In nursing school clinical did you experience discrimination / bias from instructor?

Nurses Men

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Hey guys,

So I am an older male nursing student and I just failed a clinical course in pediatrics. Prior to this course I had great grades and very good clinical evaluations. Because this was a semester course and the Peds portion was during the 1st half, I went on to complete my OB clinical during the 2nd half and received a great evaluation. Therefore I know this Peds evaluation was bogus and biased. Unfortunately though, the department's policy is if you fail a clinical you are out of the program.

An acquaintance of mine talked to a nursing professor from another nursing school with a BSN program and told her about my situation. One of the comments that the professor made was that it is typical for males to have problems with clinical instructors in Pediactrics and OB clinicals, especially older males.

I definately believe this was the case in my situation. Without going into a lot of details, it was apparent on the first day of class that my instructor had issues with me and even stated that, "we have issues that we need to work on or we aren't going to pass the class". This culminated in her making many factual falicies on my final evaluation. Bottom line was, among other things, she did not like that I spoke up for myself when she accused me of doing something wrong or, more rightly put, she wrongly accused me of doing something I didn't do.

Anyway, I am defending myself based on the many different factors and not just on the gender bias and/or discrimmination I felt occured. I wanted to know though, if any of you on this forum ever faced any discrimination or gender bias in your clinical classes? What happened? What did you do about it? Do you have any literature that details statistics about gender bias/discimination in nursing schools (I'm having a hard time finding any)? Did any of you seek legal help for it? Who did you handle it with your school/department? How did they handle it?

Any help, info, input, discussion, encouragement you can offer would help.

Thanks

Specializes in Psych, Derm,Eye,Ortho,Prison,Surg,Med,.

If your instructor was female, and you were a good looking guy, and the instructor had a bad case of member envy, there is no way in hell that you would receive a good grade or even pass the course.

Doesn't really help me much Rock.

I'm really sorry to hear this is happening to you Andrew. There are a variety of avenues you can take depending on what stage you are at in the process. Have you already failed the clinical or are you still taking it? Are you still in the program?

Sadly, when things start to go downhill, they move fast and things are stacked against the student and everything is stacked in the instructor's/school's benefit. The way things are set up, the student is guilty until proven innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt and even when that happens everyone will still doubt you.

For me things did not work out well (depending on how you look at it). I fought the nursing department and the school tooth and nail and did not prevail. At first I attempted to work with the instructor and the department diplomatically and following "their rules". When that didn't work, I went to the University. They were spineless and told me that they had a "laissez-faire and hand-off" policy with the Nursing Dept due to professional courtesy b/c they dealt with public health and safety.

I filed a formal discrimmination complaint with the Calif Dept of Fair Housing and Employment and also one with the Dept of Education. Unfortunately I had waited so long in trying to work it out with the Nursing Dept and University that time had run out on statute of limitation so that didn't work. After that I filed complaints with my State and US representatives and the University's Board of Regents. It created a lot of headaches for the department and they had a lot of explaining to do to them.

What finally made them stand up and take notice was when I found out who their accreditation agency was and found out how to file a complaint with them. The nursing department paid attention then and started kissing everyone's a**. Until then the Nursing Department pretty much had contempt for all agencies b/c they knew the University would cover them. All their meetings and correspondences were behind closed doors and I was prevented from seeing any documents and hearing or seeing ANY statements that were made about me or my case. As part of my complaint with the accreditation agency the Nursing Department the agency had to give a copy of their reply of my complaint back to me. That's when I found out all the misstatements and lies the instructor and the department had been making about me and my case to the university and all the officials involved. As a result I ended up replying to the accreditation agency and calling out the Chairperson and all her misrepresentations. I then sent copies to all the University officials I had previously dealt with.

The accreditation agency ended up auditing the department. Because the nursing department privately contracts the agency, their final findings are private between the parties. My understanding though is that the nursing department had to make some serious changes to their policies and procedures b/c of all this. I've also heard rumours that the chairperson is leaving at the end of this year. Don't know if that's b/c of this too.

For me, I've already restarted in another program. I knew there was too much bad blook between me and the program once I went outside the department to go back in. In this particular CSU the department has a particularly nasty reputation with the teaching staff. The CSU I'm in now, I don't think the same thing would happen. It's much, much more professional.

I'm glad I fought the old school and didn't take it lying down. I think far too many student just sulk off and don't fight them. That's why they get away with this crap. I'm also glad I started again with a new school. Its renewed my faith in the profession and the educational institution. One HORRIBLE institution doesn't reflect all of them.

.... After reading your question Andrew I realized I probably didn't answer your question properly in my last post.

Defending yourself in such a situation is very, very difficult. As a matter of fact, "being defensive" is one of the major issues they will use against you in any kind of review setting if you are not 100% agreeable to the instructors recommendations. Therefore you have to be really carefull in your approach to all this and how you carry yourself. You want to show that you remain "teachable" and that you are listening to corrective instruction even though you have some "difficulty in agreeing" with the same facts as your instructor. Once they brand you as "defensive" they will usher you out the door.

The next thing to remember is that as professional nurses, your instructors are masters at documentation and privacy and they will use it to their advantage. Therefore you have to do the same. Document, document, document!!! Write notes on everything you do. If a nurse or your instructor note that you did something well, document exactly what they say. Get the first and last name of every nurse you work with. If you do a skill with a nurse or your instructor ask how you did and document their reply.

If things are really going back and you think your instructor is picking on you, ask for a student to be a witness. If your instructor wants to talk to you 1on1 and pulls you in to an empty supply room or pt. room, ask for a student to come with you as a witness. If you think your instructor unfairly judges your skills find out if the department will call in another instructor to supervise you for one day. Just always have a second pair of eyes and ears on you. That was how my instructor got away with everything. She would pull me into an empty supply room or pt. room, tell me one thing and then do something different or write on my evaluation something totally different. Also, I'd do something with a nurse and it would be fine and when she got report from the nurse later, she'd totally twist the facts around and misinterpret how things went down. I didn't keep a record of the nurses I worked with so I couldn't go back and use them as witnesses.

Be as diplomatic as possible with your instructor. If that's not working, read your nursing handbook and find out what the policy is for handling complaints. The department will fall back on that always AS THEIR protection. If you don't follow the handbook, the nursing department or University will use that as an excuse to throw your complaint out the door at any point down the line as they choose. Miss one step or jump over one person's head and all your protections go out the door. Document in writing everything and prove that you have attempted to work with everyone up and down the chain of command and document how you've done it. Also, follow everything up with an email or a letter documenting what you have done. Also, ask the same from your instructor. If he/she repremands you, ask for it in writing, in an email, or something written. If she compliments you, follow it up with an email, thanking her for the compliment.

Then, start printing everything out and building a hardcopy file b/c you will need it if you go to the university or a lawyer.

I've sent you my email privately Andrew so if you want more specific suggestions, contact me.

Hi Blitz, thanks for writing me back. You have a lot of good tips and advice.

Currently my program's teachers, and maybe even the director, are trying to get rid of me... One teacher whom I had a disagreement with a while back, (who it turns out is a bit of a sociopath,) has since been spreading rumors and propaganda behind my back to try and turn the other teachers and a lot of students against me, and has has been pretty successful at it. All of it is lies and slander. But as you said, they are masters of documentation, and they've been using it to their advantage for a while now. Gathering lots of ammo to shoot me down with, without my knowing. So now that the problem is showing itself, I'm documenting every little thing that happens. I'm even thinking about getting some pocket recorders to have at least one of them running at all times while at the school. I don't think I will be able to use them if this goes to court or anything, but I think I can use them as a memory aid and transcribe events and "quote" them exactly. I don't know how much, if any, good it will do me though.

They want me to just give up, despite my A's and B's, but if I did that I would have to relocate to start all over again at another program =(. It's very discouraging, and the whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but I don't have much of a choice. I don't know if I'm going to win this one, and I still have a very long way to go, but any tips or advice is appreciated.

Thanks again and good luck with your new school :up:

Andrew,

I just sent you another private message.

Biltz

According the state laws, one may secretly record conversations of other parties as long as your voice is in

the conversation. You do not have to tell them. This may be done on the telephone as well.

Hey, yeah I can't really respond in private messages. Apparently new users need 15 posts before they can use private messages. But yeah your circle the wagons example pretty much hits the nail on the head for what they are doing to me. Honestly it's kind of disturbing. I thought things like this only happened in movies. Exaggerated, Hollywood movies at that.

I'm a pretty good student. Not straight A's, but A's and B's. Not incapable by any means.

I don't know. I think I'm going to try and stick it out though. My grades are fine. My professors are managing to lower them just a bit, but they're also taking bits out of other students to make it seem "fair." I suppose they could undercut me at the end of the semester and put in a false failing grade, and even if I had proof I of it I could only take it on the chin and like you said, give them hell so they couldn't do it to anyone else. But I would still be out of the program.

Until then I guess all I can do is document, document, document... Should be a fun next couple of years! Thanks for your help Blitz, I guess I at least I have a better understanding of what I'm up against. I'll try and let you know how it turns out.

Thank you, blitz, for fighting this battle in an organized and civilized manner. You prevailed even if you didn't get what you asked for because you stayed true to yourself. And, who knows how many (male and female) will benefit from the changes in the program that you got rolling. Thank you on their behalf.

Best wishes with your new program.

Specializes in RN.

This isn't exactly "on topic" but it is discrimination>> for my upcoming final RN semester the woman that run the program separated each of us males, not 1 of us is in a clinical together. 6 guys, 6 groups...coincidence? yeah right!!! This is a bunch of BS!!!

This isn't exactly "on topic" but it is discrimination>> for my upcoming final RN semester the woman that run the program separated each of us males, not 1 of us is in a clinical together. 6 guys, 6 groups...coincidence? yeah right!!! This is a bunch of BS!!!

Maybe they thought it would be beneficial to have a male's point of view in each group? It doesn't seem like discrimination to me though.

This isn't exactly "on topic" but it is discrimination>> for my upcoming final RN semester the woman that run the program separated each of us males, not 1 of us is in a clinical together.

It sounds like it could be discrimination, but I don't think I would say a word. If she's really trying to mess with you guys, then provoking some angry reaction could just make her more satisfied. Nursing has been really good to me, but I bet most of us have experienced a few times where people treated us differently simply because of gender. If you're able to focus on your work, stay pleasant and let stuff roll off of your shoulders, that stuff will pass.

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