Content That Angeljho Likes

Angeljho, MSN, RN, NP 7,179 Views

Joined: Oct 2, '09; Posts: 393 (67% Liked) ; Likes: 1,204

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  • Jun 17 '15

    they are looking to make the most money...

  • Jun 17 '15

    It seems they didn't look over your records to decide your coursework before you started. I can see where you may need to take clinical related classes (patho, pharm, health assessment) if you didn't already but to take the theory and research again?? As PP's have said I'd look elsewhere.

  • Jun 17 '15

    I would find another program.

  • Jun 17 '15
  • May 27 '15

    Quote from anh06005
    There are absolutely exceptions to every rule. It is just tough for me to imagine going through the program and staring farther behind than I already was as a fairly new RN. Now I am curious how the RN thing worked. What did yall do before you took the NCLEX? A down and dirty RN program?? I am not trying to be overly critical...just genuinely curious! How far into the program did you take the NCLEX?
    What do you mean by a "down and dirty" RN program? Our RN portion of the program was the same as any ADN program (I do not have a BSN). We had to have the basic science pre-reqs (A+P, chemistry, micro, etc) finished before we could even apply to the DE program. We all had at least a Bachelors in another discipline, so we didn't have to take any of the Gen Ed courses. We took Health Assessment, Theory, Patho, Pharm, Ethics, Research, etc. and did the same number of clinical hours and synthesis as the undergrad BSN students. We took NCLEX after all of those requirements were completed, just like any other RN student.

    I don't feel like I started "further behind" as an NP because I didn't work as an RN. To be honest, I use very little of what I learned in the RN part of my program. I'm not saying it wasn't valuable and necessary, but most of it isn't relevant to what I do on a daily basis.

  • May 25 '15

    Direct Entry NP here.... At first glance, I can understand how many think you can't be an advanced practice nurse without nursing experience, but in my experience it just isn't that cut and dry. Many factors play into the success (and failure) of students graduating from these programs. My background was 20+ years of laboratory medicine experience before entering my program, so I was not a total health care newbie. My school was a brick and mortar program that accepted less than 10% of those that applied. The students came from a diverse set of backgrounds and experiences, and many of them were so bright that it made my jaw drop. Anything below an 84% was considered an F when it came to grades and clinical evaluations. I have never worked so hard in my life. I did learn patho, pharm, and differential diagnosis. Most of us did more clinical hours than were required in the NP portion, because we wanted to learn and see as much as possible. We were driven and inquisitive. It was not an "easy" way to become an NP, not by any stretch of the imagination. No one failed NCLEX, no one failed their NP boards. Many of us tried to find part time RN jobs once we passed NCLEX, but they were few and far between, so we were not able to get RN experience.

    When job hunting I found that most employers didn't give a hoot about not having any RN experience. They were much more concerned about not having any NP experience. My first job was in primary care in a busy urban community health center. It was pretty much all new grad NPs, PAs, and MDs. We all supported each other and learned from each other. Some NPs had boatloads of RN experience, some had none...and you couldn't tell who was who, according to my medical director. In fact, one of the new NPs with years of RN experience couldn't make the transition from following orders to writing them. She could not gather the confidence to think on her own. All of the DE grads there did very well. Maybe it's cause we felt we had to try harder, but we were all successful and our patients did not suffer. We knew how to think critically, how to assess, how to go through the differential diagnosis process, and most importantly, to ask, research, look up, etc, when we didn't know something. My cohort all found jobs quickly and as far as I know, have done well. So, in my experience, not working as an RN has not hindered me. My patient outcomes are good, my colleagues and superiors give me high marks, and my patients trust my care. I have been precepting for several years and have had stellar DE students, lousy "traditional" NP students, and vice versa. I want to teach students who are bright, inquisitive, and who can think critically and draw logical conclusions. You don't have to have RN experience to do that. RN experience is valuable, but so are many other kinds of life experiences. We don't all need to follow the same path to get to the same destination.

  • May 22 '15

    Quote from newboy

    Also, I too did not know until orientation that I would have to find my own preceptors. I should have done my research.
    I think you hit the nail on the head here.

    I see so many posts of people scrambling to find preceptors and being frustrated that their school didn't provide them. Um....shouldn't they have known that from the start? If it wasn't something they were prepared for- they shouldn't have gone to that school. Before jumping into such a huge commitment- of both time and money- research on the school and the program should be done. (Before even applying, in my opinion!!) Each program should have their required clinical hours posted it shouldn't come as a surprise that they'd need to find multiple preceptors to fill the required hours. And if they didn't think it would be possible to find their own, for whatever reason, they probably should have only applied to programs that arrange them.

  • May 22 '15

    Random thoughts:

    A professional license is a privilege, not a right. No one has the RIGHT to be a registered nurse. There are academic and personal standards that are expected to be met to hold such a license; it's reasonable to wonder if, in fact, they have been upheld in this case.

    "Paying one's debt to Society". Hmmm....well, IMHO, this means that the person has earned back the right to live amongst Society (as opposed to being jailed in a cage) and NOTHING MORE. One cannot "pay back" every debt that has ever gotten a murderer convicted, as the VICTIM cannot be "paid back". Society may allow this person freedom to move amongst us, but this is not the same as having earned a right to every possible freedom there is.

    Some crimes result in the consequence of NOT being able to hold professional licenses, not being allowed to vote locally (depends on the State), not being allowed to participate on a jury, not being allowed to engage in business with the government.

    Are we ready to accept that someone who is deemed unworthy of the privilege of voting in a Federal election (as is the case with those convicted of a Federal crime) somehow IS worthy of holding another person's life in his/her hands--- which is the expectation of an RN?

    Internet anonymity, and privacy in general: Those who are convicted of a sex crime can expect to be on a public registry, and to have their movements tracked. They are not permitted to live within (or even BE within) a certain radius of a school, children's center, etc. There are many reasons one may end up on such a registry, but the fact remains that once someone is convicted of a crime worthy of that list....there they are.

    Are we ready to say that someone convicted of murder (first degree, not manslaughter, nothing 'accidental') is deserving of MORE privacy than someone who has engaged a prostitute? Do we really think that the crime of murder should be made off-limits because someone may RECOGNIZE the murderer?

    I am under no obligation to cease discussion of an individual crime of murder because the MURDERER may be inconvenienced, or have their career harmed. I mean, REALLY?? As for her family, while I can appreciate their predicament, it's not their fault, etc etc.... that doesn't change the fact that I wouldn't want this person to be a licensed RN, PERIOD. SHE brought onto her family whatever comes their way, NOT the people in 'Society' who discuss her crime.

  • May 22 '15

    Like Mr. Chicago, I'm pretty appalled at the tone of this thread in general. I think a lot of people don't realize how VERY VERY PUBLIC this website is. It's quite likely that, as a result of this thread, this woman's coworkers have now realized who she is and are trying to have her fired.

    This thread may have just ruined the lives of an entire family. Possibly more than one family, if the wrong person is fingered. It's the very definition of a witch hunt.

  • May 21 '15

    If it was justified self-defense then the individual would not have been convicted. I don't know how an individual is still permitted to be a nurse after a murder conviction, but they should not be. Regardless of age, or what-if scenario, when you are convicted of murder you should not be permitted to practice as a nurse. Call me old-fashioned, but I would not want a convicted murderer working along side me in the hospital or taking care of me or my family.

  • May 21 '15

    Good for you! I get very tired of the argument that for some reason nurse practitioners desperately need RN experience, but MDs, DOs, and PAs are good to go. No one is saying it isn't beneficial, but RN experience is in no way necessary to be a safe and effective healthcare provider.

  • May 19 '15

    Quote from Chickie77
    My opinion on NP's, from personal experience is that I do not want them treating me or my family!! Every time I have seen one they just seem inept. Recently, and I have no clue why, I went to see my doctor and an NP came in to see me instead. She had not looked at my history and asked me all kinds of questions about my history and care and when we got down to the reason I was there (Thyroid disease and issues with my medication) she completely contradicted what my doctor and I had previously spoke about. Quite frankly, she made me angry and I told my doctor that I didn't want to see this NP again. Ever.
    Again, just my personal opinion, I do NOT want someone diagnosing me or prescribing medications that hasn't gone through medical school and residency.
    I do believe that a great deal can be learned through nursing experience, I know I have learned a great deal in my CNA experience but does that mean my 10 years in LTC makes me an automatically knowledgeable RN? No way! I think the same applies for NP's.

    I think the blame for this lies heavily with the schools. Of course they are trying to get as many people in the door as they can to keep the funds flowing and there are so many schools offering so many options these days I think the actual education has fallen quite short.
    One school I was looking into for my BSN when I finish my RN has students claiming they have finished their Bachelors in 6 months!
    It's a competitive world with competitive people all trying to better themselves and their pay grade but what does it really cost some in the end?

    ETA: I feel like I should explain my experience with NP's. Perhaps the ones I have seen were not experienced enough with patient care and that is why I felt that they were inept?
    So your ONE experience with ONE person is bad and you tar an entire profession with one brush? Do you realize how judgmental and unaware you sound? I've been in nursing for nearly 25 years and I've known some incredible NPs that I would rather have take care of me than most doctors. Mainly because they are smart, have tons of experience, have seen just about everything, have a deep nursing instinct, and they are actually interested in their patients. I've been seen by tons of doctors that only care about writing you a prescription and getting you out of the door so they can make a few more bucks. I know who I'd rather see. The dean of my grad school used to be the NP in the ICU I used to work with and she is one of the smartest most competent practitioners I've ever known. I was so happy when I walked in the door for my interview and saw her because I knew this was a program worth being in. I'm afraid your comment merely reflects how little you know about NPs rather than a valid well thought out response.

  • May 17 '15

    Quote from newboy
    Rich, E.R. (2005). Does RN experience relate to NP clinical skills? The Nurse Practitioner, 30(12), 53-56

    Read this.
    Got it, thanks, although it took me nearly an hour to get into my OVID account, lol. Did you get the article from this message board? Its been posted here more than once.

    I really can't find much out there that directly addresses this topic. This although exactly the kind of information we need was rather luke warm imo. That it was based on a very small self-report by NPs and physicians who have a relationship and invested interest in them being competent so I question the objectivity. If someone asked me if I were competent I'd fill in the circles indicating hell yes as would my boss. I would really like to see an outcomes measure but again heading in the right direction I guess. To be fair I'm not usually a huge fan of nursing research.

    Something interesting to consider regarding the original article was a commentary:

    "In our study, "Improving the Effectiveness of Primary Health Care Delivery through Nurse Practitioner/Family Physician Structured Collaborative Practice"1, qualitative findings stressed the correlation between physician perception of NP competence and the establishment of a relationship with that NP. This finding was also observed in the Ontario Medical Association/Registered Nurses Association of Ontario study2where recognition of expertise was based on personal experience with their NP rather than on a view of all NPs as primary health-care experts. We therefore support the statement that physicians may have been influenced by their personal relationships and also would like to ask if the collaborating physicians in Dr. Rich's study had served as preceptors to the NPs that they were now evaluating?"
    Linda Jones, RN(EC), BSN, CFNP

  • May 15 '15

    Quote from newboy
    Sorry, didn't see this until now. Stony Brook. It's in NY.
    I went to Stony Brook for the Adult-Gero NP program, but back to your basic question, I have met a lot of NPs who said to me their programs made them find their own preceptors and many were in onsite programs. I know schools like Hunter, NYU, Pace and Columbia will place your with preceptors but you have the option of finding your own.

  • May 15 '15

    Quote from newboy
    Oh, come on. You're preaching about RN experience for this, too? I actually have years of inpatient psych experience and still work as an inpatient psych nurse. I know many MDs and I tried networking but there are other variables at play. My school needs to have a contract with any facility I do my preceptorship at; if there is no contract, it can take 6 months to a year to establish one. I wouldn't be here if I didn't try my immediate resources first. It's okay to take a stand about something you feel passionately about, but can you please also look at things more objectively.
    Actually I guess yes I'm "preaching RN experience" for everything. I was simply stating that most cases I hear about don't have their own contacts because they haven't worked as a nurse. Sorry if you didn't like my suggestion or your contacts weren't able to help you. It was only a suggestion and how I did my clinical rotations. If your school takes a while to secure contracts for your chosen preceptors I would have worked that out ahead of time. My school only took a few weeks again sorry about that too.

    And fwiw although you are the OP this was actually was in response to another member's question and going back and reading your original post it sounds like you did have options at facilities with contracts but couldn't find a preceptor.