Content That ProfRN4 Likes

Content That ProfRN4 Likes

ProfRN4 12,753 Views

Joined Apr 5, '03. ProfRN4 is a nursing professor. She has '19' year(s) of experience. Posts: 2,235 (22% Liked) Likes: 1,306

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  • Apr 21

    Quote from Nurse2bJacks
    Hi Science101

    I am going to SPSON today to take the IQ test and hand in my application. It has always been a dream of mine to become a nurse and all these posts scare me about this school but the program seems so flexible and the school has been around for so long how bad could it be? I wanted to know if you got a job as a nurse right after graduation and did you go on for your BSN? And, was this education worth it to you? I know things are hard and I understand people want to take the easy road and this is going to be tough, I attend a cuny school now and it is messy and if you are not on top of it it can turn out bad. I am just super nervous about these posts.
    Not for nothing but the two Saint Paul's schools of nursing have the *lowest* board passing rate of all ADN programs in NYS: 41.8% (Queens) and 43.9% (Staten Island). Even the Swedish Institute managed to eek out 57.5%. http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/nurse/n...xrn2013-17.htm

    Don't want to rain on anyone's parade but those first time passing rates are appalling.

  • Apr 20

    Quote from milesims
    Hello,

    So I'm having a little bit of difficulty understanding this. Why is everybody competitive in nursing?

    We're all getting the same degree, and you don't need high marks to get a Masters and/or NP. I've found that many people like to brag and frequently get upset at other people's accomplishments in nursing (for example, grades).

    I've noticed this more among my peer group when I started my business plan. They doubted me at first, called it stupid, and interrogated me frequently. Now that my business is up and running, they expect me to hire them into my home care agency and I feel like they're waiting for me to fail. Don't get me wrong, I don't brag. I only talk about it in school when I'm asked about the subject or asked what I want to do after graduation. I know it's this stupid competitive vibe that's going around, and I'd really like to understand how to avoid this negativity.

    I'm not talking about all of the students, but it's really becoming a trend.

    Why can't we all just get along?
    Because there are rotten people everywhere who seem to live to make other people miserable and nursing is no different. You'd think, with they type of care we do, that this would be the field with the least amount of those types, but that's not the case. Even when you graduate and start working there are always those few nurses who never seem to talk except to criticize, or seemingly look for ways to bring someone else down. If no one else feels that way about them, then it's probably you, but if you hear the same things from the majority of other people then it's just them and you have to deal with it. You can "avoid" it/them by just keeping your head down and doing your thing to the best of your ability. It gets easier and easier as time goes on, but it won't ever go away completely. I don't hear you expecting your peers to be your personal cheerleader, but it is sad when people can't be nice and be happy for others when they do well. Just do your best, be there to help if they feel like asking for it, and they won't have anything real to "get you" on. xo

  • Apr 20

    Quote from LadyFree28
    Not everyone is a cheerleader to YOUR own dreams.

    I have learned that personal goals are more satisfying to the person achieving the goal.

    An athlete once said "I run my own race; when I run my own race, I NEVER lose.
    Completely agreed and I can see your point.

    I know "cheerleaders" are too much to ask for, although I don't see anything wrong with that. I always praise my friends for accomplishments, and I think if everybody appreciated one another, this world would be a better place.

  • Apr 20

    Quote from milesims
    I agree with absolutely everything ...except for #1.

    I feel that we don't have the right to judge nursing students with children that are late to class... They are probably getting their kids to school, rushing to class, working full-time, and barely making ends meet for all we know. Having one kid is a full-time job in itself.

    I personally know a wonderful student with 3 children. She is frequently late because she has to take her kids to school, but she works very hard and achieves good grades.
    I have 2 children, and balancing my school versus getting them ready for their school was ... interesting. And, yup, there were (and are) a lot of crazy, rushed mornings. Welcome to parenthood. Just because I'm a mom doesn't give me an automatic go-ahead to be late to class. It just means I organize my time -- get things ready the night before (pack lunches, set out clothes, have bags packed and by the door), set alarm wicked early, etc.

    And, no. My husband is not around to help out. I'm on my own.

    It drives me nuts to hear this justification that, because someone has kids, they have the automatic a-ok to be late. No no no no no ... it's part of your responsibility of being a student, and then later being a nurse.

  • Apr 20

    Quote from milesims
    I agree with absolutely everything ...except for #1.

    I feel that we don't have the right to judge nursing students with children that are late to class... They are probably getting their kids to school, rushing to class, working full-time, and barely making ends meet for all we know. Having one kid is a full-time job in itself.

    I personally know a wonderful student with 3 children. She is frequently late because she has to take her kids to school, but she works very hard and achieves good grades.
    When you are the off going nurse and you have to wait 1 to2 hours for you relief to show up, do you honestly think you are still going to feel this way? I seriously doubt it. And I do NOT like to work with others who are late all the time because until they show up, the other nurses and I are responsible for their patients. We have far to much to do to care for our own patients let alone have our assignment increased because of that one nurse who can't be to work on time.

  • Apr 20

    Quote from milesims
    I agree with absolutely everything ...except for #1.

    I feel that we don't have the right to judge nursing students with children that are late to class... They are probably getting their kids to school, rushing to class, working full-time, and barely making ends meet for all we know. Having one kid is a full-time job in itself.

    I personally know a wonderful student with 3 children. She is frequently late because she has to take her kids to school, but she works very hard and achieves good grades.
    That's still not acceptable. Nor is it an excuse. I have 2 kids and work with you no family/friends to help, just my husband, and get to class ON TIME.

    And employer is not going to accept frequent lateness, why should the school. It's disrespectful, and part of being a grown up is figuring out how to solve those kinds of problems.

  • Apr 20

    Hmm - sounds like you've been surrounded by quite a few "special little snowflakes". They are so special that rules don't apply to them - . Don't worry, that herd will be thinned by NCLEX & subsequent real-world work experiences.

    I only wish that there was more of YOUR TYPE to fill all of my organization's new grad residency programs -- since we seem to attract snowflakes.

  • Apr 16

    Quote from Deepinthegame
    I can tell you why- Starts with College/University Professors not being honest with students. Not taking time out and taking the authority hat off and telling it like it is. As a guy that was former military (USMC ) our instructors told the truth - like sometimes help isn't coming and things may/will go BAD ( want to say more but may offend ) . For example , if I was an instructor I would love to explain that depending on where you work , forget most of what we taught you - "Just Survive the shift " and remember ABC's and complain later. Survive ,survive
    I agreed with the school having the responsibility, until just now. I literally just changed my mind about it.

    Is it really up to an educational program to warn students that they're likely not going to be able to practice good nursing? Isn't the student the one who should be researching their career choice? Caveat emptor?

    If I were an instructor I wouldn't compromise my principles because employers may or may not allow for adequate staffing. I would instruct the proper way of everything. I would not instruct subpar or "shortcuts" to accommodate employers' expectations of productivity. That would not be my responsibility.

  • Apr 16

    I think some nurses hate nursing for the same reasons that some educators hate teaching, some pilots hate flying, some secretaries hate "secretarying", some engineer hate engineering.........

  • Apr 14

    Quote from westieluv
    Thanks to all of you for taking the time to reply, I really appreciate your feedback.

    I did receive an email from a dialysis facility of one of the Big Two dialysis companies literally two minutes from my house (I have a year and a half of recent dialysis experience with that same company) and it is a dream schedule: MWF 5:30-5:30 with no weekends. I would jump on this opportunity in a New York minute except that my work ethic tells me that since I committed to the rehab position, I have to try to stay and make it work. This dialysis company was not bad at all to work for, and I regret leaving. If I had it to do over again, I would not have given up my position with them, and now they are contacting me with this position that I could almost walk to!

    It's really hard to commit to the rehab facility after being lied to, that is the problem.
    Wow, think really hard about turning your dream job down. Yes, you committed to the rehab facility but they did not commit to you. Is it worth it?

  • Apr 13

    Quote from elkpark
    I'm an adult, nursing students are adults, and, when I've taught nursing, I've treated the students like adults. Your examples sound like the "everyone gets an award for showing up" approach that people use with small children that many of us feel has contributed to the current sorry situation with so many nursing students. They've spent their whole lives being praised for doing things that are no big deal, nothing special, the basic, minimal expectations for getting through the day. I'm not buying into that.
    If I could like this 1,000 times, I would. This participation-trophy mentality is fostering some really weak individuals. "Congratulations for breathing today!" Nope.

    I am all for the "sandwich method" of feedback, but that requires that both bread and sandwich innards be present.

  • Apr 13

    Quote from milesims
    Gladly.

    I'm a nursing student in Ontario. We literally pay the school $800-$900 a semester to work in a hospital once a week during the semester, and a whole month at the end of the school year full time. Every other program gets paid $17 an hour for co-op, we pay the school for this "learning experience," working as PSWs for the most part. I get to do medications maybe three times a semester (if lucky), any other skills once a semester, and just clean patients up 99% of the time.
    So because the school receives money from you, you are entitled to compliments when not truly deserved?

    And only passing meds a few times in a semester and doing a lot other types of patient care is not uncommon. But you are not working for the hospital or making things easier on them.

    People earn both compliments and criticisms. Lessons can be learned from both.

  • Apr 12

    Quote from milesims
    I can see your point of view and I agree with you. Adults should not expect praise for doing the things that they are expected to do.

    However, what do you do when adults don't want to do these things? These students are paying the school to work in a hospital for free full-time and/or part-time, have lectures to attend to, most likely another job on the side, maybe even kids. Then imagine receiving criticism after going through hell in lectures, exams, and the job on the side that you have that actually pays. I can see their point of view as a nursing student.

    My point is, even adults act appropriately when given positive reinforcement. There are many studies to back this up, and all of them show that positive reinforcement and appreciation = more money for the company, more happiness for the employer, and more happiness to the employees. I did the research because I'm starting my own business.

    I don't see how it could negatively affect the students and the clinical instructor, at all, by giving them this positive reinforcement. However, I can see a multitude of ways it could end badly by punishing them at every turn.

    I think you're imagining a bunch of whiny students who won't do anything if they're not complimented on wiping their own butts. That's not the case, at least most of the time...
    Here's how it could end badly... The student gets a compliment (like they are a child) then decides from that compliment they are excelling at clinicals and don't need to do anything more. Then they stand around even more.

    Another compliment? "Wow! I'm really doing everything right this semester. No need to change any of my behavior." = Continues being useless on the floor.

    They are students, not children. If they don't deserve a compliment, then they shouldn't receive one as some sort of backhanded way to attempt to make them useful during their shift.

  • Apr 12

    Quote from milesims
    And to answer you on how the instructor is supposed to compliment them when they're doing nothing, you have to compliment them when they're doing SOMETHING. This will make them more likely to do SOMETHING. You can say something like, "Good job on finishing all of those vitals early," "Good job on cleaning up the unit when you have nothing to do," or "I really like how you sit down and talk with patients." Now tell me, when you were in nursing school and if an instructor were to tell you these things, what is the likelihood you would do it again? For me, it's 100%.

    I'm not one to judge, and I wouldn't blame you if you have any resentment against nursing students. Most of us just "don't get it." But I'm sure that you were in the same situation in nursing school as well, and I really hope you find the patience and the time to take my advice, even though it's coming from a nursing student.
    I don't see any reason to compliment students for doing something that is a basic expectation of the clinical rotation. I'm an adult, nursing students are adults, and, when I've taught nursing, I've treated the students like adults. Your examples sound like the "everyone gets an award for showing up" approach that people use with small children that many of us feel has contributed to the current sorry situation with so many nursing students. They've spent their whole lives being praised for doing things that are no big deal, nothing special, the basic, minimal expectations for getting through the day. I'm not buying into that.

    I wasn't "in the same situation in nursing school" because neither I nor any of my classmates were ever slacking off in clinical. We were expected, from day one, to find something constructive to do in clinical if we weren't directly involved in the care of our assigned clients, and we did. We were corrected by our instructors if we weren't taking the initiative to stay busy and meet the school's expectations in clinical, and nobody thought there was anything wrong or harmful about that. We didn't get praised by our instructors for meeting the basic expectations of the clinical rotation; we were expected to function at a much higher level than that, and most of us did. I've always found high expectations to be much more energizing and motivating than empty, meaningless "compliments." But maybe that's just me.

  • Apr 12

    Quote from milesims
    You're stuck with them, so please consider this advice FROM A NURSING STUDENT because it will make this whole experience better for you and your students.

    Compliment your students on every little thing that they do right.
    As a nursing student, even one small compliment from a professor will keep me motivated an entire year. Discipline and negative reinforcement, even one occasion, is what drives students to slack, get unmotivated, and even consider quitting nursing. All humans have one thing in common that differentiates us from any other animal, and that is to feel appreciated.

    My reference for this is "Dale Carnegie - How to Influence People and Win Friends." I learned this concept of appreciation, and never fail to appreciate anyone. My life has changed dramatically and I have started my own business while in school. And no, I am not selling this 30 year old book.

    I really hope you don't listen to others in this thread about discipline. It will not help at all to motivate them to do anything.
    Speaking as someone who has taught nursing clinicals in a few different schools over the years, I have a few different thoughts on this.

    First, I agree about positive reinforcement, and have always made a point of providing positive feedback to students at nearly every opportunity. The students I have had would always freak out the first time they got paperwork back covered with notes from me, until they read through it and realized that at least half of my notes were positive feedback and compliments on their work, useful information, etc., and not just criticisms.

    However, there is only so much complimenting and appreciating you can do when students are failing to meet the basic expectations/requirements of the course. Many of the students seem to sincerely not "get" what is expected of them, and someone has to explain this to them. How much is the instructor supposed to compliment students for standing around the desk doing nothing??

    And last, I don't see it as my job to "motivate" adult students to do anything. They presumably entered nursing school because they want to become nurses. If they don't want to become nurses, or don't want to do the work necessary to do so, that is perfectly fine with me and they are welcome to withdraw (or flunk out, if they prefer). But how and why is it my job to convince unmotivated students that they should want to be more involved and do better? If they want to meet the requirements of the course, I'll be glad to help them to do so in any way that I can. If they don't, that's their choice.


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