Latest Comments by TraumaSurfer

First things first, I am a she! Been in EMS since 1998. I am a LICENSED Paramedic. I hold instructor level in ACLS, PALS, BTLS, CPR, PHTLS, and Blood Borne Pathogens HIV/AIDS. I have been teaching RNs for their continuing education hours and recerts for years.
Paramedics have over 1000 hours of classroom time, mine was probably closer to 1300. We have an additional 250-300 hours of clinicals in the hospital setting (including critical care). Then we have, at the very least, 500 hours of unpaid internship on the ambulance before we can take our boards. and, don't forget that you have to be an EMT-B first so let's not forget about those hours, because they do count.
I am currently in college bridging to RN only to pursue FNP. I do not have to complete any clinicals or labs (as well as some other classes, including pharm) because I am a Paramedic and I have already had them. I am learning the same A&P and micro that I already learned before, and if it weren't for the five year rule I wouldn't even have to take them again.

As far as us managing a critical care patient during a hospital to hospital transport, well, that's what we do and we are quite proficient at it! If an RN does go with me (and believe me it's rare) he or she couldn't even touch the meds on my truck if the patient did crash. I would still be the one administering the care. The only difference would be that I would have some extra hands to assist me if needed. We don't even have respiratory techs go with us on vent transfers because we have vents on our trucks and we know how to use them. I used to fly and we carried packed RBCs on the helicopter.

As for transports, we do not refuse to transport people. That is illegal! However, if a consenting adult patient does not want to go to the ER we can't make them even if we have already given D50% in the house, or whatever the case may be. That is called kidnapping according to the law.

As for you, of course I would treat and transport you! And you would receive top notch care! What Brillo said was right on and you completely misquoted me. I once had to treat and transport a man who had just shot and killed his two children and his wife and then ran from the police and managed to jump off a bridge and survive. He had several serious injuries and I treated every one of them like he was anyone else. Similar situations have happened to me over the last 16 years in EMS and I always treat all patients the same.

All in all I really don't care how you feel about our educational needs. What made me so upset is how you talk down to us. That was uncalled for and really is unprofessional. However, I do personally apologize for the comments I left about you. But' try to lighten up on people and don't be so condescending. You can get a lot more accomplished that way because you will have more people willing to listen.

Finally for the record: I totally respect RNs and anyone else in the medical field for that matter. Just do your job and do it well no mater what title you hold and all will be good! Let's work together!

Hey guys, back to the topic at hand. Please discuss the RN versus paramedic topic in a new thread. Thanks very much!

This isn't even remotely close to what medic2514 stated! Can you even read? What was said is:


This means that medic2514 isn't saying they'd refuse service -- just that they doubt whether you'd even bother to call 911 given that you have so little respect for the training and expertise of EMTs.

I hope for your patients' sakes that your assessment skills are a heck of a lot better than your reading comprehension skills!

I imagine that since it is likely that the RNs who make policy at the ANA and AACN had to take on student loan debt they will want everyone else to as well. Hardly fair that some people have to spend $60K for a BSN at a university and some people only have to spend $10K and both have the same job and get paid the same.

Dear Administrator,

I used to really enjoy this site, but after reading all of the unprofessional posts made by "TraumaSurfer" I most definitely will not be returning allnurses.
TraumaSurfer...... you may want to look into a hobby to release all of that miserable energy you have inside (besides this site). The word "bully" actually came to mind while reading your comments. I bet you don't have a lot of friends.
CowboyMedic....... KEEP SAVING LIVES !! What you do is important and I know that people are walking around today who would have been dead if not for your interventions. Maybe, since TraumaSurfer hates EMS so much, he won't call 911 when his life is on the line......but then again, I bet he will. His tune will change if that day ever comes.

TramaSurfer, my comment on ACLS/PALS was referring to our new grad NURSES that are hired into the ER not PARAMEDICS. Every Paramedic that is hired into our ER already has ACLS/PALS. .

Most paramedics that are coming onto the street now are at the college associate degree level. Even thought I graduated from a Tech school for my paramedic I believe I have the same knowledge as them, I just don't have a degree. .

But I am currently bridging to RN. And let me tell you that the ADVANCED CLASSES for Pharm and A&P that you went on about, I'm currently taking A&P and Pharm, are the same exact materials that I've already covered in my paramedic course. .

If there is anyone being HIGH AND MIGHTY that is you. You are saying that paramedics should not be out there because the tech shcools are easy. No they are not, we had a 50% attrition rate (due to grades, if you couldn't handle it you were gone) at our school which is probably higher than any nursing school in the country. .

My last comment on this is going to be. The level of training that I got, the number of hours that I spent in clinicals, and the different areas that I spent in clinicals prepared me to be ready from day one when I stepped on the truck. And I don't have just 4 years experience, I will have 6 in July but apparently unless you have 30 years like you everyone else is stupid according to you.

But do you believe someone just out of school is better than your 30+ years of training and experience because they hold a higher certificate?

Trust me as a paramedic that has worked in EMS for 4+ years .

But do you believe someone just out of school is better than your 30+ years of training and experience because they hold a higher certificate?

You were putting down "most " paramedics by 'hear say per conferences and talking to others and reading magazines yet I you dont give any specific referenced non biased statistics regarding such instances of transfers being refused or lack of care d /t that medics opinions of them.

And if your such a believer of another countries policies for training maybe you should practice there.
Everyone has an opinion and I was simply asking for clarification of yours to try and understand it better- you don't teach someone or try to make a difference by putting that person down and accusing them of living under a rock .and for the record anyone that does a procedure or gives a med and doesn't understand the 'why' behind it- has no business in the medical profession.

I believe my course was around 1100-1200 hours. So around 700 in classroom, learning what we needed for the field with everything from A&P, Pharm, Cardiology, Respiratory, Assessment skills, etc. Along with ACLS and PALS before we could test for our National Registry. Our new grads that are hired into the ER don't even have ACLS. If you want to talk about scary, it's that. Your working codes without certifications..

Your right I didn't spend massive amounts of time in one area, that is because we have to be able to handle anything that comes up in the field. But there were two areas that were the majority of our clinicals hours and that was ER and EMS ride alongs. During the EMS ride alongs we had to have so many calls were we where running the calls with the paramedic assisting us and only stepping in if we messed up or something was over our heads at the time.

You might have missed how I had spent clinicals hours in the ICU, or were you too lazy to read that? I live in Oklahoma and we have two major trauma centers. One in Oklahoma City and one in Tulsa. The major hospitals are in OKC and Tulsa. Sometimes you have two to fours hour transfers if you were coming from a small level four hospital that needed to get someone to a level I or level II and medievac was not flying that day to bad weather.

Ok now your starting to tick me off by saying that my transports were EMTALA violations. You think that we are not properly trained. You are DEAD WRONG. We are signed off on everything we do by our medical directors which are the same MD's and DO's that are giving you your orders in the ER. They trust us to use our ASSESSMENT SKILLS and DECISION MAKING to determine what needs to be done on our calls. But I don't want to this to be an EMS vs Nursing battle. I'm just defending my brothers and sisters who you are basically calling stupid monkeys who can barely think for themselves.

And by the way, I WAS NOT BRAGGING about anything. I was stating what kind of calls that paramedics are doing every single day. Also you mention that an RN or RT could ride along. I don't know many hospitals that would spare an RN or RT for a transfer. The only time that I have had an RN or RT with me was during NICU transfers where we went to get the pt from an outlying facility and transported them back to Tulsa.

Six to eight months of training for a paramedic? I spent two years training to be a paramedic. The same amount of time most nurses spend for their ADN (not counting pre-reqs). I spent about 4-6 months getting my EMT-B, then another 18 months getting my EMT-P. I had over 500 hrs of clinicals (for paramedic) between Lab for iv sticks and blood draw, OR for intubations, ICU for cardiac and pharm, OB for L&D, ER for just about everything else, psych, dialysis, then my ems clinicals on the truck.

I can not speak for a system that has both BLS and ALS trucks, because I have always worked for an ALS system. We never responded to a call that BLS was sent out on then called for backup, it was always our calls. There were so many times that I wanted to say, "hey you don't need to go to the hospital for this, because this is complete bs." But guess what, we still had to transport. I knew when I was getting into ems that not every call would be a code or trauma. I also spent my first year or two busting my butt in a transfer station. Yes I have had some very sick patients. Multiple patients on vents, on propofol drips, on cardizem drips, blood hanging. You name it and I have probably transported it. And i'm not talking about short 15-20 minute trips, even though I've had those. I'm talking about two to four hour transfers where your the only one keeping those patients alive to get to a higher level of care than the previous hospital.

I'm curious where your information comes from pertaining to most paramedics transport for convenience and using their emotions to dictate transfer? You say "most" can you define that more?
Also in the video- the patient was not an emergency AFTER they gave the narcan- he was alert- talking and aware of his medications all three if those lead me to believe he was stable. If a basic Emt were to show up to that scene they would of scooped and gone no meds could b given- that patient could of been in respiratory distress,cardiac distress or already dead before arriving to the hospital. I don't believe a paramedic can claim they are a mid level practitioner they are trained to quickly assess life threatening injuries- treat appropriately and transport. A paramedic is a paramedic their scope of practice is the same in the US.
-Y do they need so many to show up? Because not all situation are for one to two paramedics. You have to take into account- lifting the patient- starting an iv- ekgs- airway support and sometimes dealing w family, the police can not always b on scene for that. I for one would feel better knowing I had to many on scene than not enough and wait for extra hands that may delay care. I'm not saying the EMS system is perfect and I'm sure there are many flaws however just like in the ED we can not just refuse caring for a patient because they r frequent flyers.I'm also curious what does a masters degree help with? You still are under the direction of a medical director and can only do so much before arriving at the hospital. A masters degree may give you more knowledge as to disease processes that you read in a book- hands on experience is sometimes more valuable. I guess I have never worked w a crew that felt they were 'to good' or 'overqualified' to go on a call.

No need to take offense, I was just putting my personal experience/plan on the table. I have already been promised a job by the clinical manager in the ED in which I work (don't start the program until May) and I have a BAS already so I will have no issue. I understand, however, that not everyone is in this situation.