Have any NPs considered med school?

button2cute · Aug 5, 2005

Hi All!
I'm new to this forum, and have found it to be very interesting and informative.
Here is my dilemma: :angryfire
I'm going qrazy trying to decide wether to continue with med school or just go for NP. I'm a guy, in my mid 30- ish, been an RN for almost 15 yrs with lots of clinical and general paper pushing exp. I'm also a licensed acupuncturist, and had been in private practice, before I quit it all, and went down to an off-shore med school. I'm done with 2 semesters, but it's really getting to me. Sure there are some folks even in their 50s, but I'm kind of starting to think that this mid-life thing got to me a bit to early :rotfl:. All I wanted is some independence, and to be able to do primary care. I've got to also say that I've been hung up on M.D status, and not happy being reminded sometimes that I am a male-nurse, more than I'd like to admit. It's just many of my quite happy patients were saying things like "why didn't you go all the way?",or "too bad you're not a doc, I would've chosen you instead of a crip I go to" and so on... I don't want to go into way too many details, but I really wanted to hear from some of you outthere in the know. Basically, are you happy? Do you ever regret not doing a med or D.O school? Please, I really need to hear form you guys, as my adventure is sure getting me into some impressive debt, and I'm stuck abroad without my wife and daughter.It's really taking a tall on me emotionally, and my personal health. I know that nothing good ever came into being without a great deal of sucrifice.But is it really worth it, if the only thing I wanted to do is Family Medicine /Primary Care or a physical medicine and rehab?
Sorry I went on and on for so long, I guess I needed to vent a bit :angryfire
Thank you very much

Hello, Papadoc

I read your post. I would like to know your goals and how you were going to met them. If your goal has change since you were in medical school....than why did it change? DO you want to be a nurse practitioner for a quick fix of not completeing medical school? Or you really want to be a nurse practitioner and to met the goals of caring for people who are injured/ill? You have to search for the answer within yourself of why you went to medical school in the first place and why you want to depart from medical school? Because you have to close one door prior to walking throught another door.

If you are lonely and miss your family than you must see them. Talk to them about missing them and being around them. Then sit down with your wife and explain to her your dilema about medical school, nurse practitioner school and them. What was your goal of going to medical school? of why did you want to attend in the first place?

I cannot direct you to take any directions at all. I can give you suggestions, help you to find solutions to your problems and lastly, what ever decision you choose to do...it is because you really want to do it. Therefore, I can be supportive by listening to you and to have positive feedback to you....I just cannot make decisions for you.

I hope this post helped you.... :)

Buttons

Papadoc · Aug 5, 2005

Hey Buttons!

Thanks for your quick repply. I guess my first and foremost problem in medical school is my personal health. I'm not quite sure that even if I do get through the med school, I'll be able to survive riggorous residency pace. My goal for going to med school was pretty much broadening my horizon,esp as far as scope of practice is concerned. I really do have that gut feeling when I treat my patients both as a nurse,and an acupuncturist. The problem is both of these roles while very important,however, do not provide a certain degree of authority, and weight in delivering the care. No I do not have "G-d" cpmplex. I'm not looking to dictate to my patients what to do. But being a doc can give you that edge, often necessary to get your message across,and to be taken seriously not only by the patients, but also by other practitioners envolved. JMost of my prior exp seems to evidence that. And I personally always have that feeling to be near "it", but not exactly "it." That's why I was thinkig that NP could be that missing link I'm looking for.And no doubt about it...a much quicker, and cheaper fix which coul be attained without giving up a professional income, and being separated from my family,not even knowing that still, in the end, this is what I realy want.So if any of you outthere are practicing primary care, but with an emphasis on holistic health, without being indoctrinated by only convensional, or only the new age approach, this is exactly what I want. I'm all for inteligent medicine.I guess my concern with becoming an NP is not to be reduced to treating runny noses, and to give flu shots. So are you happy with your role?Hve you ever regreted not getting these two letters "MD" after your name?

Thanks all again very much.

Please send a pm if not for public discussion :rotfl:

Hello, Papadoc
I read your post. I would like to know your goals and how you were going to met them. If your goal has change since you were in medical school....than why did it change? DO you want to be a nurse practitioner for a quick fix of not completeing medical school? Or you really want to be a nurse practitioner and to met the goals of caring for people who are injured/ill? You have to search for the answer within yourself of why you went to medical school in the first place and why you want to depart from medical school? Because you have to close one door prior to walking throught another door.
If you are lonely and miss your family than you must see them. Talk to them about missing them and being around them. Then sit down with your wife and explain to her your dilema about medical school, nurse practitioner school and them. What was your goal of going to medical school? of why did you want to attend in the first place?
I cannot direct you to take any directions at all. I can give you suggestions, help you to find solutions to your problems and lastly, what ever decision you choose to do...it is because you really want to do it. Therefore, I can be supportive by listening to you and to have positive feedback to you....I just cannot make decisions for you.
I hope this post helped you.... :)
Buttons

ErinRNBSN · Jul 9, 2006

Recently I heard the AMA is pushing for all APN's to be supervised in practice. I live in Illinois, the headquarters of the AMA, and this is terrifying some NP's. For all the work we had done and try to do to promote our career and the AMA could jeopardize it all it one swift movement.

Due to this news I have been reconsidering Med school. I have about 1.5 years left in ANP program. I discussed these ideas with some NP's and they said it isnt any easier being a female doctor and being looked down upon or inadequate. Why is this sooooo hard!?!?! Didnt we win womens rights decades ago and we are still stuck in a man's world! I was really excited about the N.D. idea, which is where i will have to go if APN's must be supervised.....arent we then just physician assistants anyway??? Any ideas?

caldje · Jul 10, 2006

Recently I heard the AMA is pushing for all APN's to be supervised in practice. I live in Illinois, the headquarters of the AMA, and this is terrifying some NP's. For all the work we had done and try to do to promote our career and the AMA could jeopardize it all it one swift movement.
Due to this news I have been reconsidering Med school. I have about 1.5 years left in ANP program. I discussed these ideas with some NP's and they said it isnt any easier being a female doctor and being looked down upon or inadequate. Why is this sooooo hard!?!?! Didnt we win womens rights decades ago and we are still stuck in a man's world! I was really excited about the N.D. idea, which is where i will have to go if APN's must be supervised.....arent we then just physician assistants anyway??? Any ideas?

erin, physician assistants don't have to be any more supervised than NPs. Look up the laws. I am sad to say it sounds like you are in a situation at your school where you are recieving a lot of poor and inaccurate information. The majority of students in medical school right now are female, your PA remark was off, and there is no chance that the AMA can just go around changing the lefislature in all 50 states to change the verbage from "collaborative" to "supervisory" which meane the SAME thing anyways.

good luck

sgent · Jul 10, 2006

NP/PA supervision is a state by state issue.

At least in my state (MS), NP's & PA's are essentially interchangable from a physician / hospital perspective. They both have a fairly broad practice. I would expect PA's would be similar in most states -- since they generally have the same training as most NP's (Bachelor & Master's degree w/ practicum). There maybe some Bachelor's degree PA programs left, but I imagine there won't be in 10 years. It was only recently (last 10-15yr) that a Masters was required for an NP as well.

As for supervision that's a state by state issue. In my area supervision means that a physician must audit and sign off on 10% of your charts, be on hand 10% of the time, and sign off on your protocols. They also have to be willing to accept referrals. NP's in this area certainly can and do have independent practices, and hire physicians on a contract basis to provide supervision. In some cases in very rural areas NP's are allowed wider latitude than listed above (with Nursing Board and Medical Board approval).

HididiScribbler · Jul 12, 2006

I can't seem to make up my mind between eventually becoming a NP or a MD...not that I really HAVE to, now (although, what I decide will change what classes I need to take during the summers now...). Making it through nursing school first is a good idea .

I guess, one question I have, is, do you NPs feel that your education was adequate? That seems to be the one thing that doctors get all riled up about... when I look at what I want to do, eventually, NP seems to fit in much more with the type of life I want (eventually, I do want a family and I feel that as a NP I'd be able to see my family more...) and I like the nursing model and I wouldn't mind collaborating with physicians, but I worry that not having those four years of med school and residency would make a big difference in what I'd be able to do. That doesn't SEEM to be the case, at all, since NPs do give such good care, though...

I guess what keeps stopping me from being SURE about wanting to be a NP is that I really want the medical EDUCATION (especially all of the science)...but I think I want the outlook, and the job of a NP... aah, it's all so confusing.

NeuroMedic · Jul 12, 2006

I started off as an RN/Paramedic attending MTSU for a Bachelor of Science

in Nursing; Currently I am working on my graduate nursing degree;

During my time as a ugrad, I made sure to take extra math/chemistry/anatomy

courses etc to aid in my plans to pursue an M.D. in the long run.

Once I get my N.P.; I will be switching over to the school of medicine

for an M.D.

---

As far as the whole M.D. practice without residency. I can't think of

any facility in their right mind that would hire on someone without

a proper residency.

Imagines, "No, I'm not a Doc, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night!"

HididiScribbler · Jul 12, 2006

]
During my time as a ugrad, I made sure to take extra math/chemistry/anatomy
courses etc to aid in my plans to pursue an M.D. in the long run.
Once I get my N.P.; I will be switching over to the school of medicine
for an M.D.

Out of curiosity...what made you decide to go for the MD instead of sticking with the NP? Why did you decide to become a NP first, instead of just going from getting your bachelor's, to med school? Sorry for all the questions, just curious!

gauge14iv, MSN, APRN, NP · Jul 12, 2006

I dont know any RN, NP, PA or MD who feels their education was adequate enough. EVERYONE has the commonality of feeling that when they graduated they were not prepared enough to do what it is that they are supposed to be doing.

NeuroMedic · Jul 12, 2006

Out of curiosity...what made you decide to go for the MD instead of sticking with the NP? Why did you decide to become a NP first, instead of just going from getting your bachelor's, to med school? Sorry for all the questions, just curious!

I have wanted to be an M.D. since I was 14 yo; I knew this was my mission

in life. I chose to go Nursing instead of Pre-med for several reasons:

1. Clinical Skillsets, etc

2. Ability to work in a hospital with pt(Premed is math/chem, all the time;

nurse can work in the hospital; I got my Pmed license so I could work

with pt while receiving my RN).

3. Pt contact--A Doc treats and streets; RN gets to know their pt

and develops a special bond with each and every one of them.

4. Experience; I have worked the field under many different titles:

LifeFlight, Pre-Hospital Critical Care, Trauma, I.C.U.

As an M.D.; I will have alot of experience to draw off of.

5. I will never get fclearance for my N-Methyl-D-Aspartate receptor

antagonism study as a nurse.

cgfnp · Jul 12, 2006

There has been talk for years of these type of bridging programs. A few have been proposed.
One example: http://easteadjr.org/guest.html
This type of program may not be too far away with a proposed doctor shortage in non-urban areas.
But I would not bank on them. Opposition from all sides will be FIERCE.
You would be better served pursuing the educational prereq's needed for admission to an established NP, MD/DO program.

I wonder when this article was written?

It was very well thought and written, and makes total sense. How could anyone argue with this (although I know they will). I am a rural NP and would jump all over this immediately, even if it cost an additional $100K. I am at a loss to explain why this isn't in place.

They may gripe because we took a different and (they'll say, "easier") path, but how can you even say that? I have 8 years of total undergrad and grad school including every premed science completed. I would choose the traditional path if I were starting over as I think that would be much easier than the PA/NP to MD route proposed. However, it would solve a lot of the rural health care problem and give some of us a chance to learn more and become better prepared clinicians that we (I) so desparately want. I'm sure we get made fun of by doctors for "practicing medicine without a license" or "not knowing our a** from a hole in the ground" or "taking the easy route". You know what my answer is? It's much harder than what they are doing. You think I like trying to be a diagnostician on a difficult case when a child's life may weigh in the balance? You think it's hard being a doctor? Try being a doctor without going to medical school. That is hard! It sucks! I can't stand not knowing every answer. I know no one knows every answer, but I sure would know a lot more of them if a med school would open up a new route for training. To those who are preparing to type, "why don't you just go to medical school?" I have a wife and daughter I'm just not willing to drag through the traditional style.

cormann · Jul 15, 2006

^^^^

I totally agree. This perspective is a unique one and one that I am sure would be met with much criticism. I agree that NP's have an enormous amount of schooling behind them and should have access to continuing medical education, especially taking advantage of online learning. I am also curious to know if this thought has been explored by others and when this passage was written.