differences between PA and NP?

[magichospital]

i was just checking out the requirements for uc davis school of medicine for physicians assistant and comparing it to their family nurse practitioner master's program and i noticed there's a big difference. i once heard that pas are one step below doctors (just read about it, not sure if that is true. i neither take that statement as true or false.). to get into the pa program according to this guide, all you needed was an associate degree (did not list in what) and 60 units to apply and take the certificate program. for the fnp-msn track you had not only to have your bsn but take the gre as well. this seems a little strange to me considering the previous statement. i expected the msn to be difficult but i am wondering why the pa program isn't more difficult than listed to get into (compared to msn, if they really are "one step below doctors"). i got this guide from my local cc and have yet to talk to a counselour about it. but i was wondering:

can anybody tell me more about pa what the are/do compared to nurses?

what is the salaries of pa compared to np? (i'm not in it for the money, just curious how they stack up to each other)

is pa considered a stable and "safe" career to get into now like nursing is supposed to be?

[color=#006699]http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos081.htm i read a little bit about pa on here but i am curious as to the specific roles they play in hospitals and other facilities as compared to nurses.

thank you:nurse:

[GM2RN]

That's another huge debate in itself. I am a NP and can tell you that my nursing experience has little to do with my day-to-day job function. I examine, diagnose, and treat patients and none of my nursing experience has helped with the exception of how to talk to patients. I believe that NP education should be as standardized as PA education is and include many more clinical hours and science courses.....but that is for another thread....:)

I don't entirely disagree. But I think it depends on the experience that a nurse has had relevant to the specialty that they practice in as an NP. What is more relevant, however, is that nursing lays more of a foundation for understanding and gives a leg up on the education than that of someone who may have been a phlebotomist or MA prior to entering a PA program.

[lckrn2pa]

I don't entirely disagree. But I think it depends on the experience that a nurse has had relevant to the specialty that they practice in as an NP. What is more relevant, however, is that nursing lays more of a foundation for understanding and gives a leg up on the education than that of someone who may have been a phlebotomist or MA prior to entering a PA program.

I do agree with you on this. With almost 2 decades of ER care behind me I found some things in PA school I really didn't have to devote as much time to as my peers. EKG's was one area that I really never had to put more than a couple hours reviewing and put the extra study time to other areas. I have noticed though as time goes on through the past 10 months that no matter the background the knowledge base of the class overall is vastly improved. We have a 2hr class that is a review of the material for the past 10months and things the class struggled with initially most are proficient in recognizing now. PA school is structured to take basic knowledge and expand it through a crash course mentality, like drinking from a fire hydrant.

[TakeBack]

Some PAs can prescribe medicine, some can't.

PAs prescribe in all 50 states.

The only variability is the DEA schedule, and I bleieve FL has a restriction to stat formulary. But other than that PA prescribing is the nat'l standard.

[TakeBack]

What is the salaries of PA compared to NP? (I'm not in it for the money, just curious how they stack up to each other)

There's good numbers on this at Advance for NP/PA.

The average salary including all comers is a shade higher for PAs but I believe this is due to the greater number of PAs in higher earning surgical specialties. When you go in each specific field it's usually close, NPs higher in some, PAs in others.

The difference to me is your previous experience. As a nurse, NP is a logical progression unless you really want a surgical field or one that is primarily held by PAs in your target work region.

As someone said earlier, the number of NPs who are in true independent practice (ownership) is low and close to what it is for PAs who are majority owners of their practices.

Collaboration vs supervision- an old discussion. It may be a moot point if you plan to work inpatient in some practices or one of the majority of states where physician collaboration is required to practice or prescribe as an NP.

[TakeBack]

I believe that an NP can work independentaly but a PA must work under the direct supervision of physician. Also, here in Mass - the salaries are the same.

PAs practice under indirect supervision most of the time, meaning on the same campus, available by phone/telecom etc. This is best seen in remote/underserved areas where PAs are solo providers, where PAs do facility visits/house calls, PAs who staff UC/occ med practices solo, etc....

[TakeBack]

but yes PAs do work under the license of a "supervising" (name on the paper) physician.

PAs have their own license, they don't practice "under" any license except their own.

They work under a co-signed practice agreement with a supervising/sponsoring physician.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

What kind of "significant healthcare experience" do you mean? I know some PAs have been nurses, but the requirements for the PA programs that I have seen include that of phlebotomists, MAs, CNAs, and EMTs in addition to nursing. In my opinion, nothing but nursing equates to the experience that virtually all NPs have.

*** None of the PA programs here in Wisconsin require any health care experience at all. For many of the PA students who do rotations in our hospital the first time they ever touched a patient, and for some the first time they were ever even in a hospital except as a visitor, was during their first clincal rotation. My observation is that the further west you go the more experience PA schools require

[dissent]

*** None of the PA programs here in Wisconsin require any health care experience at all. For many of the PA students who do rotations in our hospital the first time they ever touched a patient, and for some the first time they were ever even in a hospital except as a visitor, was during their first clincal rotation. My observation is that the further west you go the more experience PA schools require

Realize that this is the exact same thing as most MD programs. During the end of 2nd year and the beginning of 3rd year it is the first time they really touch patients. I think that most would agree that the end product of physician training is clinically the most competent provider. So having no clinical experience at the start of the program means very little, especially when the clinical training entails multiple thousands of hours.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Realize that this is the exact same thing as most MD programs. During the end of 2nd year and the beginning of 3rd year it is the first time they really touch patients. I think that most would agree that the end product of physician training is clinically the most competent provider. So having no clinical experience at the start of the program means very little, especially when the clinical training entails multiple thousands of hours.

*** I fully understand what you are saying but I disagree. My observation is that people (at least us nurses) seem to expect PA student to already be experienced in health care. Nobody expects medical students to have any hands on experience at all. Those that do are the exception.

I hope you didn't think I was criticizing the no health care experience model. I wasn't. Even though such a model is very far from the origins of PAs it obviously works and produces competent practitioners.

[TakeBack]

*** None of the PA programs here in Wisconsin require any health care experience at all. For many of the PA students who do rotations in our hospital the first time they ever touched a patient, and for some the first time they were ever even in a hospital except as a visitor, was during their first clincal rotation. My observation is that the further west you go the more experience PA schools require

this is a link to a list created by one of our members at PA forum. It's several yrs old but you can see the general even split between require/encourage/don't require.

http://www.physicianassistantforum.com/forums/showthread.php/13564-Medical-experience-requirements?highlight=

The other thing to consider is the competition for seats often drives the actual numbers for the matriculants higher than the minimun for application (just like GPA etc)