Bad Boys, Nice Guys and Real Men™

[johny1]

For years, I tried to hammer a square peg into a round hole by falling for the feminist brainwashing that "you need to get in touch with your emotions" etc. Has it ever occurred to women that a man is indifferent because he actually feels indifferent? Maybe he has no need or desire to talk about emotions and the reason why nice guys do is because they base all their self worth on how women perceive them.

Unfortunately the missing piece of the puzzle is that nice guys only take into account what women actually state, not their actions. Now the other problem is swinging over to the other end of the spectrum and replacing the lost piece of the puzzle with trying to ACT tough, aloof and indifferent. This will not work in the long term and will only continue the negativity because the root of the problem has not been dealt with. Acting like a bad boy is still supplicating to women in a different but equally disempowering sense as is trying to be a nice guy.

The solution is simple, we men must pull back the power we give to women and focus on ourselves, for ourselves, not women. We need to find out how we really "feel" when we no longer value ourselves based on how successful we are in attracting women.

THIS IS THE TOUGH BIT We must let go of everything we have built our identity on regarding attracting women and find out once and for all who we really are, how we really want to live our lives, based on our own values. Could it be that when we really give up disempowering ourselves that we no longer have "feelings" of depression, anxiety, low self worth etc?

Could this be the end of seeking a substitute for the masculinity that was always within us?

Could this be the path to becoming a strong confident and well-adjusted man?

Heres the dichotomy, will a man do what's best for himself, taking the risk that women may overtly show disapproval or will he continue to sell himself out by supplicating to women? Men who try to be a nice guy or a bad boy or whatever may just be reacting to their insecurity. There are many negative consequences to these actions: supplicating to women by spending vast amounts of time, money and self respect to win a few crumbs of affection is prostituting ourselves as much as risking a criminal record, our neck, and self respect, trying to impress women. The energy could be put into doing the things we want in our lives and could it possibly be, that maybe, just maybe, women, deep down, want to love and respect a man in his own right, with a strong sense of who he is, what his moral code is, what his boundaries are, and could it be that this is the very essence of what a woman ultimately wants when she says she wants a "real man".

However, it is men who must define what a "real man" is, not women and this is the very reason why he exists and why she responds to him.

[Jokerhill]

i am a nurse in the nicu so i guess i'm sensitive.

i am a member of a car club called the outlaws so i guess i'm a bad boy.

or maybe i am a complex individual capable of being many things, having no need to separate from half of the population. i personally love the other half of the population and like being in a relationship with one. she surly does not define how i feel about myself, i can do that on my own.

i don't want to be alone that is the worse thing i can imagine, and i will work to do what is needed to be in a relationship. but, all relationships take work, the relationship i have with my boss needs to be handled in a certain way. the relationship i have with my brother needs to be different than my mother or my sister, but all relationships take work and respect for each other. both parties in a relationship have and need power in order for it to work, if you broke one leg it is very hard to walk, but you will heal and walk again. but if you cut it off (give it no power) you will only hop around and always have a difficult time. so, what i am saying is one can be stronger but both have to have power for a relationship to work.

"this is the tough bit we must let go of everything we have built our identity on regarding attracting women and find out once and for all who we really are," who i am is a man who wants to be in a relationship with a woman. " how we really want to live our lives," i want to live my live with someone who cares about me and wants to be with me, doing the things that make us both happy. "based on our own values." i have my values and one of them is to respect others values as well. "could it be that when we really give up disempowering ourselves that we no longer have "feelings" of depression, anxiety, low self worth etc?" i don't have these feelings at all when i am in a relationship. in fact when i am in a relationship is when i feel the stongest. it is only when i am alone that i feel these things. when you give someone else power in your life you do not become disempowered, you become stornger. you other leg now works as intended and you can walk.

"could this be the end of seeking a substitute for the masculinity that was always within us?

could this be the path to becoming a strong confident and well-adjusted man?" no, in order to be well-adjusted you have adjusted to something. being alone in not being adjusted it is just being alone there in no adujstment there.

"heres the dichotomy, will a man do what's best for himself, taking the risk that women may overtly show disapproval or will he continue to sell himself out by supplicating to women? men who try to be a nice guy or a bad boy or whatever may just be reacting to their insecurity." or maybe they are being who they are, taking risk is what life is about, being alive we need to adapt and change according to the risk we are faced with and we are willing to take.

"there are many negative consequences to these actions: supplicating to women by spending vast amounts of time, money and self respect to win a few crumbs of affection is prostituting ourselves as much as risking a criminal record, our neck, and self respect, trying to impress women." that is the risk we take in order to fell alive.

"the energy could be put into doing the things we want in our lives and could it possibly be, that maybe, just maybe, women, deep down, want to love and respect a man in his own right, with a strong sense of who he is, what his moral code is, what his boundaries are, and could it be that this is the very essence of what a woman ultimately wants when she says she wants a "real man"." yes, women want to feel alive as well, and will comit to taking risk based on what they are comfortable with. their "real man" is based on their comfort level, and how empowered and alive it makes them feel. you mention boundries, this is an important concept, relationships are all about boundries. if your boundries are to tight the other person may not feel free to be alive and able to grow, if they are too loose the other person will not feel wanted, and each relationship will require diferent boundries.

"however, it is men who must define what a "real man" is, not women and this is the very reason why he exists and why she responds to him." not really, relationships exsist based on the risk you both are willing to take and the boundries you are willing to accept. your only power in this is your willingness to accept their limits or to modify them based on their willingness to take risk, and to have the ability to take risks and adjust to theirs as needed to make you both stronger.

[bnurse88]

Two words.... David Deangelo.

or try Blueprint decoded.

[C-DIFF PHIL RN]

my two words are.....chuck norris.

[AZTECA]

My two words are not permitted on this forum... So I will just say that the OP has probably recently "found himself" or has recently found himself alone.

I say good for him. If this is what it took to bring you to self realization, you are ahead of many of us.

However we are all diffent and in so many ways. If you must define yourself with one word, you have not yet found yourself.

I am a man... I am a pretty big (6'3" 260lb) Mexican guy with tattoos and a goatee, I carry a pocket knife(sometimes 2), I know martial arts, I'm an ex bouncer, I play paintball, I drink beer, and enjoy a nice cigar from time to time. I'm into cars and I'm not affraid of you.... So I'm a bad boy.

I'm into electronics and techie stuff(computers, cell phones and gadgets), I'm somewhat of an audiophile and love to tinker with stuff, I like golf (and even watch it on tv)... So I'm a nerd.

I work in healthcare and am a pre-nursing student... I'm happily married, love my wife (and she responds to me because I respond to her), and my 4 sons, I love to cook (and cook most every night), I help out with the chores at home, I go shopping with my wife, I hold her purse if she's in the dressing room (come take it from me. lol), I roll a tear at movies that touch my caring side.... So I'm a wuss.

This is what makes ME who I am a complex, multi-faceted individual.

MAN... That's my gender.

[bnurse88]

I think women use the label bad boy for men that speak their mind, regardless of what other people think.

There are many other reason's that men are considered bad boys, i.e. independent, goal driven, could care less about a woman's opinion, charming, cocky, etc..., but I think the big one is that a man is willing to just say what is on his mind.

[cop2bnurse41]

Real Men Dont treat their Mates like there MOMS. This is were most men run into trouble! Men get into relationships and all of a sudden they let thier mates become thier mothers because we think thats what they want. Women weather they mean it or not will let themselves fall into this roll. So we start asking permission to do things and we also try to anticipate what they want so we dont get in trouble! Just like when we were little boys. Now personally I can be a Bad boy, Nice Guy, And a Real man all at the same time and that may be what it takes to be a real man. Knowing what is needed at the time. I also do not ask permission to do things! I will get my mates opinion but the decison is mine to be made. Sometimes she is smarter then me so she sways my decison other times she does not. If she gets mad I tell her you are not my mom and to move on. I also tell her I will not make deciosons for her if she wants my advice I will give if not I just keep my mouth shut and let the chips fall. This allows me to only feel the stress and anxiety I place on myself. You sometimes need these things to know that you are still alive and kicking.

I dont know or think I have the answer to what women want all I do know is who I am. Some women like it and others dont and I am good with that!

[tbrd450]

wow, the premise of this is interesting. Basically: exam why we do what we do (as men) ???

There is this abstract thing called "society"... and it consists of males and females and everything in between. Society does establish certain ideals and norms, certain personas. Marketing execs know well to target certain segments of the population when trying to sell something. I wonder, the labels of bad boy, nice guy and whatever else, are they established by women for men? established by men for men, reflecting female opinion/action? I don't know. I always tried to ensure I lived my life avoiding labels as much as possible. They just seem silly and shallow. They are far too narrow to accurately describe any person. After all, I happen to think we are not as good as our best deed, and not as bad as our worst deed.

I happen to think that a relationship (man-woman, or man-man, or woman-woman) that is loving, and mutually fulfilling, serves to uplift both beyond the potential for happiness either one can have alone. The sum is greater than the parts. If one gender doesn't serve to support, nurture and cultivate the very things that are most beneficial to the other gender, then the union fails and fizzles out. Women, or men, who try to shape their partner (basically, change him/her) to fit some ideal of his/her own, is really not meeting the person half way. He/she is doomed to fail.

Generally speaking, men live longer when they are married.

Now, I just wrote a bunch of warm and fuzzies...right? One could argue I am the "nice guy" persona. One could further argue that I am only doing this because I am trying to impress a woman!.... Maybe I am, but I'm not aware of it.

somebody pass me a beer please. I'm about to turn on the manshow,

[EmarosaNYC]

I'm glad it took you this long to figure this all out...but yes indeed you are correct in every way.

Nice guys finish last; need i say more?

[GitanoRN, BSN, MSN, RN]

needless to say, so far i have enjoyed going through this dread, good work guys take it from a bad boy himself

[conuan61]

Nicely said everyone! We need to start looking less at "how" each gender reacts and try to understand (every single day of our lives) that everyone...male or female...is an individual and reacts according to his or her past experiences...good or bad.

My gender...male

My profession...nurse anesthetist (for 25 years)

My family...wife of 22 years, 2 children

My flaws...many

My good points...many

My overall profile...I'm HUMAN...and as such...never done evolving and striving to be a better human being.

I agree with bits and pieces of what everyone so far has said...let's all look out for one another...that's what we're here for!

Everyone, take care.

[jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B]

johny1, seems as if you are meeting the wrong kind of women! I love men. All kinds of men. Blame it on my brothers, honorable men. There are lots like me, and I can take care of myself if I choose to. Your perception is a bit off, as most women I know do NOT want men's money nor men who sell themselves out or short. Nice guys, bad boys these are all characters, not someone's character. And that is the difference. I would stongly suggest you NEVER, EVER supplicate. Nor prostitute yourself. Don't pet the sweaty stuff. And don't quote feminine philosophy. The true feminists can take or leave men, and don't need supplicating. In fact, not many of us do. If a woman or anyone else puts you in that position, I say RUNNNNN!!