johny1

It appears that you have started a thread to convince yourself that what you have read or heard is not really true because you have much invested in being a nursing student and are confronted by it. Nursing is hard at times, no matter your ''mindset" but most Nurses, most of the time just get on with the job. Sometimes it will be rewarding for them, sometimes it will be a huge pain in the ass, but most roll with the punches (well some of the girls might have a cry, then it's all better) when they happen. The one's that don't, get out of the profession. Some Nurses might think they should have done something else in their life, however people in many other occupations would probably say the same. Nurses have plenty of responsiblity and very little authority. We care for patients when the Doctors, Physios, Speech Paths, Dieticians etc have done their rounds and take up the slack of anything that does not fit into the neat Medical or Allied Health boxes. We are basically the dogsbody's at the coalface of the healthcare system. That is the reality but you can always go back to your textbooks that frequently reference "nursing autonomy" if you don't like it. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy being a nurse as many others do. Just take off your rose coloured glasses dude. Oh, and gossiping...well that is part and parcel of working in an occupation vastly dominated by women.

You seem a tad defensive in your reply to Argo, he just said "that's nice" is all. Look man, you came here because you obviously have reservations about putting your wife (partially) through Med school and the consequences after the fact. The reason why little replies have been had here is because there are few female Drs Married to male nurses. Now that could be because there are few male nurses, or that could be because most female doctors are more drawn to men of equal or higher status than them. It's not to say that your plan of you being a nurse and your wife being a doctor won't work, you both may live happily ever after. But keep in mind that women have a hyergamous nature, just as man's primal nature is polygamous. Yet as humans we have intellect and rational thought that can override our base drives. Just take into consideration how the dynamics in your marriage might change after your wife graduates.

Dude, google 'hypergamy'.

For years, I tried to hammer a square peg into a round hole by falling for the feminist brainwashing that "you need to get in touch with your emotions" etc. Has it ever occurred to women that a man is indifferent because he actually feels indifferent? Maybe he has no need or desire to talk about emotions and the reason why nice guys do is because they base all their self worth on how women perceive them. Unfortunately the missing piece of the puzzle is that nice guys only take into account what women actually state, not their actions. Now the other problem is swinging over to the other end of the spectrum and replacing the lost piece of the puzzle with trying to ACT tough, aloof and indifferent. This will not work in the long term and will only continue the negativity because the root of the problem has not been dealt with. Acting like a bad boy is still supplicating to women in a different but equally disempowering sense as is trying to be a nice guy. The solution is simple, we men must pull back the power we give to women and focus on ourselves, for ourselves, not women. We need to find out how we really "feel" when we no longer value ourselves based on how successful we are in attracting women. THIS IS THE TOUGH BIT We must let go of everything we have built our identity on regarding attracting women and find out once and for all who we really are, how we really want to live our lives, based on our own values. Could it be that when we really give up disempowering ourselves that we no longer have "feelings" of depression, anxiety, low self worth etc? Could this be the end of seeking a substitute for the masculinity that was always within us? Could this be the path to becoming a strong confident and well-adjusted man? Heres the dichotomy, will a man do what's best for himself, taking the risk that women may overtly show disapproval or will he continue to sell himself out by supplicating to women? Men who try to be a nice guy or a bad boy or whatever may just be reacting to their insecurity. There are many negative consequences to these actions: supplicating to women by spending vast amounts of time, money and self respect to win a few crumbs of affection is prostituting ourselves as much as risking a criminal record, our neck, and self respect, trying to impress women. The energy could be put into doing the things we want in our lives and could it possibly be, that maybe, just maybe, women, deep down, want to love and respect a man in his own right, with a strong sense of who he is, what his moral code is, what his boundaries are, and could it be that this is the very essence of what a woman ultimately wants when she says she wants a "real man". However, it is men who must define what a "real man" is, not women and this is the very reason why he exists and why she responds to him.

For years, I tried to hammer a square peg into a round hole by falling for the feminist brainwashing that "you need to get in touch with your emotions" etc. Has it ever occurred to women that a man is indifferent because he actually feels indifferent? Maybe he has no need or desire to talk about emotions and the reason why nice guys do is because they base all their self worth on how women perceive them. Unfortunately the missing piece of the puzzle is that nice guys only take into account what women actually state, not their actions. Now the other problem is swinging over to the other end of the spectrum and replacing the lost piece of the puzzle with trying to ACT tough, aloof and indifferent. This will not work in the long term and will only continue the negativity because the root of the problem has not been dealt with. Acting like a bad boy is still supplicating to women in a different but equally disempowering sense as is trying to be a nice guy. The solution is simple, we men must pull back the power we give to women and focus on ourselves, for ourselves, not women. We need to find out how we really "feel" when we no longer value ourselves based on how successful we are in attracting women. THIS IS THE TOUGH BIT We must let go of everything we have built our identity on regarding attracting women and find out once and for all who we really are, how we really want to live our lives, based on our own values. Could it be that when we really give up disempowering ourselves that we no longer have "feelings" of depression, anxiety, low self worth etc? Could this be the end of seeking a substitute for the masculinity that was always within us? Could this be the path to becoming a strong confident and well-adjusted man? Heres the dichotomy, will a man do what's best for himself, taking the risk that women may overtly show disapproval or will he continue to sell himself out by supplicating to women? Men who try to be a nice guy or a bad boy or whatever may just be reacting to their insecurity. There are many negative consequences to these actions: supplicating to women by spending vast amounts of time, money and self respect to win a few crumbs of affection is prostituting ourselves as much as risking a criminal record, our neck, and self respect, trying to impress women. The energy could be put into doing the things we want in our lives and could it possibly be, that maybe, just maybe, women, deep down, want to love and respect a man in his own right, with a strong sense of who he is, what his moral code is, what his boundaries are, and could it be that this is the very essence of what a woman ultimately wants when she says she wants a "real man". However, it is men who must define what a "real man" is, not women and this is the very reason why he exists and why she responds to him

- men are too threatened by a successful woman men are all too aware that women judge men on their occupation, assets and are interested in men of equal or higher status than them, not lower. seems to me that men are being realistic, not intimidated. however these successful women may consider that the higher up the ladder they go, the less men of same or higher status there are. conversely, men of high status (by women's standards) have the largest choice of women available. their only asset he is interested in: feminine beauty - men's ego is their most fragile instrument women's egos are just as fragile. when men put women up on a pedestal their egos inflate like a hot air balloon. however if men are indifferent and make humorous fun of women, they keep coming back for more. - men are so frightened of our rejection that they can't be men actually, they are men just protecting themselves; they're just not taking advantage of being indifferent and making humorous fun of you. - i can't change a man - without getting him ready for the next woman you have no right to change a man, as he has none to change you. if a man allows you to change him, you will not respect him because you can control him. if you cannot change a man, well....maybe you were attracted to his strong sense of individualism in the first place??????? oh, and do you think that the next woman wants your wussie "changed man" after you have chewed him and spat him out??????? - men want to cohabitate with us but don't want to marry us men don't want to make the ultimate commitment to you. maybe they are not sure you are marriage material. maybe there is something you could do to change that. maybe it is not our problem....but yours. - when i take the initiative men back off could be many reasons why, but is probably just a bit of what men routinely face in the dating game....rejection. - men won't listen men do listen, they do not listen and respond in the way your girlfriends do. we are not women, we are men. if you get a chance to observe two or more men interacting with each other, you might learn something. - men can't get in touch with their feelings men are very in touch with their feelings. in fact men do not have to express their feelings all the time to others to validate them. when observing men interacting, you will notice when a man expresses his "feelings" to another, the respondent will reply with a solution to the problem, that's what negative feelings are to a man, a problem to be solved. women... well i'm a man and i'm not supposed to understand their complexities but heres a guess: feelings are drama and entertainment, like a soap opera, they are analyzed and expound upon until another dramatic feeling comes along. unfortunately if a man expresses his feelings to a woman too much, he will be accused of being a wuss, damned if ya do, damned if ya don't, eh. - 50% of men already in relationships cheat and what percentages of women cheat? are there a small group of extremely promiscuous women out there tempting these men or are you women going to take some of the responsibility for this problem? - after he says "your special" i never see him again what, was this before or after you'd had sex? actions speak louder than words. women have a version of this to let men know they are not interested in going further: "lets just be friends" - men have so few friends in comparison to what, women? do you want us to be like you or something? you could add us to your girly friends list when we do! - "girly" magazines are so big with men cleo, cosmo, romance novels, soap operas etc get your juices going too! do i have to say it again....do you want us to be like you or something? - men can't ask for help ....wheres that dependant wuss boyfriend of yours when you need him to fix the car.... men like a challenge and will try to do it on their own, before getting help if they need to. stop trying to negate a positive masculine trait that you occasionally find annoying, when mostly....you love it, eh. ....he's asking the sexy, masculine neighbor for help. - men spend too much time watching sports even when they say they want more time with their families what is "time with their families" anyway? what women want to do? what is too much sports? 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 hour, 30 minutes a day, or the big game on saturday? how about women watch to much soap operas, dr phil, oprah, spend too much time on the phone gossiping etc etc etc. maybe watching sports with their sons could be "time with family? maybe men work more hours than women and so have less "time with family" as long as he doesn't annoy you when you are gossiping to your friends on the phone, you could stop nagging him when he is watching sports. - men can't let a friendship develop and then if sex happens, it happens because men know if a woman classifies him as a friend, it'll never happen!.........and i'm a male explaining female behaviour to a female haha! - when i'm with a man i see his open and vulnerable parts. and then when he gets around other men, he closes them off. that is because you have accepted him as a masculine man and for your relationship to develop he shows his softer side to you. unless he is gay, he has no need to show this to other men. what advantage could he possibly get from showing his vulnerable side to other men? from other men is how he shaped his masculinity, of which you were attracted to first place. if he showed his vulnerability to everyone and their dog, he would not be valued as a man, not even by you....men do on occasion, show their vulnerable side to select men they trust, but is only to fix a problem and find a solution, otherwise there is no reason to do so. this is something that you are not privy to because it is male territory and frankly, as a woman is not your concern. - men are so preoccupied with their jobs even when they're losing contact with their family men are the providers and don't bother with feminist doctrine about equality. if a man does not have an income or assets, he is not valued by society. they are so preoccupied with their jobs because of their family!!!!!!!!!!!! - men are like little boys underneath we all have an "inner child" eh? - men contempt for women on one hand (witness their jokes) and put them on a pedestal on the other hand some men put women on a pedestal and others have a healthy humorous indifference about women. nice guy or seducer, which one gets your juices flowing? - men are "just desserts" but i'm willing to give up so much for a little banana split so what did you have for your main course? maybe you just prefer shopping to men? is it your self-respect that you are so willing to give up? you must make very silly choices when it comes to men. however if you do not want to take responsibility for your choice in men, repeat ten times: men are all bastards! - men rape yes and we are all capable of it, though few take advantage of it. however women can and do, with no evidence, accuse men of rape, their careers, reputation gone and their personal life in tatters, even before the false allegation gets to court. - men are just interested in conquest - that's the real excitement for men is this not how we came to live in the standard we now live in? men like a challenge and men built buildings, infrastructure, government, sciences, inventions etc etc etc. is this a criticism or are you giving us a compliment! - men always feel they have to promise love even when they're not in love do you require they say they love you before you will sleep with them? all men want to ****; some men will say they love you in the hope of getting a ****, even when they don't. honest men will tell you they want to ****. - women earn only 59% of what a men earns even when their contribution is "indispensable" ***, more feminist doctrine. when women have children, they either don't work or work less than men in paid employment. women also choose to work in occupations that don't pay as well. this is why women earn less than men, because men are supporting them. think about this, a man and a woman in a job interview with the same experience and qualifications as each other, the man will cost the employer 41 percent more to employ....no employer would ever hire a man! - men have power and they don't want to give it up more feminist propaganda. a small minority of men has the power; most men have no option but to shovel the **** to feed their families. - men can't admit it when they're wrong and some women have this stubborn habit too. - i'm an attractive woman. i have lots of options. yet so many men i end up with are insensitive. so, the more attractive a woman is, the more she requires sensitivity in men? i thought they left the wussies for the ugly girls with no options... - my father criticized me too often my mother criticized me too often. i think she saw things in a different way because she was female and i was male....maybe you could have a think about that. - men are so paranoid about homosexuality are you attracted to homosexual (and i'm not referring to your fantasy of being so sexy that you manage to seduce a gay man straight) effeminate men? - i'd like to be able to get lovey-dovey without it necessarily leading to intercourse, but that's too much to ask from a man i'd like to have intercourse with a woman without it leading to getting lovey-dovey, but that's too much to ask from a woman. - when i meet a man i often think he's wonderful--i tell all my women friends and i'm elated; then he disappoints me once, then twice. before i know it i think he's a jerk. yet i'm still tempted to stay with him. well, if he had disappointed you by not disappointing you, he would have been such a "nice guy" that you would have just wanted to "be friends". - male leaders get into too many wars (it would be different if a women led) "in response to the invasion, the british government under prime minister margaret thatcher declares a war zone for 200 miles (320 km) around the falklands, assembles a naval task force with which to retake the islands, and launches long range air attacks from the mid-atlantic ascension island on the airfield in port stanley to disrupt the flow of supplies to the argentine forces. from start to finish, this strange undeclared war lasted 72 days, claimed about 1000 casualties, and had a cost of at least 2 billion dollars. from a political point of view, it secured the reelection of margaret thatcher". source:http://www.ability.org.uk/falklands-war.html - men who aren't macho are often.. well....wimps if we are aloof and indifferent, you complain we aren't open enough. if we get all open and touchy feely, you complain we are acting like wimps. as women try to compete with men, men should poke fun at them. when women realize they can never compete, men will throw women a bit of sensitivity....when they've earned it. as for wussies or wimps, they just need to unlearn all the feminazi propaganda that has deeply infiltrated western society. - men are afraid of commitment men are less likely to commit if women continue to give away what men want willy-nilly. we thought you preferred wild anonymous sex too! if they do commit they are afraid that the woman will separate, taking the kids, assets, and a percentage of his income until the kids are adults....now what are the advantages of commitment for a man then, eh? - if i could wish anything from my relationship with a man, it would be to have more honesty what, you want him to be more honest than you are with him? - there are no men who are sensitive and strong--who are not already taken up i think maybe you have climbed far too high up corporate ladder. remember women "marry up" and men "marry down" there are many men who are far stronger than their bank balances but you are not interested in them, eh? - men and women are so against each other its good you're taking some responsibility. - men can't see the forest for their ego's women can't see the forest for their sense of entitlement. women have a sense of entitlement because they think they are a special gender. women think they are a special gender because their egos have become much too inflated, eh.

nothing.....unless you are assumed to be a gay male nurse or a lesbian cop and you are straight :) yes it has nothing to do with men taking over a female dominated field, and everything to do with peoples perception. heterosexual men are attracted to feminine women and heterosexual women are attracted to masculine men. because of peoples perceptions of male nurses or female cops they will hopefully have some redeeming masculine/feminine traits to offset the assumed stereotypes of their professions if they are straight. if not will dating and relationships outside of nursing or policing be more difficult?

parenthetical, i just learned a new word. thanks mate, great minds think alike women can look, act, work to a certain degree in a masculinized manner, setting and it be deemed acceptable. if a man even hints to look, act, work in a feminized manner or setting, his masculinity will be questioned or to get all academic, he will be committing a social more (learned this word in bloody socigenderisasocialconstructology at nursing school). to answer on the possible reasons why this is so, could become very unpolitically correct……so i won’t, eh:argue:

absolutely, you hit the nail on the head. male nurses (if i hadn’t discriminated "male nurse" it would be assumed i meant nurses in general and my point will not be accurately made, eh) tend to gravitate towards icu, trauma etc, more technical, high adrenalin nursing and without the stigmatizing title nurse, many young and older men may consider a career in this great profession. working in these areas of healthcare with a more gender-neutral name (could you get less gender neutral than nursing!!!!!) could maybe even bring some kudos to (insert new title here) as a male. if calling a female police officer a "female police officer" is misogyny, then calling a male nurse a "male nurse" is misandry!. pc gone waaaaay toooo far, i think. respect to all my fellow student nursing brothers, theres not many of us. we got to support each other amongst the vast majority. :biere:

i think sometimes people may even be conscious of how they feel, but choose to say the politically correct, socially acceptable dialog. i'd be surprised if at least some women have less interest in male nurses, at least on face value saying " you are such a great guy being a nurse " or whatever and maybe they think it is, but it takes more than just a great guy to interest a woman. i'd say that it is the same position of meeting anyone new, male or female, they show you who they are, you show them who you are, except you have a stereotype of being a male nurse to disprove as well (unless you are gay and/or have a less masculine nature and there's nothing wrong with being so either! :nuke: ). what about patients etc asking if we are married or have kids or a girlfriend. maybe their just making conversation, though it feels like they are fishing for information to come to a conclusion. actions speak louder than words. confidence and humour have been the key for me to no longer be concerned about "women's interest in male nurses" i origionally posted. women may not be interested in a male nurse unless he proves he is a red blooded, heterosexual man. if he is, he will have no problem doing so if he also holds his occupation in the same esteem as his masculinity some women are not going to be interested in male nurses no matter what and if their priority is lawyers, doctors, ceos etc with more prestigous occupations and money, good on them. ya can't win 'em all eh? of course you could go into funeral directing, now theres a manly occupation that'd impress the girls!

Ditto that!

I think straight to the point posts are great, but posts that elaborate on the subject by one and all really get all angles and a better understanding of the discusion. If people are not going to read the longer posts, they are not interested enough in the subject and are not going to fully understand what is being discussed. Same here as in real time. The fact may be that the straight to the point post could be understood because you and others had already covered much ground on the longer posts:twocents: :cheers:

its a pity it wasn't the other way around, people assuming women in nursing were lesbians and men in nursing were promiscuous! ...oh......er......maybe it wouldn't make any difference, men would still be annoying female nurses and women wouldn't be interested in male nurses they think have nothing else on their minds damned stereotypes, ya can't get away from them:lol2: on a serious note, you are right, nurses are nurses in reality and are a very unique and diverse group. i think it's important for us guys in nursing to talk about this because the stereotype is there and we are a minority. i don't think i have really talked in-depth about this subject before posting this thread. i am very glad i did as i feel a lot of ground has been covered. i don't know about anyone else, but i have gotten alot from this discussion. thanks all for your input.

yeah, exellent point mingez. she may also think you are a great guy for being a nurse, but she feels you are just not her type. she likes docs and stockbroker types. being male, our occupation has traditionally given us status in society and yes women have high status occupations, but how important is occupation to a woman when sizing up a potential partner and how important is it to a man? i have noticed many male nurses marry a nurse also and i know the m/f ratio would have something to do with this. but maybe it is difficult to find a sincere woman outside nursing for these reasons. it could be looked two ways; being a male nurse limits the pool of interested women or is an advantage to finding a genuine woman with an outlook and values similar to our own, whether they are nurses or not. we are not nurses (studying nursing) to fit snuggly into mainstream societies square, though one day we may. we are prepared to tread where many men have not yet the courage and insight to go. (and the pays not bad either!) guys, what would you think of dating or marrying a female doctor. i would hedge a bet that many women mds would be looking to marry another doc or similar status. though if this were a possibility, how would you feel about it?

Well said, if they label you with the stereotype.........NEXT! Welcome to allnurses CDN, its a great place to drop by for an interesting debate eh.