NB19938 1,609 Views
Joined: Jul 18, '12;
Posts: 6 (67% Liked)
; Likes: 14
No. I jut don't get why she isn't "allowed" to read any earlier posts.
She's no longer allowed to read anything you've stated earlier. This is not an open book test.
Having a memory longer than your arm = studying someone? Who knew?!
Wow, I'm surprised by those who are taking this so personally. The OP wrote about what is happening at her own workplace; not a generalization about all young new grads. I bet if some of you print this thread out and read it in a few years, first you'll be embarrassed and then you'll laugh at yourself. I know I said/did some pretty stupid things when I first started working as a nurse that make me blush now.
Drop it soldier...seriously.
Drop what? Honest question. Didn't know you could get into trouble for referencing a topic when you yourself "opened a can of worms".
When I said experience doesn't matter I meant LIFE experience. It doesn't matter to me the struggles you've had in life or the other jobs you've had.
New grads are smart, fresh,eager to learn and more accepting of change. We had a huge exit of staff because they hated the change. This opened up doors for us newbies.
And yes when I'm 50 years old the same thing is probably going to happen to me. I'm going to hate it and ill be jealous over the 20 year olds getting hired. But ill remember I was there once too. The hospitals do not care "that it isn't fair to you." Yes it sucks and I'm sorry about that. But nursing is a competative world. We all had to fight for our spots in school and we will fight for our jobs. We stared out with 250 students declared nursing the first year. 97 got accepted and 77 graduated. 250 from 77. Clearly if I can make it through that I have something to offer. Yes I have brains, but I also bring other things with me. My coworkers I think were a little threatened by me at first. But once they stopped judging me on my looks, my age, my size then they saw WHY the hospital hired me (other thn the fact that I get paid half what they so).
You guys are the ones being so judgemental. There is nothing wrong with being young and taking care of yourself. I am slim, but it is because I take care of myself. I take pride in my looks/hygiene. On top of that I take pride in my success, my job. And I am good at what I do. I LOVE hearing stories from my older nurses of how hospitals used to run. But that doesn't make her better than me.
And to go back to what the OP said. I've never once had a patient ask for a "cute nurse only." I've had them ask for only females but that is generally in good reason.
After considering my original reply, I thought I should just remain quiet. My old, tired, fat experienced self who is not worth the extra that I am paid is dominating as the voice of reason and I need to restrain myself better in the future.
I just read the OP's article for the third time. I just can't help but wonder if some of the replies indicate they either haven't read, or haven't comprehended what she was saying.
" All I'm saying is we deserve the same respect you guys think you deserve."
Jenni811, you seem smart, driven and raring to take up the challenge of being the best nurse in the facility. But don't let your ego and IQ fool you into thinking that you know so much -- experience has a way of catching up to you and informing you as to just how much you do not yet know. From my viewpoint (a couple decades older than you) life has plenty to teach you that you are not even close to being aware of yet. In life, I've seen that being human is just as important a qualification to success (and personal satisfaction) as is academic achievement and climbing the ladder quickly. I have noticed when I was volunteering (as a CNA), as well as in nursing school, that after basic technical skill mastery, being "human" seems to be a critical core component of the RNs that I admire and respect.
One thing does seem to be a bit bothersome: you seem to have not learned that true respect is earned, not given. Do not expect to be given "respect" simply because you demand it by having a good GPA and some certifications. Guess what? I have the GPA and the certs too, and likely more degrees than you - for instance, did you get As in differential and integral calculus, or 2 semesters of organic chemistry? I did. But in light of my ability to do my duty as a nurse, those paper things are relatively meaningless. Think about the real meaning of the "respect" you are demanding: if its given so cheaply (a bunch of paper) and easily (just because you demanded it), then it is probably not of much true value. Let your actions speak for you, not your words. Here your words do you a disservice by making you appear "green" and arrogant. I am not saying you are, just that is what the words convey. Perceptions...
I freely admit have even less nurse experience than you (as well as my mom's 40+ years as an RN). As a matter of fact, I will not even graduate for another year and a half. But I learned how to earn my respect the hard way first, as a soldier. Then getting my second degree (comp sci) while I was in, and working corporate when I got out. (you want ageism? try being in software past your mid 30s, you become basically unhirable in that field once you pass 40). Rather than put up with the tacit but inherent age discrimination in the corporate computer world looming on my horizon, I started my own small tech consultancy and ran it successfully enough to be able to go back to school yet again. This time, my objective was to have my vocation and avocation converged: my "final" career: RN. So what if it took me years to figure it what I wanted to do; call me a slow learner ;-D
So when you see this "old guy" come on board as a newbie nurse, please do not start with your assumption about younger people having computer skills better than "the older" nurses. I could probably design and write the systems you use, and run rings around you using it. Also, stop thinking you are my my "superior" -- because you are not. You are my charge nurse. There is a difference.
Here is a handy Latin saying I learned many years ago in Catholic school, from which you may benefit: "Acta, non verba". It was a hard lesson for me when I enlisted in the Army (at your age) having already earned my first bachelor's degree (giving me the false arrogance that I was "superior" due to certifications and a high GPA). Anyone with life experience will not be overly impressed by academic achievement like GPA and paper awards. This is especially so if they are backed up by only 2 years of real experience, and very little life experience. I learned early as a non-commissioned officer that rank (or office) will be rendered its formal/legal due by others, but the person bearing that rank or filling that office still has to earn the actual respect. When I got promoted, I was told by my experienced 1SG that in the real world, where things can go wrong and people can die, my college and my brand new sergeant's stripes meant 2 things : jack and squat. It was up to me to show (not just pass exams) that I was a capable soldier and a capable leader by my actions.
As an RN (and a student at the moment), I guarantee you this: I do not and will not demand respect from anyone when I'm on the unit. I realize that I am just a student, and even after I graduate, I will be just a newbie. But I expect to eventually have the respect of my peers and supervisors, but only after I have done things to earn it -- and not a moment sooner (and certainly not after only 2 or 3 years on the job!).
We tend to learn best from our mistakes. But life is short, so we don't have enough time to make all the mistakes we need to make in order to learn all we need to know. So take advantage and learn from the mistakes of others. Feel free to benefit from my prior error of ego, and ask yourself "what if I am wrong?" Hubris can being some hard lessons.
" All I'm saying is we deserve the same respect you guys think you deserve."
Overall though, you have to admit that this thread is a hoot.
The generally mentality of superficiality more than suggests that nursing is NOT truly considered or even thinks of itself (at least not widely enough) as a profession.
A person, regardless of his/her age, is the whole person. Again nursing and those in nursing leadership show their hypocrisy. They talk and preach holistic approach--treating the whole person, and yet, lol, they relegate a person to superficial things such as age--something for which no one has any control, and they never will.
A person is not a number such as chronological age. And whatever happened to the current trend of looking at people according to their biological age? People have no idea whatsoever of my age until they see a birth date or a number, or my children--I mean then they can make some inferences, b/c most people don't have kids at ages 5 or 10. If you put too much on your resume with dates, same thing.
Ageism is a joke, anyway, in a day when people are essentially unable to retire.
The real issue for hiring comes down to money--but hiring mostly those without experience also smacks in the face of Magnet, good sense, and an esprit de corps in terms of nursing professinalism, huh? Or does anyone really think that a full undergrad degree in nursing makes the difference without strong, clinical experience? (Somewhat of a failing in terms of the Aiken study--confusing those with BSNs with experience with those BSNs w/o experience.)
Oh the hypocrisy and silly capricious behaviors.
So anyway, I read that teachers up in NY state get free or low-cost plastic surgery as part of thier teacher's union benefits package. Perhaps this is something nurses should start looking to get as a benefit. LOL
Boy this thread really tweaked some folks. LOL
Yet there is something terribly honest about the nature of what OP has shared, and a great many comments that followed. . .it's sad.
It seems that you just can't count on nursing as being viewed (within or without) as a profession.
And last I checked, flight attendants fall under occupation--though I am sure some would debate that. Don't know the pedagogy or their theoretical framework for flight attending though, but whatever.
Next time I go to any physicians, my number one deal will be to make sure they are young, great looking, and cut. I mean isn't that the man thing?
I don't need a nurse who is a new hire who has 10-20 years of experience because they are just as new as i am to that unit. We are learnig the same things and at the same pace.
I have a couple thoughts:
I've never liked the equating of being thin or muscular or physically fit with being shallow or vapid. If anything, I think it should be associated with positive character traits. It requires self discipline, motivation and hard work.
And, yes, of course any facility is in trouble if it doesn't have nurses with a wealth of experience. I don't care how bright and energetic or "up to date" new grads are. Experience trumps all. You don't know what you don't know 'cause you don't know it yet.
Well......this has turned into quite the discussion.
Here's what I think.
I know that once I was 24 years old......bright, energetic, ambitious, intelligent. But I am KIND, patient and respectful. I got laid off at age 49 to find that I could not find a job. I think that being told that after 34 years at the bedside that I was over qualified for positions, not a good fit for the position, not quite what they were looking for....blah, blah, blah.....while all acceptable excuses .....where just that excuses. I was put to pasture so I can't mentor the new nurses coming along...pass on what I know so that the next generation can nurture the next.
It is my belief that is what has lead us to here......bickering back and forth...sniping at one another. Disrespectful and mean spirited. Intolerant to suggestions or change....depending on ones point of view. Young and old alike. experienced and inexperienced.
After 34 years of bedside experience (I stayed there because I love my patients, I always have) in a critical care setting and the emergency room to be told I wasn't qualified for a home based phone triage job is absolute crap. But what can one do? Can you prove it was because of my age? Start your cover letter with.....I'm 50 and I'm desperate....I'll take a pay cut.....somehow sounds pitiful. Sigh......It is what it is. So AN allows me to grace her pages where I spend my time mentoring and teaching those coming into this world because it means I'm trying my small little part to save what I love.....nursing.
I think that those who are 24 years old now will be 50 years old someday and will be right where I am now.....how acceptable will it be then when you are still paying student loans with 2 kids in college to be put to pasture....well..... just because you can't possibly be good enough any more to be at the bedside.....I mean really, you'll be 50 years old right? No where near as good as the new nurse with 2 years experience and hundreds of codes under their belt .....I mean they have multiple certifications...right?
Remember whoever you step on on the way up you will meet on the way down. Karma is some serious energy. YOU will reap what you sow.
While the new grads can't find jobs because there is no one to mentor them. How many time have I heard that there is no mentoring opportunities, that new grads are drowning and over whelmed, that they aren't being mentored...it's because we, the old bats out to pasture, are not there. I am forever in gratitude to all those experienced nurse who nurtured me and taught me.....who turned me into a real nurse from a brash, really smart, snot nosed 18 year old with more "knowledge" than common sense.....more energy and guts, than patience and caution.
What I believe is that one can be bright and beautiful at 24......for that was me. What I knew at 24 is nothing in comparison to what I know now. While I respect every single 24 year old.....there is NO WAY possible for the nurse to be anywhere near as experienced as I, regardless of their hundreds of certifications, in my field of expertise....critical care, emergency medicine, trauma flight. In my 34 years of nursing I can't count the number of codes that I have responded to and participated in.....but even I know that there is always something to learn that can better me as a nurse for my patients. Humility and patience.
I don'/t think commuter was commenting on young nurses....but the motivation behind her employer in the hiring of these nurses. Did this employer look specifically for young pretty intelligent nurses to be an asset to the staff and the patient in a more positive outcome? Or to fulfill some quota or idea that this will lead to better scores to that they have a pretty package but lack content.
I think it is the latter.
All these issues....ADN, BSN, MSN,NP, DNP.....I am not against furthering the education level of nursing. I am against the disrespect of fellow nurses that have the bedside chops to nurse with the degree into a corner. I am against the ADN nurses busting the chops of the BSN for lack of experience.....ALL NEW GRADS HAVE NO EXPERIENCE.
I think we need to listen to each other and be kind to each other......join together in one voice for in one voice we could be quite loud and affect change.
I think we need to be respectful of each other and each other opinion and if we disagree we show our education and emotional maturity but being polite.
I read this and find myself feeling as if I may have been overbearing on occasion. but then as a nursing student and someone who resides with my mother and has helped care for her through her MANY ups and downs, it is easy to start speaking on my loved one's behalf. I forget to shut up and just let my mom talk. Of course I also know my mother who will downplay her pain levels, and then she will wait until she is in near excruciating pain to call for her PRN meds... I have educated my mother on this many times, not only as a daughter but also from the perspective of a student nurse.
That said I applaud the direct approach, just reminding the family that you want to hear what the patient has to say does wonders.
People in society generally focus on the negative gloom and doom, even in the presence of positivity, good news or favorable statistics. In fact, professionals in the field of psychology have coined the term 'negative bias' to describe the trend by which people concentrate more on negative experiences while paying less attention to positive or neutral experiences.
For instance, a highly skilled clinical instructor may generate a small handful of positive references from students when she demonstrates how to start a peripheral IV on a patient during clinical rotations in a local acute care hospital. However, the same instructor will generate negative feedback from almost every student during a particularly stressful clinical shift because she snapped at one of their classmates who had made a mistake. For some reason, the negative stuff quickly becomes a part of our long term memories while the positive stuff is tossed aside.
Or, to flip the coin, an excellent student who usually receives 'A' grades is well-regarded by her professors until, one day, she storms into an instructor's office screaming about a poor test grade. This student has probably done 1,000+ positive things in the two years she has been in the nursing program, but this one negative incident is what faculty members will remember her for.
I have comprised a list of negative myths surrounding the nursing school experience. Although each person's experience is unique, I would say that people routinely overdo the level of difficulty regarding specific tests, exams, skills and proficiencies.
1. Nursing school is the hardest thing in life itself!
In reality, nursing school is not as bad as many people make it out to be. I am cognizant that we all come to the table with different types of academic preparation. For example, the person who took college prep, honors, and advanced placement courses in high school might have a sturdier foundation and better study skills than the individual who dropped out in ninth grade, earned a GED at age 40, and has not attended school in more than 20 years. Even though nursing school involves plenty of reading, acquisition of new skills, multiple tests, and lots of work, I would not say that it is the hardest thing ever.
2. NCLEX is hard!
The statistics indicate that 85 percent of US-educated nurses pass the NCLEX on the first attempt. In other words, four out of five test takers pass NCLEX on their first try. The vast majority of nursing school graduates pass without having to repeatedly take it. Contrary to popular belief, this test is not as difficult as many people would lead you to believe. With good test taking skills, solid preparation, and techniques to reduce test anxiety, the NCLEX is conquerable.
3. Nursing school leads to breakups and divorce.
Some students have split apart from their significant others while in nursing school due to stress that exacerbated an already fragile relationship. In reality, school is not going to lead to separation or divorce if the relationship is strong to begin with. Moreover, if a couple breaks up, one or both parties might unfairly blame the stressors of nursing school when the root cause was something else (infidelity, lack of communication, emotional detachment, unsupportive spouse, et cetera).
As you continue through school, be aware that people have the tendency to place more emphasis on negative incidents. Do your part by placing equal emphasis on positive and equal experiences and, most importantly, do not believe everything you hear. Good luck to you.
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