
Feb 16, '11Actually, I'm glad this thread popped up again because I received an e-mail from a UK agency--the lady told me that she has never heard of an American RN with a straight 4-year bachelor's degree be denied. She said that the NMC knows that American nurses don't have nearly the amount of hours that UK nurses have in training. This is also consistent with other extensive research that I have completed through the wonders of google. When I get another chance I'll post a few links for other folks who might be reading this thread wondering if they can register.
The kicker, obviously, is immigration. I feel very fortunate that my husband is a British citizen, otherwise it would be nearly impossible in this economy, I imagine. Although I wanted to go in the first place to be near his parents so they can meet their grandkids.
The accelerated BSN is more sticky, unfortunately for you...I don't have an answer for that one.
Feb 17, '11Thanks for your responses!
To Silverdragon : No, my clinical hours will not total 2300. But neither do traditional American BSNs as BabyRN has correctly pointed out. I know of no American universities where 62 weeks (37.5 hours/week) is dedicated to clinical or "on the job training". When the move to the U.K was a twinkle in my eye, I confirmed with a friend/faculty member that the requirements for the accelerated BSN was identical to the traditional students, simply condensed into a 12 month full time, M-F 8 - 5 p.m schedule. Therefore, if traditional American BSN students are awarded NMC registration "on a case by case" basis, I don't know why accelerated students are discriminated against.
Anyway, I did learn, for what it's worth, that even if I wanted to augment my BSN by parlaying into a British nursing program, I would have to wait for three years to do so, regardless of the fact that I'm on a spousal visa (married to U.K. citizen).
I have a meeting with our local MP on Monday to discuss this issue. I don't have much hope in making a dent into a system that is tremendously biased in favor of the EU, but it will be interesting nonetheless.
Thanks to both for responding, again!
Feb 18, '11While I can't help you out with the accelerated thing, would you mind posting about the " UCAS site" that you mentioned, maybe a link? Could be beneficial for other folks reading this in the same predicament Did a quick google search and wasn't able to find anything...
Feb 18, '11I also am interested in working in the UK. I currently have an ADN and am working on my BSN. Because I have an ADN, the clinical hours were included in the total credit hours in the nursing courses. It does not seem that, even when I complete my BSN, that I will have nearly enough clinical hours to complete what the NMC requires. The only two courses that I have left that require clinical hours will total 80 hours.
If I had to guess at the total clinical hours I currently have while earning my ADN, I would say 450. With the last two clinical courses that require 40 hours each, that brings me to approx. 540.
I am not really understanding why the UK has such excessive requirements? I knew someone who is American, who was living in Scotland at the time that she graduated from nursing school. So, she was trained there, and now is back in the States. The way that she spoke about it was that you could indeed work there with an ADN ??
Do they calculate this with just nursing courses or are pre reqs also calculated (for the theory portion)? I also was working on a med tech degree at one time, I have enough college credits for two bachelor degrees. Doesnt that count for something? This is horribly discouraging... I may give up my dream of ever working over there or even working for one of the travel nurse companies that employ US trained nurses in the UK.
Feb 18, '11The ADN used to be accepted in years past, is what I have been able to find throughout my own research.
Try to read this thread in its entirety and you'll learn that it sounds like you don't need all those hours.
Feb 18, '11BabyRN,
I actually did read all the posts in this thread..thankfully. Im still confused tho lol It is something that I really want, as I see it is with others as well. I don't think that I understand calculating the hours, to be honest. The hours that I posted were actual hours spent int eh clinical setting just added up, but isnt there an actual formula that is used? What about time spent in skills laboratory and clinical preparation? Does that count? I know some schools do not require chart studies the nite before clinical, but mine did. I would often spend two hours going through my patient's record, then coming home after an hour drive and finishing up preparation for the next day, which would often take me up to three hours (I went to a very strict school, and they would send you home if you didnt know the answer to a simple question).
I also came from a school where 75 was a failing grade. I find that is everywhere but there are also more schools that consider a lower grade as passing. It was just an over all tough school and if you made it through then it was quite an accomplishment (as it is anywhere really!). Just nightmare-ish and I often equate it to military boot camp lol! thank you for sharing your insight with me, I truly appreciate it!
Feb 18, '11Generally it is required that your training matches UK training which for most people is just over 3 years full time in university. For several years the UK training has changed and for most it is specialised with options to only do Adult nursing, mental Health nursing or Paeds nursing. Midwifery is totally different and a course on it's own. For the ones doing Adult, mental Health or Paeds the first 18 months is a foundation course and the last 18 months becomes more specialised but even then many students do not gain experience in all areas enabling them to be general trained making it easier to register as a RN in both Canada as well as the US. Presently UK training is either diploma or degree level but from 2013 all nurse training will be at BSN level
Feb 18, '11Silverdragon,
Thank you for explaining that to me! Oh my, I am wracking my brain trying to figure this out... and i honestly did not know this forum existed as I just joined today. I also do not know quite how to use this site either so it will take me som e time to get used to it
Interestingly, 2013 is the year that many changes will take place here in the US as well. I am working toward my BSN, and am very close to finishing (will be finished in 2012). After which I would love to continue on and get my masters and be a nurse practitioner. In 2013, a PhD will be required for NPs. Also, BSN will be required in all states, as of timing I don't know, but ADNs will no longer be eligible to work in the US. Many facilities are requiring BSN now as well. I lived an hour from Boston last year and every hospital I looked at required the BSN no matter how many years of experience you have. While discouraging, it makes sense in that evidence shows better patient outcomes with bachelor prepared nurses. The movement has begun! Im' glad I'm doing it now to be honest