Clinical Nurse Leaders (CNL): Where are they now?

[IDon'tWanna]

Hi Everyone—this is my first post. I searched around and didn't see an existing thread but please do let me know if I'm in the wrong area or if this question was already addressed.

I'm curious about how CNL grads are currently holding up? Earlier threads (2009-2012) indicated that the field was new, that there was no point to being a CNL, that other nurses wouldn't like you and you don't do any real patient work…honestly, it was a little negative.

I'd like to get the perspective of a seasoned CNL grad today. What was your experience 1yr, 2yr, 5yrs out? Were the jobs there? Were you resented? Do you feel you made the right decision choosing the CNL over the BSN?

I live in the DC metro area and I'm about to make the switch to the nursing field. At 32 it's a strange blessing to feel like I've finally found my calling. For obvious reasons, the CNL has its advantages, but the BSN is clearly cheaper (My ultimate goal is to become a CNM/WHNP (baby catcher) so I see how a double masters could be an expensive endeavor). To be clear: I would never expect to come out of school leading” other nurses—that's both ridiculous and dangerous. But I feel like it would be great to start off working hard just like every other novice, with the added benefit of being trained to improve efficiency and outcomes (which circles back to the CNM/WHNP).

So, anyone willing to share their real-life experience with this degree?

[Murse901, MSN, RN]

I am not a CNL, but three of my good friends completed CNL programs after I suggested that they do that instead of a second Bachelor's. After four years as a staff nurse, one just recently secured a position as a "Patient Care Coordinator" (equivalent to an Assistant Nurse Manager in most hospitals). The other two, after three years, are still staff nurses.

The thing with the CNL degree -- or any direct-entry MSN -- is that you're still a baby nurse when you graduate. There is only one CNL program in my area, and the graduates have a bad reputation because many -- not all, but many -- come out of school expecting to go straight into a nurse leadership position. Not gonna happen.

The other half of this problem is that you have people who have zero clinical experience attempting to write papers and give presentations on topics that they have no meaningful experience with. As a direct-entry option, the CNL is just poorly implemented.

My three CNL friends are excellent bedside nurses. However, I don't think that the CNL portion of their program really prepared them to be leaders any more than any other direct-entry MSN program would have.

If you already have a Bachelor's degree, I would definitely check into a direct-entry MSN of any kind. However, just be realistic -- as you seem to be -- about career expectations.

If you do not already have a BSN, I would go for the cheapest and fastest option that will get you into a CNM program.

[ShantheRN, BSN, RN]

I'm currently in a CNL program, and I will tell you.....there is definitely some conflict. Personally, I do not think a brand new nurse is qualified to be a nurse leader. I say this from the perspective of someone that has been bedside for 5 years. The faculty gets all in a tizzy if you suggest that a new grad cannot be a leader. How can you lead when you don't even understand the basics of the position? It baffles me. It's also annoying because a lot of class time is spent explaining concepts that bedside nurses understand, but are totally new to the direct entry students. I get blackmailed into coming to class because everything is a group project lol

That being said, there are CNL positions across the country, although the market isn't great right now. Despite the evidence that shows CNLs improve so much in health care, it's been slow to catch on.

[MidwifeAPRN219, MSN, RN, APRN, CNM]

I just graduated from a direct entry CNL program. I work as a Staff Nurse in Obstetrics, and I procured that position prior to graduation. I, too, am working towards becoming a CNM. As I've worked in the OB field prior to starting nursing school/CNL program, I truly believe having both the CNL knowledge and being a CNM will be quite beneficial. There are few and far between CNL positions in OB which is where many hospitals need the change the most. I looked nationwide for CNL jobs in OB just out of curiosity, but I only found one and that was a temporary position. Because the OB floors need the change so desperately, having the knowledge of a CNL AND being a CNM gives a unique opportunity to help bring change to OB floors. I do think my CNL program prepared me well not only to be a nurse, but to be a leader and a proponent of Evidence Based Practice. A leader does not have to equate to management btw. My program did not expect us to go straight into CNL roles. They told us that it's best to get Staff Nurse experience prior to going into the CNL role. (Plus, many CNL job postings require being an experienced nurse). I do believe that even if you do not work directly as a CNL or even get the CNL certification that the knowledge you obtain during a CNL program can only benefit you in the future as a CNM. If you read the CNL white paper, the CNL is the epitome of what many midwives stand for!

[NanikRN]

I am not a CNL, but three of my good friends completed CNL programs after I suggested that they do that instead of a second Bachelor's. After four years as a staff nurse, one just recently secured a position as a "Patient Care Coordinator" (equivalent to an Assistant Nurse Manager in most hospitals). The other two, after three years, are still staff nurses.

The thing with the CNL degree -- or any direct-entry MSN -- is that you're still a baby nurse when you graduate. There is only one CNL program in my area, and the graduates have a bad reputation because many -- not all, but many -- come out of school expecting to go straight into a nurse leadership position. Not gonna happen.

The other half of this problem is that you have people who have zero clinical experience attempting to write papers and give presentations on topics that they have no meaningful experience with. As a direct-entry option, the CNL is just poorly implemented.

My three CNL friends are excellent bedside nurses. However, I don't think that the CNL portion of their program really prepared them to be leaders any more than any other direct-entry MSN program would have.

If you already have a Bachelor's degree, I would definitely check into a direct-entry MSN of any kind. However, just be realistic -- as you seem to be -- about career expectations.

If you do not already have a BSN, I would go for the cheapest and fastest option that will get you into a CNM program.

But not all CNLs are direct entry. My hospital utilizes CNLs and won't consider a nurse with less than 2 years experience. most are nurses with over 10 years experience.

In my hospital, CNLs have resposibility over a certain number of pt beds. Pt satisfaction scores, etc are all part of what their eval is about. The degree plan isn't actually designed to get them into a leadership position like nurse manager or assistant nurse manAger.

I agree with you, though, that direct entry CNL is not wisely implemented

[Hope2banurse1]

The thing with the CNL degree -- or any direct-entry MSN -- is that you're still a baby nurse when you graduate.

I have a question that I would truly like for it to be answered. If you're a baby nurse with an msn, what are you with an asn/adn, or bsn? Are you a fetus or also a baby nurse? Because I mean, they also have to do clinicals and internships too. What is the reason you called cnl and other DE people baby nurses, but didn't include the lower degrees in that? Curious to know....

[llg, PhD, RN]

When most people talk about "baby nurses" in that context, they mean ANY new grad RN, regardless of the academic level of their basic nursing preparation. They are referring to all nurses who have gotten through school and the NCLEX, but who have not yet gotten much on-the-job experience.

[Hope2banurse1]

When most people talk about "baby nurses" in that context, they mean ANY new grad RN, regardless of the academic level of their basic nursing preparation. They are referring to all nurses who have gotten through school and the NCLEX, but who have not yet gotten much on-the-job experience.

As they should and I can understand that, but somehow most like to point out only the DE MSN students as such like somehow BSN students have more on them. It's annoying to see. You'd think nurses would welcome potential nurses without criticism. Cause, let's face it, they do so a lot. That's sad.

I was an RN with years and years of vast nursing experience, spanning the spectrum from Hospice to ICU bedside care, before I became an MSN CNL. There are Many RN's out there who come to the bedside with a new MSN/CNL who have years and years of experience.

These RN's who go back to college to get their MSN/CNL are steadily growing in number. Additionally, hospitals and other healthcare employment areas are realizing the value of having nurses who are not only adept at taking care of patients at the bedside, but are also highly educated and not stuck in a 'silo of care' focus.

How am I holding up as a CNL grad? I'm doing awesome! I haven't regretted getting my MSN CNL at all, and consider myself very fortunate to be on the receiving end of a wave that is building towards utilizing more CNL's in my area of the world (Left coast).

I enjoy the respect of having my MSN degree with a focus in Clinical Nurse Leadership, and no one has ever dared to approach me and stated that a CNL is a worthless investment. Working with students in an RN program, and alongside other RN's at the bedside, I frequently am asked to give impromptu explanations of how they can get to where I am at with my MSN/CNL.

I am able to enjoy way more job prospects as a MSN versus a BSN in a Magnet hospital, and also am able to teach at a local college because of my MSN degree.

If I desired to return to college to be, say, an FNP or ACNP if I so desired, I would NOT have to get a second MSN degree. I would just obtain a post masters certificate in the area I desired.

Life is good - from a happy 28 year old Nurse, and a 4 year old MSN/CNL.