The Great Double Standard? - page 10

I would like opinions from the rest of you guys. It seems everywhere I turn that there is this double standard that men nurses should not be providing care for any of women's intimate needs. I am... Read More

  1. by   lefteddie
    GM2RN & NURSE MIKE,

    I would be glad to give a few examples of court cases documented with case numbers. This is not a rare thing at all, the reason you seldom hear about it is men usually don't challenge the status quo; they just go along with the program and be humiliated. Women speak up, that's why medicine is female friendly, the hospitals and clinics know females will sue in a heartbeat. Like I said, women don't face opposite gender intimate care at every step of the health care system. I'm not saying if they don't make their preferences known that they may not get same gender care, it is possible, but not likely.
    Whereas with men, the deck is stacked against them. Men do have a choice of doctors, most, not all, but 95% of men choose a male urologist, that should tell you something. Also, very few females go into Urology to be an M.D. they know most men will want same gender care. Where things change is outside the doctor's office, once in a hospital it's a sea of women, men don't have any choice. Your answer to what to do if no male support staff are available is to HIRE THEM. The hospital environment is a monopoly; the only way to break up a monopoly is usually through outside help, as in affirmative action to get more men into those positions. With an all female administrative staff in hospitals protecting the all female staff this will never come to pass. Same as in years gone past for women being discriminated against in men's jobs, just saying we need more women to apply didn't solve the problem. Action had to be taken to make it happen. I will give some court cases to support my claim, they can be lengthy, so I'll just attach a few that show the courts decision on bodily privacy. Nursemike, it's admirable that you help out your female counterparts when you can, but, and it's a big but, you are doing this to help your peers, the focus in your own words isn't the patient. Focus on the patients concerns then your motives will be aligned in the right direction. You will be helping your peers and accommodating the patient's needs. GM2RM, you don't see the disparity when it comes to how women's modesty is treated in health care versus men's. Like I said, a woman can go to almost any doctor, get any test, and be assured that she won't have to endure opposite gender intimate care. If she does encounter it, all she has to do is say she is uncomfortable with it and in 99% of the cases she is accommodated. All I'm saying is, the deck is stacked for men, this is thought to be one major reason 35-40% of men won't go for regular check ups. You don't have to have a 50-50 mix of gender in health care to accommodate men's modesty, but it would be nice to hire One Sonographer for men's intimate tests, and keep one male nurse on each shift for the men that desire same gender care for Caths, One for Surgical prep for those that want it. Is that too much to ask? It might bring the total male support staff all the way up to 8 or 10%. Men die on average five years younger than women and the health care system turns their back on them. There is no office of men's health in Washington; I believe there is for women. Check your State licensing board and see how many male mammographers are licensed in your State, the answer should be near zero if not zero. I wonder why this is, if medicine is gender neutral as it appears, it's only for one gender, men. Urology is no different, no less sensitive for men than OB/GYN for women. Find an all male urology clinic where men can comfortably talk about their problems with men. All of the male urologist's I called were assisted by either female R.N.s or M.A.s, good luck finding one that has a male R.N. or M.A. for the patient's comfort. I called six hospitals in my area looking for a male ultrasound tech, every single one was staffed by females. This post is getting long. I will post court judgments in my next blog. Hospitals ask what they can do to make patients more comfortable, what kind of food they prefer, how about asking what they prefer when it comes to intimate care and not force it on them. No one wants to go into a system that humiliates and degrades them. Surveys have been done asking both men and women about this; it comes out almost the same for both genders. About 50% don't care one way or the other who cares for them, the other 50% do. It's a choice I think that needs to be addressed for those that do. You're the one's clothed in the encounter, the patient is the naked one laying there putting their trust in a stranger. Next post I will include some court judgments, if you need more let me know, I can provide another 50-100, although they take up a lot of blog space.
  2. by   lefteddie

    some case law & judgements that went against hospitals for violating patients privacy rights where opposite gender care was involved:

    case law:

    applying virtually the same standards, the court in jones v. hinds general hospital found a hospital's gender discriminating policy, which resulted in female nurse assistants being laid off before male orderlies with less seniority, was justified for privacy reasons. the evidence relied upon by the hinds court included objection and refusal by a significant number of male patients to procedures of an intimate nature being performed by female assistants, thus precluding all or substantially all females from performing intimate procedures on male patients. additionally, the court was convinced that no alternative practices with less discriminatory effect existed which would satisfy the legitimate needs of the hospital given the size and organization of the business.

    ", "do patients have a legal right to choose the sex of their nurse, especially when intimate procedures are involved?" the answer seems to be an unambiguous "yes." in backus v. baptist health center and eeoc v. mercy health center, the courts concluded that the desire of americans to cover their naked bodies, especially from people of the opposite sex, is "a matter of elementary self respect and personal dignity" and has its foundation in the "fundamental right to privacy." in shulman v. group productions, the court added that anyone who would usurp these rights "is the master of the other" who uses the "primary weapon of the tyrant. . . one who intentionally intrudes, physicially or otherwise, upon the solitude or seclusion of another or his private affairs or concerns [including the provision of intimate care over his objections is subject to liablity to the other for invasion of his privacy."

    a quote from a yale law blog:

    now, regardless of this, male patients have as much right to modesty as females and bfoq anti-discrimination law that extends from 1964 allows facilities to staff according to modesty requests. unfortunately, right now, across this land, these requests are being, ignored, suppressed, undocumented, and male patients mocked for their modesty concerns. in your search for employment remember that when you hear female staff supervisors tell you they have no requests for male techs for intimate pelvic care it's a big lie designed to protect their gender-status, jobs, and all-female working environment.




    westlaw
    15 yjlf 225 for educational use only page 16
    15 yale j.l. & feminism 225
    (cite as: 15 yale j.l. & feminism 225)
    2006 thomson/west. no claim to orig. u.s. govt. works.

    *269 before examining title vii in the prison setting, it is useful to examine its deployment in another setting where employment rights conflict with privacy rights or "customer preference." for example, several title vii challenges have been raised where a qualified male nurse is prevented from intimate contact with female patients. [fn291] in each case, the male nurse's employment rights gave way to the female patient's privacy rights. [fn292] in non-prison settings, the solution appears straightforward: privacy trumps employment rights; this applies for both men and women. [fn293]



    legal eagle eye newsletter for the nursing profession october, 1996 page 5


    the superior court of new jersey,
    appellate division, recently upheld
    a male home health aide’s
    gender discrimination lawsuit against his
    former employer’s policy of allowing both
    male and female aides to care for male clients,
    while only female aides were assigned
    to care for female clients. the court ruled
    that an employer’s policy of completely
    excluding males from caring for females is
    unlawful gender discrimination.
    a healthcare employer is permitted to a
    limited extent to honor specific requests
    from patients of either sex for same-sex
    caregivers. these requests may be honored
    if, and only if, the care to be given is
    of a sensitive personal nature. the court
    gave examples where a patient’s request for
    a same-sex caregiver can be honored: assis
    ting the patient to the commode, cleansing
    the patient’s perineal area and caring
    for a urinary catheter.
    although not stated in so many
    words, the court probably would not approve
    honoring a patient’s request for a
    same-sex caregiver to pass medications,
    change a dressing, hang an iv, assist with
    ambulation, or other patient care which
    does not involve intimate personal privacy.
    the court was particularly offended by
    the home health agency’s policy that male
    clients were assigned male or female caregivers,
    with the clients having no apparent
    choice, while female caregivers only were
    automatically assumed to be appropriate
    for female clients. spragg vs. shore care,
    679 a. 2d 685 (n.j. app., 1996).
    see gender-based shift assignments
    upheld by court over charge of discrimination.,
    legal eagle eye newsletter
    for the nursing profession, (4)9, jun. ‘96, p.
    1 (a male and a female needed with adolescent
    psych patients.); male nurse cares
    for female patient against her wishes:
    hospital liable., legal eagle eye newsletter
    for the nursing profession (4)1, oct. ‘95,
    p.1 (patient handled by male in surgery despite
  3. by   GM2RN
    Quote from lefteddie
    GM2RN & NURSE MIKE,

    I would be glad to give a few examples of court cases documented with case numbers. This is not a rare thing at all, the reason you seldom hear about it is men usually don't challenge the status quo; they just go along with the program and be humiliated. Women speak up, that's why medicine is female friendly, the hospitals and clinics know females will sue in a heartbeat. Like I said, women don't face opposite gender intimate care at every step of the health care system. I'm not saying if they don't make their preferences known that they may not get same gender care, it is possible, but not likely.
    Whereas with men, the deck is stacked against them. Men do have a choice of doctors, most, not all, but 95% of men choose a male urologist, that should tell you something. Also, very few females go into Urology to be an M.D. they know most men will want same gender care. Where things change is outside the doctor's office, once in a hospital it's a sea of women, men don't have any choice. Your answer to what to do if no male support staff are available is to HIRE THEM. The hospital environment is a monopoly; the only way to break up a monopoly is usually through outside help, as in affirmative action to get more men into those positions. With an all female administrative staff in hospitals protecting the all female staff this will never come to pass. Same as in years gone past for women being discriminated against in men's jobs, just saying we need more women to apply didn't solve the problem. Action had to be taken to make it happen. I will give some court cases to support my claim, they can be lengthy, so I'll just attach a few that show the courts decision on bodily privacy. Nursemike, it's admirable that you help out your female counterparts when you can, but, and it's a big but, you are doing this to help your peers, the focus in your own words isn't the patient. Focus on the patients concerns then your motives will be aligned in the right direction. You will be helping your peers and accommodating the patient's needs. GM2RM, you don't see the disparity when it comes to how women's modesty is treated in health care versus men's. Like I said, a woman can go to almost any doctor, get any test, and be assured that she won't have to endure opposite gender intimate care. If she does encounter it, all she has to do is say she is uncomfortable with it and in 99% of the cases she is accommodated. All I'm saying is, the deck is stacked for men, this is thought to be one major reason 35-40% of men won't go for regular check ups. You don't have to have a 50-50 mix of gender in health care to accommodate men's modesty, but it would be nice to hire One Sonographer for men's intimate tests, and keep one male nurse on each shift for the men that desire same gender care for Caths, One for Surgical prep for those that want it. Is that too much to ask? It might bring the total male support staff all the way up to 8 or 10%. Men die on average five years younger than women and the health care system turns their back on them. There is no office of men's health in Washington; I believe there is for women. Check your State licensing board and see how many male mammographers are licensed in your State, the answer should be near zero if not zero. I wonder why this is, if medicine is gender neutral as it appears, it's only for one gender, men. Urology is no different, no less sensitive for men than OB/GYN for women. Find an all male urology clinic where men can comfortably talk about their problems with men. All of the male urologist's I called were assisted by either female R.N.s or M.A.s, good luck finding one that has a male R.N. or M.A. for the patient's comfort. I called six hospitals in my area looking for a male ultrasound tech, every single one was staffed by females. This post is getting long. I will post court judgments in my next blog. Hospitals ask what they can do to make patients more comfortable, what kind of food they prefer, how about asking what they prefer when it comes to intimate care and not force it on them. No one wants to go into a system that humiliates and degrades them. Surveys have been done asking both men and women about this; it comes out almost the same for both genders. About 50% don't care one way or the other who cares for them, the other 50% do. It's a choice I think that needs to be addressed for those that do. You're the one's clothed in the encounter, the patient is the naked one laying there putting their trust in a stranger. Next post I will include some court judgments, if you need more let me know, I can provide another 50-100, although they take up a lot of blog space.


    It seems that your answer to my questions was to tell management to "hire them." That doesn't take care of the problem in the moment, and maybe never if they don't get hired. And that's assuming that there are qualified males to do the jobs you want them to be hired for, which is not going to happen 100% of the time.

    As for management being all women, both hospitals I currently work for are predominently men past the manager level, so that isn't flying with me.

    I can't address any of the rest of your post since I gave up trying to read it without paragraphs.
  4. by   GM2RN
    Quote from Cul2
    "I also don't think we should ask every patient if they prefer a male or female
    doctor, nurse, sonographer, xray tech, ekg tech, etc. That will just open a can
    of worms that will make it impossible to get anything done for ANY patient if
    we have to hunt down the proper gender for every procedure.'

    Let's open the can of worms, take the worms out, analyze them, see what
    they look like -- instead sticking the can on a self and making believe it doesn't
    exist. If you are correct, then there is a need that should be met. Rather than
    ignore the need, take steps to mitigate it. I've said in past posts, the the key
    for most patients is how they're approached, regardless of gender. That's for
    most patients. They'll always be a few who just want same gender care for
    whatever reason, and that should be respected. once had a man tell me
    that, although he wasn't overly modest, he once need a foley cath and a
    female nurse was about to do the procedure. But...she asked him how he
    felt about this and said she'd be glad to find a male nurse if he preferred.
    Although it didn't matter to him, he said this made him feel more respected.
    I think to a large degree that dignity and respect are connected to how
    patients feel about their autonomy and control of the situation. The more
    choices you can give them, the more respected they feel --- generally.
    The modesty issue represents one of the important cultural aspects of
    nursing. You shouldn't assume you know how patients feel about this,
    esp. if you sense a patient's discomfort about modesty and you absolutely
    can't accommodate. That's when it's important to open up that can of worms
    and talk about that issue honestly. That shows respect, rather than just
    going about your business making believe the issue doesn't exist.
    So, getting back to the quote above -- asking preferences shows respect,
    even if the patient has no particular preferences. If it's an issue, face it
    and try to solve the problem rather than just ignoring it.

    So if nurses don't ask every patient they care for which gender of caregiver they want for every procedure they are to have, we don't respect them? That's just nonsense!

    The bottom line should be whether or not the caregiver is qualified and if the patients are getting the quality of care that need.
  5. by   Cul2
    Two points:
    1. "And that's assuming that there are qualified males to do the jobs you want them to be hired for..."
    Those of us old enough, remember the same arguments being used in the 1960's and 1970's to prevent women from entering male dominated professions. The arguments were that either women just didn't want to do these jobs, or that you'd never find any qualified enough to do them. Funny how affirmative action and quotas and recruiting changed all that.
    2. "The bottom line should be whether or not the caregiver is qualified and if the patients are getting the quality of care that need.'
    Of course that's important. But, the fact is, there may be more than one bottom line. And patients have the right to be a part of the decision as to what the bottom line, regarding their care, happens to be.
  6. by   lefteddie
    gm2rn said:

    originally posted by gm2rn
    it seems that your answer to my questions was to tell management to "hire them." that doesn't take care of the problem in the moment, and maybe never if they don't get hired. and that's assuming that there are qualified males to do the jobs you want them to be hired for, which is not going to happen 100% of the time.


    your response to hire more male support staff and the problems with overcoming the issues are exactly the same thing that was said back in the 1970s when women wanted the doors opened up for them in male monopolized jobs, exactly the same, we can’t find any qualified women, etc. through affirmative action qualified women were hired over available men to even out the gender mix in these male monopolies. its time now to look at monopolies that are now discriminating against men and nursing is certainly one of them. gm2rn i don’t know which two hospitals you work for that have mostly men in administration but i can tell you this. there are currently over 3200 hospitals in america, it’s easy to bring any one of them up on the web and look at their administrative staff from the bottom levels of management up to the ceo. its been my experience in checking more than your two, that in over 80% of these 3200 hospitals from the bottom levels of management up to near the top are exclusively made up of females, the ceo is usually a male. in over 90% of the hospitals i’ve looked at the hiring manager is female. this is the same climate that existed years ago that kept women out of male dominated jobs.

    there is an office of women’s health in washington.

    there is no office of men’s health in washington

    there are women’s clinics with all female staff for breast health and gyn issues.

    there are no men’s clinics with all male staff for prostate screening and other men’s pelvic issues.(except for a few e.d. clinics that charge four times the rate)


    originally posted by gm2rn
    i don't disagree that we should try to provide same gender care when the patient requests it, but it isn't reasonable, or even possible, to provide same gender care in all instances, and it's ridiculous to expect it to happen in all cases.

    i also don't think we should ask every patient if they prefer a male or female doctor, nurse, sonographer, xray tech, ekg tech, etc. that will just open a can of worms that will make it impossible to get anything done for any patient if we have to hunt down the proper gender for every procedure.



    gm2rn you’re apparently not trying hard enough, there’s a huge disparity with the way men’s and women’s privacy is treated in the health care system. compare what’s available to women, clinics for women’s health set up in almost every hospital, where are these same clinics for men? mammogram clinics set up for women’s breast health with all female staff, where are these same clinics in urology for men with all same gender care? the only male in a urology clinic is the doctor, the rest of the employees from receptionist to r.n. and or m.a. are female.

    i’m not saying you have to provide same gender care for everyone, but, how about for those that do want it? no effort is being made to even try and accommodate men. hire a few male support staff to honor the requests that you do get rather than say, “we try, but are short staffed. at a level of 5% males staffed, no you can’t, so do something about it. women have choice in america’s health care system, give men the same choices and just maybe we can attract those other 30-40% of men that aren’t getting the care they need out of embarrassment.

    it sickens me when i see commercials in the newspaper or on tv for prostate screening in my area, men go get tested. men show up and find “all female teams.” really people, what are you thinking? we don’t do this for women, would women go get regular tests knowing they had no choice and all of their care staff for intimate care, testing, and exams were going to be men? i think we know the answer to that question as there are no male mammogram technicians.

    gender does matter or we wouldn’t be catering to women in l&d and breast health clinics. its time we offer men the same thing, a comfortable environment that’s gender friendly and non threatening for intimate exams.

    for years now the media has come across with every excuse possible to try and get men to go get regular exams. the consensus is that women go, so if women go, and we focus our ads at women to chide and cajole men into going that maybe that will work. well it hasn’t, if these people step back and see what has worked for women and do the same things for men, men would go. men aren’t little boys, they are your fathers, brothers, uncles, grandfathers, boyfriends, etc. these men fight your wars and help sustain your families. treat them with the same respect and dignity you do the other half of society.

    again, please just staff a few males in strategic locations in hospitals to accommodate the men that do desire same gender intimate care, the deck is stacked against them,

    gm2rn, i purposely broke this up into more of an outline form to make it easier for you to read.

    your all good qualified registered nurses, but these issues need to be addressed; men’s health is suffering because of it.

    i don’t want to leave the ladies out either, occasionally they get opposite gender care but its usually a lot easier for them to refuse service by the male technician or nurse and get the care they want.

    if you provide opposite gender intimate care “against the patients will” you’re breaking the law.

    if you provide same gender intimate care to one gender but not the other, you’re breaking the law, its called discrimination.

  7. by   nursemike
    If I assist my coworkers with a heavy lift, it's true my focus is mostly on my coworkers. If I provide intimate care for a male, do a pt transfer (e.g. bed to chair) or start an IV, my focus is at least as much on the patient as my peers. Through much experience, I can often get a patient (male or female) out of bed and onto a bedside commode or wheelchair by myself. It isn't to show how macho I am, it's often safer and more comfortable. I've seen too many times when a pair of females (nurses and/or aides) each get under a shoulder and lift. Bad technique. I block the knees and lift by the hips, no subluxation, no real strain on me. Can't always be done, but there are other, safer alternatives.

    I can say much the same about assisting with a combative patient. Of course, part of my concern is not wanting my peer to get beaten up. Part, though, is wanting to protect the patient. Don't know why, but some of our confused, combative patients respond better to males. Might be a cultural thing in some cases, but a lot of times it may just be that a deeper voice is less agitating. Then, too, doing it often has taught me things. I've seen a lot of patients come out of a seizure in a state of panic. Simply telling them they are in the hospital and safe is the first step in talking them down. I try to pass what I know along to less experienced females, but it's a lesson you have to see a few times to really believe. And, really, if you are afraid of your patient, it's almost impossible to calm them.

    Patients who are sexually inappropriate or otherwise aggressive to females get me almost exclusive out of consideration for my coworker. Males don't grab at me or hit on me. Some verbally or physically abusive patients are less apt to try to intimidate me, and the others are less able to hurt me. I have bigger muscles and denser bones than my female peers. Those examples aren't very patient-focussed, and it's not that I enjoy being cussed at or struck. Not all aggressive patients are males, by the way. (I get "sexually harrassed" by female patients on a fairly regular basis, but these instances have always been either LOL's playfully flirting, or women my age who feel lonely and/or dependent looking to form a bond beyond the nurse-patient relationship. Not true harrassment in either case, and not nearly as difficult to deal with as a grabby male.)

    My unit has a better-than-average male-female balance, especially with the recent hire of three new males. But there are two of those new hires I can almost bet will be in ICU at their first opportunity. I hope I'm wrong about the newbies, but some of our more experienced males aren't likely to go anywhere, soon. Neuro is a challenge, at times, but also interesting, and it kinda gets in your blood (like sepsis).

    Despite my intentions, I rarely ask patients whether they prefer to have a female nurse assigned. I do explain what I intend to do and ask if it's okay before starting an intimate proceedure on a female. I will ask for assistance from an aide or a nurse (usually female) if I need help. I don't often ask for a witness, although I would if the patient had personality disorders. You don't want to straight cath a histrionic patient solo. Sometimes even with a well-adjusted, oriented patient, you sense anxiety during routine care, so you grab a gal for the personal stuff. Sometimes you get a really hot 14- or 15-year-old and think, man, I just can't go there...hey, Debbie... (not typically a problem, though. Our peds are usually seizure patients and don't need intimate care and have parents with them if they need help to the bathroom, etc.) The latter example (and they don't have to be peds--at my age, 27 can feel a lot like a peds pt) are more about my discomfort, because I don't necessarily know the patient will mind, but our hypothetical Debbie won't mind, because in return for her help, she gets not only my help when she needs it, but the fun of teasing me about it.
  8. by   Cul2
    "Sometimes you get a really hot 14- or 15-year-old and think, man, I just can't go there...hey, Debbie... (not typically a problem, though. Our peds are usually seizure patients and don't need intimate care and have parents with them if they need help to the bathroom, etc.) The latter example (and they don't have to be peds--at my age, 27 can feel a lot like a peds pt) are more about my discomfort, because I don't necessarily know the patient will mind, but our hypothetical Debbie won't mind, because in return for her help, she gets not only my help when she needs it, but the fun of teasing me about it."

    Nursemike and others: The above -- does this ever happen in the reverse? From what I know -- rare if ever. To what extent do female nurses say -- "I just can't go there" when they're confronted with a teen boy and call in a male nurse? You seem to be stating you do it because you feel uncomfortable. You don't know whether the female teen will mind. Are female nurses as attuned to this situation as male nurses? Not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, just trying to get a sense it appears that teen boys don't seem to get the same consideration as teen girls. If this is not the case, let me know.
  9. by   nursemike
    Quote from Cul2
    "Sometimes you get a really hot 14- or 15-year-old and think, man, I just can't go there...hey, Debbie... (not typically a problem, though. Our peds are usually seizure patients and don't need intimate care and have parents with them if they need help to the bathroom, etc.) The latter example (and they don't have to be peds--at my age, 27 can feel a lot like a peds pt) are more about my discomfort, because I don't necessarily know the patient will mind, but our hypothetical Debbie won't mind, because in return for her help, she gets not only my help when she needs it, but the fun of teasing me about it."

    Nursemike and others: The above -- does this ever happen in the reverse? From what I know -- rare if ever. To what extent do female nurses say -- "I just can't go there" when they're confronted with a teen boy and call in a male nurse? You seem to be stating you do it because you feel uncomfortable. You don't know whether the female teen will mind. Are female nurses as attuned to this situation as male nurses? Not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, just trying to get a sense it appears that teen boys don't seem to get the same consideration as teen girls. If this is not the case, let me know.
    I hope my levity has not made it appear that I have ever doubted whether I could control myself with an attractive patient of any age. However, I have seen comments on other threads to the effect that most sexual predators are men, and in some instances there has seemed to be a clear implication that most men are sexual predators. Many--perhaps all--of us have seen enough of that sort of bias to feel sensitized to any appearance of impropriety. When I speak of my own discomfort, I'm mostly referring to that sort of hypersensitivity, although I am not a naturally touchy-feely sort, either. Any sort of intimate contact with a stranger, or, for that matter, even hugging a close friend, requires me to overcome a certain amount of inhibition.

    I have, occassionally, been asked to perform personal care on a younger male patient by a female nurse who was assigned to him. In those instances, it has been my perception that the issue has been the patient's modesty, rather than any discomfort on the part of the nurse. I don't think many female nurses have been conditioned to think they may be seen as perverts if their duties entail touching a patient's penis. And while I certainly don't think a man's modesty is less important than a woman's, I do think a man under a woman's care might be embarrassed, but probably won't feel threatened. There are undoubtedly exceptions, but I think they are exceptions. So, I would have to say, there probably is a double standard, but it isn't entirely arbitrary.

    That said, what has surprised me most as a male nurse caring for female patients is how little a problem it usually is.
  10. by   lefteddie
    Originally posted by GM2RN:
    It seems that your answer to my questions was to tell management to "hire them." That doesn't take care of the problem in the moment, and maybe never if they don't get hired. And that's assuming that there are qualified males to do the jobs you want them to be hired for, which is not going to happen 100% of the time.

    GM2RN, in answer to where to get these male technicians that are so difficult to find, maybe you need to see exactly what is happening by going to one of the online forums for imaging. I won't post the link because I believe it's not acceptable to do so. Just Google "Male ultrasound technician forums." There are many qualified males looking for work in imaging but are being discriminated against by hospital administration. Several say hospital administration tells them they are not the type of person there looking for. Some come right out and admit they are looking for females only. The statisics across America are 85% female imaging technicians and 90-95% female nurses in the roughly 3200 hospitals. The males are available but are not being hired.

    These men are available for these jobs, the hospitals aren't hiring them, they are being discriminated against. It won't be long until someone sues. Its already been mentioned by several people on the blog.

    So, don't go by hearsay, these are facts, hospital administration is purposely discriminating against male imaging technicians being hired. They are forcing their male patients to accept opposite gender intimate care. These same imaging blogs openly talk about being told to go into vascular or some other form of imaging as they won't be hired for abdominal imaging or O.B. In other words, lets keep the all female status, the monopoly, who cares about about men's modesty, we can just force opposite gender care on them. It's probably going to take several law suits from these imaging technicians and or male patients before anyone does anything, or the government steps in with affirative action. I think were approaching that point in time.

    My hope is hospital administration will wake up and listen to the pleas of their male patients wanting their privac dignity, and modesty assured to the extent that is currently available to their female patients.

    MANY male patients are requesting this care, it's going undocumented and uncharted on purpose.
  11. by   Cul2
    [QUOTE=nursemike;4787028]I hope my levity has not made it appear that I have ever doubted whether I could control myself with an attractive patient of any age. However, I have seen comments on other threads to the effect that most sexual predators are men, and in some instances there has seemed to be a clear implication that most men are sexual predators. Many--perhaps all--of us have seen enough of that sort of bias to feel sensitized to any appearance of impropriety. When I speak of my own discomfort, I'm mostly referring to that sort of hypersensitivity, although I am not a naturally touchy-feely sort, either. Any sort of intimate contact with a stranger, or, for that matter, even hugging a close friend, requires me to overcome a certain amount of inhibition.

    I have, occassionally, been asked to perform personal care on a younger male patient by a female nurse who was assigned to him. In those instances, it has been my perception that the issue has been the patient's modesty, rather than any discomfort on the part of the nurse. I don't think many female nurses have been conditioned to think they may be seen as perverts if their duties entail touching a patient's penis. And while I certainly don't think a man's modesty is less important than a woman's, I do think a man under a woman's care might be embarrassed, but probably won't feel threatened. There are undoubtedly exceptions, but I think they are exceptions. So, I would have to say, there probably is a double standard, but it isn't entirely arbitrary.

    That said, what has surprised me most as a male nurse caring for female patients is how little a problem it usually is.


    NURSEMIKE -- I just want to thank you for such an honest and thoughtful
    answer to a question that hits upon what many consider such a sensitive
    topic. Your answer is about the most forthright, logical answer I've had
    with questions like this. I would appreciate it if some female nurses would
    comment on your observations. I'd like to hear their perspective of this,
    especially upon your specific comments.
  12. by   ITSSOSIMPLE
    It's interesting to note that there are no male mammographers anywhere in the united states.Additionally,you don't see male
    nurses in L&D either. As a male patient I have had too many bad (unprofessional experiences) with female nurses regarding
    Personal care. If a female goes for a mammogram she won't have to ask for a female mammographer,they are all female.
    Why should I have to ask for a male nurse for an intimate procedure. Funny,they never ask you for a preference,yet females
    Are always given this option.Discrimination exists for male patients as well as for male nurses. There are many examples of
    unprofessional behavior on the web regarding female nurses and when a male patient asks for a male nurse don't think for a
    moment it has to do with modesty issues.
    You never know what someone has experienced until you walk in their shoes.
  13. by   talaxandra
    I'm in Australia, so things are different, ITSSO SIMPLE, but my former unit manager was a L&D nurse in the '80's and early '90's, despite his penis.

    I'm intrigued by the implication in your statement
    Quote from ITSSOSIMPLE
    Discrimination exists for male patients as well as for male nurses. There are many examples of unprofessional behavior on the web regarding female nurses and when a male patient asks for a male nurse don't think for a moment it has to do with modesty issues.
    that male patients requesting same-gender care-givers do so because of previous maltreatment by female nurses. That's a significant claim - what's it based on?

    I agree that it would be a good thing to have a health care workforce that more accurately reflects the population it serves. Men are certainly scarcer in nursing, allied health and support services.

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