In my area there seems to be a bias against NA's who were trained at schools in the Southeast. They have a reputation of not being well trained, in particular for independent practice.
Schools here in the upper Midwest usually don't require the GRE but do require a lot of high quality ICU experience. They also have a great reputation for training independent practitioners.
Hasn't it been established that NP's are even more saturated then CRNA's though?
I've read that NP/PA are fast becoming saturated. No idea if that's true, but I know we have many more NP's out there than nurse anesthetist's.
There seems to be PLENTY of NP jobs out there. Search USAjobs for NP jobs. I would say that the number of jobs available argues against saturation. On the other hand the relatively low pay being offered argues in favor of saturation so I don't know.
As for CRNA, the CRNA training will, by 2025 be the same length as medical school (3 years). I think that the (sort of) new 3 year medical schools will compete with the 3 year CRNA programs for the best and brightest candidates.
You appear to be an outstanding candidate. I wish everybody would realize that getting into NA school is EASY! The standards are low for getting in. If you apply to 3-5 schools you are sure to get into 3 or 4 of them.
Some of the nurses I see who get accepted I wouldn't trust to take care of a stable DKA patient, much less post op hearts. On the good news side some of the worst nurses who I have seen get accepted didn't make it through.
Don't sweat your previous degree.
Im curious what your opinion is on the field being saturated?
I see no evidence of that at all. I am regularly contacted by head hunters and recruiters. All of the health systems here in the upper mid west seem to always have openings. My students all have jobs long before graduation, in many cases they are being sponsored and have jobs lined up even before starting NA school.
My friends who graduated this year started out at around $140K for those working in the cities and $180K for those working in smaller towns.
Here on Allnurses is the only place I have ever heard it said that the field is becoming saturated.
I like all the bright, ambitious, hard working and intelligent young women I get to work with. I love teaching these bright young ladies coming out of college every year eager to learn and excited for their future.
I also working with the older, experienced and street wise nurses who have been doing this job for years and have a wealth of great advice and tips to offer. I have (and continue to) learn so much from these ladies.
I find that being a male allows me to avoid much of the drama and reduces interpersonal communication barriers that I often see between female nurses. The young nurses are happy to learn from me and the older nurses are happy to teach me.
Oh ok thanks! Guess I will just have to keep my eyes open as I go through school and once I start working in anesthesia. I may consider going to a school somewhere up in the midwest, as most of the schools in the states around me only have clinicals in large metro hospitals operating under ACT practice. There arent any programs in my state, so I will have to move pretty far no matter where I go anyways. I dont know of any crna-only groups in my state, but our law says crnas can practice only under supervision...of a surgeon or dentist (sorry MDAs hehe). Most places Ive seen are operating under ACT, but I know there are small hospitals that do crna only. Only problem is its usually 1-2 providers who work 70+ hours/week including scheduled cases and call.
I only considered programs where all techniques were taught, including all blocks. All 5 of the programs in my area (4 in MN & 1 in WI) offer this.
I usually work about 60 hours a week when I am doing my scheduled cases and 21 hours a week when on call. The difference is that we get paid 100% of the compensation for the anesthesia reimbursement. We don't give half of it away to an MDA who (maybe) sticks his head in once a case and is always there to sign the charting as I observed in the ACT facilities I worked in.
Another key is that our hospital is rural but part of a much bigger health system. The system rotates their specialty surgeons through. We only have two resident general surgeons. For example every other Tuesday is urology cases and we do them all day with the urologist traveling to our hospital to do cases. Without being part of a larger health system we would not have the volume we do.
If you are qualified NA school is very easy to get into. Pretty much everyone I know who wanted to got in. Good GPA, 3.0 or better, a degree, and 2-3 years of high quality ICU experience should do it.
I love my job. All of my CRNA friends like anesthesia and are very happy they did it. It does have it's own brand of suck, but much less so than staff nursing.
Thank you all for your input! I plan on shadowing some CRNA's before making a decision, but it wont be anytime soon. I would like to get some ICU experience first and then re-evaluate the situation (I'm talkin 4+ years of experience).
Did you need to take any other additional classes for the CRNA program or does it depend on the school? The ones I have looked at I couldnt find any, just a BSN and a gpa at 3.0 or above.
ICU experience is mandatory for CRNA.
My school required basic chemistry within 5 years. I took it at a local community college. I also STRONGLY recommend you take a basic physics class. I struggled with it and almost didn't make it through.
Hey, IndiCRNA, I have read a lot of your posts and am really inspired by where you are in your career. Id like to be exactly where you are in about 4 years (only in a rural part of my own home state here down south.) Honestly, I dont even care if I make as much as you, I'd just love to be a member/co-owner of an anesthesia group that covers rural facilities.
May I ask, how did you come across the anesthesia group that you work with/own part of?
Do you have any advice for someone who would like to do the same thing?
When I go to anesthesia school, how would I find groups like that?
Also, if I was unable to work with a group, do you have any advice on how to find a position in a rural hospital that doesnt require you to be on call every day and night of your life?
Again, props to you, I would like to be doing the same thing as you in a few years. I really want something with a good work/life balance where I could do farm work on my days off.
And in respect for this thread, I ask that people please stay focused on the OP's main topic and dont be distracted by my questions. My opinion is that it depends on where you want to work. If you want to be a crna and are willing to relocate anywhere to do it, you will always have a job. Some states are oversaturated due to a large number of schools, others have no schools and therefore quite a few open jobs.
Farm work on your days off? LOL! I find if funny because that is what I do too.
I don't know much about the south east except that it is a terrible place to be a nurse. I don't have any idea if they even have CRNA owned practices there.
Right out of school I went to work for a large health system here in Wisconsin in their main flagship hospital. I started hearing about locums opportunities locally and started working them. Mostly these were in the smaller hospitals in the same health system and in other systems in the state. This lead to me meeting another CRNA who we also doing locums and who was 1/3 owner of the practice I now work with. She asked if I would be willing to cover them for 3 months of her maternity leave. I agreed even though it meant I had to give up my full time job. They liked me and hired me after the 3 months was over. I was told one of the partners was retiring soon and that I could fill his position as an employee and after a year buy into the practice. That is exactly what I did.
They had already tried a couple other CRNAs who didn't work out because they were not comfortable being 100% on their own, but they were all trained in the south, not the Midwest like me. I did a lot of rotations in rural hospitals in school.
So I guess that the answer to your question is that it was all word of mouth.
OP you sound like a real go-getter who will have great success regardless of what you choose to do. Good job and thank you for posting your story so that others may learn and benefit.
That's not true where I live. I also live in a saturated market, but the hospitals that are the most sought after around here are also coincidentally magnet (University of Pennsylvania, Cooper, Jefferson, etc) and are notoriously great places to work. Not sure where the OP lives but I definitely wouldn't automatically correlate job offers to magnet status.
I heard from a friend who is in clinicals there that U Penn wasn't going to seek recertification. Have you heard that too?
FYI no surprise about the Magnet hospital. In my area they are the easiest hospitals to get hired into since they have the poorest working conditions and highest staff turn over.
I will second this. When I hear "Magnet" I write that hospital off as a potential employer. Among my friends and colleagues, all experienced ICU & ER nurses, many of whom have now gone on to CRNA school, Magnet = crappy place to work.
There are approximately 40K CRNAs, and the vast majority of those have at least a Masters degree.
There are approximately 25% of CRNAs that still identify themselves as only having a diploma or Bachelor degree as their highest degree, but there is no indication if these CRNAs are still actively working or just maintaining their AANA membership.
When I was in NA school one of my clinical preceptors was a super sharp older gentleman who had been a CRNA since the early 70's. He didn't have a degree in anything. He had a diploma RN and was trained in an 18 month long hospital based certificate anesthesia program. He was a fantastic provider and was the "go-to-guy" for tough cases for both MDA residents and CRNAs. All of the MDA residents learned their open heart cases from him. He also was an instructor in the Physicians Advanced Airway Management course required for solo ER providers.
He read constantly and had plans on working, at least part time, into his 70's. Also a heck of a nice man who loved to teach.
To the OP. Remember that anesthesia was a NURSING specialty long before it was a physician specialty. The first MDAs had to be taught by early CRNAs. Never pay any attention to anything said on studentdoc.net.
I can't really tell you how MDAs treat CRNAs. If one ever shows up around here I will let you know.
CRNA pay is closely tied to the region and population of the place you work i.e. the lower population and the more rural the place the more likely the pay is going to be higher.
The average CRNA total monetary compensation reported by the AANA for 2013 was 170K. The average base salary was 150K with the rest being bonuses, call pay, overtime, part-time work etc. making the difference between 150K to 170K.
The 25th percentile for CRNA base pay was 134K, so IMO if you are not offered at least that much you should be negotiating a higher base salary or looking somewhere else.
These annual compensation and salary summaries from the AANA are there to help members negotiate their salaries, and for CRNAs to know what is fair and equitable salary in the current job market.
I just wanted to point out that for those who have the skills and confidence, and who are willing to work in a rural, underserved area the compensation can be WAY higher.
We enjoy a fantastic quality of life and live in an area that is the vacation destination for hundreds of thousands. Nice house on a beautiful lake that has great fishing, skiing and other water sports. In addition we have all the toys, including large tracts of forest and fields for hunting. I barrowed a little over $100K to support myself through NA school. Now three years to the month after graduation I have TWO payments left. Best of all I have two weeks out of 6 off. That's right, after every month of work I get two weeks off. That's not a month of working 24/7. It's two weeks of Monday-Friday scheduled cases, usually finishing work every day by 3PM and no call, followed by two weeks of no scheduled cases but being on call 24/7 (average 21 hours of work a week when on call). $300K +/year is more than possible.
I made $119K plus benefits in my last full year as an ICU RN with only doing limited OT, usually just one OT shift a month. No way I would do anesthesia for that kind of money. But then I am a country boy and love rural living.
In my area there seems to be a bias against NA's who were trained at schools in the Southeast. They have a reputation of not being well trained, in particular for independent practice.
Schools here in the upper Midwest usually don't require the GRE but do require a lot of high quality ICU experience. They also have a great reputation for training independent practitioners.
As for CRNA, the CRNA training will, by 2025 be the same length as medical school (3 years). I think that the (sort of) new 3 year medical schools will compete with the 3 year CRNA programs for the best and brightest candidates.
You appear to be an outstanding candidate. I wish everybody would realize that getting into NA school is EASY! The standards are low for getting in. If you apply to 3-5 schools you are sure to get into 3 or 4 of them.
Some of the nurses I see who get accepted I wouldn't trust to take care of a stable DKA patient, much less post op hearts. On the good news side some of the worst nurses who I have seen get accepted didn't make it through.
Don't sweat your previous degree.
My friends who graduated this year started out at around $140K for those working in the cities and $180K for those working in smaller towns.
Here on Allnurses is the only place I have ever heard it said that the field is becoming saturated.
I like all the bright, ambitious, hard working and intelligent young women I get to work with. I love teaching these bright young ladies coming out of college every year eager to learn and excited for their future.
I also working with the older, experienced and street wise nurses who have been doing this job for years and have a wealth of great advice and tips to offer. I have (and continue to) learn so much from these ladies.
I find that being a male allows me to avoid much of the drama and reduces interpersonal communication barriers that I often see between female nurses. The young nurses are happy to learn from me and the older nurses are happy to teach me.
I usually work about 60 hours a week when I am doing my scheduled cases and 21 hours a week when on call. The difference is that we get paid 100% of the compensation for the anesthesia reimbursement. We don't give half of it away to an MDA who (maybe) sticks his head in once a case and is always there to sign the charting as I observed in the ACT facilities I worked in.
Another key is that our hospital is rural but part of a much bigger health system. The system rotates their specialty surgeons through. We only have two resident general surgeons. For example every other Tuesday is urology cases and we do them all day with the urologist traveling to our hospital to do cases. Without being part of a larger health system we would not have the volume we do.
If you are qualified NA school is very easy to get into. Pretty much everyone I know who wanted to got in. Good GPA, 3.0 or better, a degree, and 2-3 years of high quality ICU experience should do it.
I love my job. All of my CRNA friends like anesthesia and are very happy they did it. It does have it's own brand of suck, but much less so than staff nursing.
ICU experience is mandatory for CRNA.
My school required basic chemistry within 5 years. I took it at a local community college. I also STRONGLY recommend you take a basic physics class. I struggled with it and almost didn't make it through.
I don't know much about the south east except that it is a terrible place to be a nurse. I don't have any idea if they even have CRNA owned practices there.
Right out of school I went to work for a large health system here in Wisconsin in their main flagship hospital. I started hearing about locums opportunities locally and started working them. Mostly these were in the smaller hospitals in the same health system and in other systems in the state. This lead to me meeting another CRNA who we also doing locums and who was 1/3 owner of the practice I now work with. She asked if I would be willing to cover them for 3 months of her maternity leave. I agreed even though it meant I had to give up my full time job. They liked me and hired me after the 3 months was over. I was told one of the partners was retiring soon and that I could fill his position as an employee and after a year buy into the practice. That is exactly what I did.
They had already tried a couple other CRNAs who didn't work out because they were not comfortable being 100% on their own, but they were all trained in the south, not the Midwest like me. I did a lot of rotations in rural hospitals in school.
So I guess that the answer to your question is that it was all word of mouth.
OP you sound like a real go-getter who will have great success regardless of what you choose to do. Good job and thank you for posting your story so that others may learn and benefit.
He read constantly and had plans on working, at least part time, into his 70's. Also a heck of a nice man who loved to teach.
To the OP. Remember that anesthesia was a NURSING specialty long before it was a physician specialty. The first MDAs had to be taught by early CRNAs. Never pay any attention to anything said on studentdoc.net.
I can't really tell you how MDAs treat CRNAs. If one ever shows up around here I will let you know.
We enjoy a fantastic quality of life and live in an area that is the vacation destination for hundreds of thousands. Nice house on a beautiful lake that has great fishing, skiing and other water sports. In addition we have all the toys, including large tracts of forest and fields for hunting. I barrowed a little over $100K to support myself through NA school. Now three years to the month after graduation I have TWO payments left. Best of all I have two weeks out of 6 off. That's right, after every month of work I get two weeks off. That's not a month of working 24/7. It's two weeks of Monday-Friday scheduled cases, usually finishing work every day by 3PM and no call, followed by two weeks of no scheduled cases but being on call 24/7 (average 21 hours of work a week when on call). $300K +/year is more than possible.
I made $119K plus benefits in my last full year as an ICU RN with only doing limited OT, usually just one OT shift a month. No way I would do anesthesia for that kind of money. But then I am a country boy and love rural living.