Ever work with people who talk about church all the time?

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Does it get on your nerves? If so, how do you deal with it?? I'm no devil worshipper, and I see my self as being pretty tolerant of others, but I work with some people who seem kind of smug about their church attendance and often find a way to work that into many a conversation. Completely unrelated conversations.

Specializes in CEN, CFRN, PHRN, RCIS, EMT-P.
Okay, after looking up four or five of the journal articles you posted (I'm not going through that two-part wall of text you posted, without relevant links, any more than that, because I have a life), the idea of religion triggering schizophrenia does not seem well-supported at all. In fact several of the studies seem to have found that, while religious delusions are common in schizophrenics, religion can also be a coping mechanism with positive effects. One of them even stated, "In treating patients with such symptoms, clinicians should go beyond the label of "religious delusion," likely to involve stigmatization, by considering how delusions interact with patients' clinical and psychosocial context." Another found that while religiously-involved patients were more likely to have religion-centered delusions, non-religious patients were more likely to have delusions of alien forces penetrating and controlling their minds and bodies.

All in all, not a whole lot of support for your idea that religion is either a cause or a trigger for schizophrenia.

Why get all defensive, did you read my disclaimer "not my words" I shared the wiki to stimulate discussion on the topic, I never claimed this as my opinion

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Thanks for a thoughtful response, it's fun to see a fellow atheist make assumptions and straw man another person and think it won't be noticed. Bravo!

Thank you for the accolades.

Well, Wikipedia are certainly free to give me a call if they desire to deliver an accusation of a strawman argument. While they're at it, I'd appreciate an explanation as to why they feel that's what I did. Personally I wouldn't refer to Wikipedia as a person though.

You didn't actually express any of your own thoughts or opinions in your post, you simply posted a quote. You left it to others to try to decipher if you had an actual message you wanted to convey, and what that message might be. The only part of my post directed at you specifically was me wondering what the purpose was for posting this particular Wikipedia quote. I could have specified this, but I thought it was obvious since you weren't putting forth an opinion of your own.

I don't believe that anyone is being defensive, only hoping for a clarification of some sort. Your intention wasn't exactly crystal clear, so it follows that people might misinterpret what you meant, if that is indeed what happened. So, do you believe that religion can be a trigger for schizophrenia, if so then why? How does it relate to the rest of this thread?

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Specializes in CEN, CFRN, PHRN, RCIS, EMT-P.
Thank you for the accolades.

Well, Wikipedia are certainly free to give me a call if they desire to deliver an accusation of a strawman argument. While they're at it, I'd appreciate an explanation as to why they feel that's what I did. Personally I wouldn't refer to Wikipedia as a person though.

You didn't actually express any of your own thoughts or opinions in your post, you simply posted a quote. You left it to others to try to decipher if you had an actual message you wanted to convey, and what that message might be. The only part of my post directed at you specifically was me wondering what the purpose was for posting this particular Wikipedia quote. I could have specified this, but I thought it was obvious since you weren't putting forth an opinion of your own.

I don't believe that anyone is being defensive, only hoping for a clarification of some sort. Your intention wasn't exactly crystal clear, so it follows that people might misinterpret what you meant, if that is indeed what happened. So, do you believe that religion can be a trigger for schizophrenia, if so then why? How does it relate to the rest of this thread?

Why is it that you continue to attribute meaning and intent where there is none. The simple answer is that I found the article interesting and thought I'd share it here to stimulate thoughtful discussion. Being that we are discussing people sharing their religion at work I thought this editorial would provide another perspective. Now for my opinion, I happen to think this may apply to many people, Christian or not. As far as straw man, I meant to say you are attributing meaning to my intent that is clearly not there. Don't get offended, all I'm doing is sharing, leave emotion and ad hominem out of it.

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

MODERATOR NOTE:

This thread is about people who talk about religion at work.

PLEASE stick to topic

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Specializes in hospice.
Why get all defensive, did you read my disclaimer "not my words" I shared the wiki to stimulate discussion on the topic, I never claimed this as my opinion

You provided two pages of unlinked journal articles to back up the assertion in the Wikipedia quote. If it's not your opinion, your attempt to defend and support it seems illogical.

I am not defensive. I am picking apart your argument in a logical manner, using the very sources you provided. It's called debate.

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I will concede that my tone is harsh, but the number of abuses that I have endured at the hands of religious types has colored my perspective. Just because I don't believe in Hell doesn't make it any less hurtful for a person to tell me I am going there.

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Specializes in hospice.

None of those abuses were meted out by anyone here, and condemning an entire group for the behavior of some of its members is the very definition of prejudice and bigotry. Your injuries don't give you the right to abuse the innocent.

I'm sorry you've faced abusive treatment from religious people. We need religion because we're sinners. No human being living today is perfect. Anyone who claims otherwise is a liar.

I hope you'll try to moderate your tone and contribute to future discussions much like macawake has done on this thread. S/he gives respect and gets it back, if you noticed.

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Specializes in CEN, CFRN, PHRN, RCIS, EMT-P.
We need religion because we're sinners. No human being living today is perfect. Anyone who claims otherwise is a liar.

This fallacy posted here reminds me of this thing I read:

"If something is perfect, nothing imperfect can come from it. Someone once said that bad fruit cannot come from a good tree, and yet this "perfect" God created a "perfect" universe which was rendered imperfect by the "perfect" humans. The ultimate source of imperfection is God. What is perfect cannot become imperfect, so humans must have been created imperfect. What is perfect cannot create anything imperfect, so God must be imperfect to have created these imperfect humans. A perfect God who creates imperfect humans is impossible."

http://www.evilbible.com/Impossible.htm

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Specializes in hospice.

Calling human beings imperfect is a fallacy. Alrighty then..... :confused:

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Specializes in CEN, CFRN, PHRN, RCIS, EMT-P.
Calling human beings imperfect is a fallacy. Alrighty then..... :confused:

Nope, the fallacy is the reason you have for needing religion. The argument I posted relates to humans being imperfect, I believe the concept of perfection is a fallacy, so I agree with you there, but nothing will ever fix imperfection because perfection is a human construct.

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Let us look at the concept of sin for a moment. I think the most basic understanding of the word, is that to "sin" means 'to do something bad.' I don't think religion is the best remedy for that, I really don't.

Take killing for instance. I think we can all agree that killing is "something bad," a "sin." So...without a higher power watching over us with a promise of punishment if we ever kill someone, what stops us from killing?

Law? Maybe. The legal system we have where I live, in the United States borrowed heavily from English Common Law, which was (please someone correct me if I am wrong, I am not well versed in British history) loosely based on the bible. With that in mind, one can argue that we need the bible to prevent people from killing or stealing from each other, a basis for a peaceful society. What if we lived in a world without religion though, what would stop people then?

I think the answer is empathy. If there were no laws against killing, and we were reasonably certain there is no higher power watching over us, I would argue that rational human beings (that is those free of significant mental illness) still wouldn't kill people for personal gain--or just because they don't like each other. I honestly believe people wouldn't be able to bring themselves to do it, the weight of the wrongness of taking another life would weigh too heavily on most people.

Personally, I trust human empathy (something we can see) to police our behavior over a supreme being (something we cannot see) promising punishment for crossing the line.

You may point to serial killers, war mongers and other people who wage wonton destruction onto their fellow human beings as evidence that we need religion to prevent this from happening, but I don't think that is an honest argument. Most mass murderers and serial killers have something fundamentally wrong with them which allows them to do the horrific deeds that most of us can't imagine. The only exception I can think of is Heinrech Himmler...of him, one psychiatrist said he was "shockingly normal." But then, then deviations from normal data are pretty common when it comes to human behavior.

I did my best to tone it down as you suggested, duskyjewel. How did I do?

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Specializes in hospice.

Pretty good. :up:

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