Male nursing and needing chaperone

Nurses Men

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So my hospital just released a new policy stating that all male team members (including nurses) must have a female present when your patient is female and you are going to be behind a closed door or curtain. Any violation results in termination This is crazy when it comes to taking care of my patients, medicating my patients, ect. We never have enough help, so looks like patient privacy is out the door for my patients. but of course physicians and advanced practitioners are exempt. What are my fellow male nurses think about this new policy. Is this not discrimination? Shouldn't it be vise versa for the females?

Specializes in I have watched actors portray nurses.
That is crazy, female nurses can take care of male patients alone but not the other way around. If you violated policy and just did it, you would lose in court as you knew the policy. If on the other hand you were terminated or lost shifts due to lack of male patients or female chaperons...... then you would have a discrimination case

It's just a wacky paradox of illogic and lunacy.

In the end, hospitals want business. They want patients that can pay. If enough paying patients demand green apple cider on Thursdays, hospitals will find a way to deliver green apple cider on Thursdays. If paying female patients don't want male nurses, hospitals will find a way to justify it. If, however, male patient ever began demanding the reverse in a signficant numbers (it would never happen), then hospitals would really be in a bind. They would be afraid of the equal employment opportunity lawyers for the female nurses on the one hand, and afraid of losing the paying male patients on the other. From the hospital perspective, luckily, that will never happen.

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This policy would change rapidly if all male patients demanded a male chaperone when being treated by a female nurse in any intimate manner. They'd never be enough staff to comply with the requests.

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Specializes in OR, OB, EM, Flight, ICU, PACU.......

Call it a double standard, call it Political Correctness, call it what you want, it's still our reality. CYA at all times! In the Field, or in the OR, it doesn't really happen all that much (I never had a TA victim refuse care because I'm male and she was female), and even when I was an L&D nurse, (the Physicians let their patients know they had a male L&D nurse, and only 2 refused the entire 2 1/2 years) it rarely came up. I used to atribute it to my professionalism and natural charm. Good to hear from others and your experiences.

Just my $.02.

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Am still in nursing school, soon finish tho..i think its a barrier towards nursing in general..and most of the females nurses who always seems to have problem..is the old ones that have been it the system for years...they ain't changing...

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Specializes in I have watched actors portray nurses.

It is good to hear that this is often not an issue. The fact remains, however, that healthcare choices are gender based to some extent.

Ideally, a nurse is viewed as a nurse. It sounds like most patients do view it that way.

Patients come with their own individually-unique issues and past histories. I certainly can understand that a female patient may have past issues that impact her preference for a particular gender. It has nothing to do with with a particular male nurse on duty (she doesn't even know him). But, her feelings need to be factored in.

My only point is that patients with issues don't only come in the female version. Male patients can have equally significant gender and modesty issues that should be equally factored in their care delivery equation. They are not. The reality is that She has the choice and can exercise it should she choose to do so. He does not.

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This is, indeed, gender discrimination. If you have a union, you might wanna have a chat. If not, HR.

Gender discrimination, I believe, are NATIONAL per EEOC. http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/qanda.html

If your organization made this rule for male patients and female workers needing male employees as well, that'd *possibly* be acceptable.

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here's where i agree...

" lets not forget men have qualities which can be useful in the nursing profession also. trust me its nice to have a bit of testosterone in nursing. too much oestrogen can kill any working enviornment never mind what speciality!"

here's where i have a problem....

"i think its crazy that men are not allowed to utilise their skills in clinical areas where they come across female patients."

*unless it is the female/male's choice not to expose themselves intimately to the opposite gendered stranger.* most of us want to choose who we expose ourselves to, especially in a public setting and let alone total strangers. why is this always such a thorn to some caregivers when modesty is allowed, expected, and valued (and a legal right) every place in society? why does anyone's right to perform a task take preference over anyone's right to own their own body?

you must keep in mind that nursing school was your choice. who we expose ourselves to should always be up to the patient/client/customer.

i am willing to bet that if a male walked into a female public shower handing out towels, cleaning up messes, or fixing shower heads, it would matter to most who " has a member or lady parts".

this is fairly simple human nature.

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I think the real problem here is that there are really two separate issues that people are continually getting confused.

The first is the issue of gender discrimination in employment, i.e. hiring, firing or assignment based on gender. In most cases this is prohibited by federal law, but there are situations where it is perfectly legal if a BFOQ can be established.

The second issue is one of a patient's right of preference in gender of caregivers assigned to them. This is based in the patient's rights to privacy and autonomy, which are constitutional rights granted under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 9th & 14th amendments to the constitution and have been repeatedly affirmed by case law. A patient also has the absolute right to refuse care by any caregiver for any reason.

The right of employment under the first situation does not override the constitutional rights of the patient. Just because you may be employed in an area with mixed gender patients does not mean you have any right to treat any specific patient. The patient still has the right to refuse and that right takes precedence...and to clarify, they are not refusing medical care, just the caregiver. If a patient refuses you for gender reasons, get over it. It is their absolute right. You still have a job, and there are plenty of other patients to take care of.

When a patient chooses to exercise their right, the institution has limited options:

1. Attempt to accommodate the patient's request if they can

2. Discharge the patient if their condition permits, or arrange transfer to another institution if it doesn't.

And from a legal standpoint, it doesn't matter if it is a female or male that is refusing opposite gender caregivers - the legal basis is the same. The reality, however, is that because of the disproportionate ratio of female to male nurses, CNA's, etc., it is much easier to accommodate a female's request than it a male's request.

I didn't mean to deviate from the original topic, but felt the background above is related to some of the more recent posts. The policy of requiring chaperons is undoubtedly for liability reasons. Like it or not, in our society females are generally stereotyped as caring, mothering individuals, while males are all potential sexual predators. This is the perception that needs to change.

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Just a little historical perspective:

Up until rather recently, *all* male medical and nursing personnel would request a nurse (which for most of modern practice history has been a female), or another female (family member, maid-servant, whatever) present when attending a woman. Indeed many old school doctors still will request not to be left alone with either a minor/female. This was long before the world became "sue happy", and was out of protection for both the physican/male nurse's reputation as well as the patient's.

To be fair, for much of history no "decent" woman/girl was supposed to be alone with any man other than her husband or family member. If a doctor or "male nurse" was a gentleman, he would do the decent thing to preserve his patient's reputation and request a respectable female present.

Many early nursing programs either had whole other divisions for educating men, or allowed men to graduate early because they skipped OB/GYN rotation. Theory being since there was nil chance of "male nurse" being assigned to such wards, why bother.

The feelings against male nurses in favour of females is deeply rooted in the beliefs that women are simply incapable of sexual aggression and or any of the other deviant behaviour so commonly attributed to men. Regardless of how many studies or media reports come out, there is a large body of the population that simply will not move on this subject.

Finally in regards to the last post regarding patient preferences and nursing, should like to point out the "quiet" other form of discrimination, that is transgender and or effeminate nurses.

In many cases such nurses occupy a true no-man's land. Female patients complain about being cared for by "a man". Male patients often make the same complaint and or express other "concerns".

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Specializes in RN.

Disgusting!! I am not yet an RN, but in school, work as a CNA in hospital, here is my $.02-I am completely on board when a lady requests a female for personal care, why would I judge in that situation? But for an institution to put forth such a policy is really scary. This had to be recommended by their lawyers, most everything is about liability in our sue-happy society. Problem is that the fall-out from such a policy is troublesome at best and tragic at its worst! So many inconsistencies...

And yes! I too struggle with the double standard of women caring for men but men are supposed to NOT care for women...something buried deep in the psyche' here, or residuals from our culture, or a hold over from a personal encounter (ie- abuse, rape etc...)...

And I would be willing to admit that this position "assumes" that my intentions are not professional!! And I would be willing to bet that this is at the core of what offends us...the guilty until proven innocent position...thoughts....

Why is it OK for other medical staff but NOT for RN's? because we are still struggling for our rightful respect in the medical profession...

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exit96 -- I don't understand what you're saying in the paragraph below. Would you explain?

"And yes! I too struggle with the double standard of women caring for men but men are supposed to NOT care for women...something buried deep in the psyche' here, or residuals from our culture, or a hold over from a personal encounter (ie- abuse, rape etc...)...

And I would be willing to admit that this position "assumes" that my intentions are not professional!! And I would be willing to bet that this is at the core of what offends us...the guilty until proven innocent position...thoughts...."

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Specializes in I have watched actors portray nurses.
Just a little historical perspective:

Up until rather recently, *all* male medical and nursing personnel would request a nurse (which for most of modern practice history has been a female), or another female (family member, maid-servant, whatever) present when attending a woman. Indeed many old school doctors still will request not to be left alone with either a minor/female. This was long before the world became "sue happy", and was out of protection for both the physican/male nurse's reputation as well as the patient's.

To be fair, for much of history no "decent" woman/girl was supposed to be alone with any man other than her husband or family member. If a doctor or "male nurse" was a gentleman, he would do the decent thing to preserve his patient's reputation and request a respectable female present.

Many early nursing programs either had whole other divisions for educating men, or allowed men to graduate early because they skipped OB/GYN rotation. Theory being since there was nil chance of "male nurse" being assigned to such wards, why bother.

The feelings against male nurses in favour of females is deeply rooted in the beliefs that women are simply incapable of sexual aggression and or any of the other deviant behaviour so commonly attributed to men. Regardless of how many studies or media reports come out, there is a large body of the population that simply will not move on this subject.

Finally in regards to the last post regarding patient preferences and nursing, should like to point out the "quiet" other form of discrimination, that is transgender and or effeminate nurses.

In many cases such nurses occupy a true no-man's land. Female patients complain about being cared for by "a man". Male patients often make the same complaint and or express other "concerns".

True, true.... and more true.

Requesting a female be present was as much about protecting the medical professional as it was about protecting the female patient. Why? Because society has not been able (even to this day) to fully grasp the out-of-wack logic that presumes females are only ever capable of potentially being victims OF MALES and males are only really ever capable of being potential abusers OF FEMALES. In truth, it has never really been like that. For example, adult women have been having sex with teenage boys since the beginning of time. It was only in relative recent times that such behavior was looked at as potential abuse. Adult men having sex with teenage girls have been well established as evil-doers of the worst kind -- worthy of the most severe societal consequences. What about the victims? For example, teenage girls who have sex with their adult male teacher have traditionally been viewed as clear-cut victims. Teenage boys who have sex with their adult female teachers have traditionally been viewed as getting lucky and/or overly sexualized and/or manipulative and/or charming. Certainly such scenarious are not viewed equally. Society has a mindset about who abusers and victims really are -- they look a certain way, they are of a certain Race, they are male and they deserve the utmost vigilence in oversight and monitoring. Middle age male physicians with 20 years experience still are subtely viewed through this suspicous lens of misconception.

Ah... but the 23 year old female nurse who just started last year... we don't have to worry about her. The patients won't have to worry about her. After all, she is female.

When scientific research proves otherwise.... well... it just doesn't seem right, or logical. It can't be. Say it isn't so, Tbrd.

OMG!... female school teachers are bedding their male child students these days like drug addicts chasing their next high. Female correctional officers are bonking male juvenile detainees these days like bull sharks on a feeding frenzy.

Females have flown under the radar of scrutiny on these issues for thousands of years. They have enjoyed the get-out-of-jail-free card ever since ... well.... ever since... um... since the beginning of time.

Society needs to grow up. Society needs to view females through the same lens of respect and accountability it has traditionally viewed males. Responsibility comes with that -- it is not one sided. It is work. It is not easy. Things get more complicated.

Under a more realistic perception/perspective, we can no longer view all female nurses as incapable of cross-gender abuse. And, we can no longer view all male nurses as potentially capable of cross-gender abuse.

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