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LadysSolo 6,500 Views

Joined Dec 17, '06. Posts: 306 (70% Liked) Likes: 830

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  • Sep 17

    Whatever advice you choose to follow, my only advice is document EVERYTHING! Makes copies of all correspondence, note any phone calls made regarding this, the time, date and who you talked to, copies of any email, text or other correspondence, etc. You wouldn't believe the cases won or lost just soley based on paperwork or the lack thereof....

  • Sep 8

    Are there nurses who refuse to change or help with patients. Sure. As a supervisor I will correct nurses who state "I didn't go to nursing school to wipe butt". Perspective is very important. As a CNA, I thought LPNs weren't busy. As a LPN I though RNs weren't busy. As a RN I thought supervisors weren't busy. As a supervisor I thought nurse managers weren't busy. I was wrong. I still help toilet people, answer lights, etc. If I don't its because I am busy, and it may appear that I'm not. I've seen the nurse that looks for a CNA for 15 minutes to get water for a resident, when in fact they could have done it themselves in less time. I've also seen most times where CNAs leave on time and nurses are still charting. If a nurse is flat out refusing and not truly busy with something else, that needs to be addressed by the manager/supervisor.

  • Sep 8

    Quote from Wuzzie
    So he thought she should allow her patient to have his constitutional rights violated and be assaulted on top of that??? Please ask him how he thought that would get "all sorted out" AFTER the damage was done without consequences for the nurse? I'm not sure how that works.

    It wouldn't have gotten sorted out likely. It would have been brushed under the table. This was almost under the radar too till the video went out. How much of this goes unchallenged daily? The years of the police riding the righteous horse is done. They need to clean this up.

  • Sep 8

    Quote from heron
    Did you even read the thread? No one has defended the actions of the cop. What most of us are trying to get across is that trying to restrain an out of control cop in the process of making an arrest will:

    - likely get you arrested, too - and charged with any one of a whole raft of criminal charges, many of which are felonies.

    - may also get you shot.

    - may also get anyone else in the vicinity shot.
    Here's *my* "professional judgement" - based on what I saw in both videos and in watching the Interviews that Nurse Wubbels did on TV..

    She was originally "upstairs" and moved to a more "public" area of the hospital because she felt threatened by Detective Payne..

    The video of the actual "arrest" shows an officer flipping out. Acting irrationally and violently towards someone who wasn't a threat to him.

    So - "OMG, he might shoot someone if you step in" has the flipside that "OMG, he could seriously injure or kill this woman if she says or does the slightest wrong thing"..

    The chief of the university police faulted his own officers for agreeing to "take the ride" with her - because they jumped in the back seat, and left the nurse in the front, with the unhinged cop.

    Normally, I'd agree totally, that no one should interfere with an arrest - take the ride & let your lawyer collect a check for you.. In this particular case, (he literally threatened other officers who tried to intervene) - they really *should* have stepped up and said "nope, not happening with me here - take your hands off, or you'll be in cuffs yourself.".. That would absolutely require both balls and training, evidently, neither were present in these officers.

    And I think this is the fundamental difference between nursing school and cop school. Nurses are required to tell people who "outrank" them (doctors) - that "you might not want to do that".. Nursing school has simulations where you have to speak up even though it's uncomfortable and scary. Nurses are required by law to intervene to prevent harm.

    Cop school has training that says "don't interfere with an arrest".. As shown here, that's sometimes the wrong thing to do.

    It's absolutely a training issue - if you can teach nurses to intervene, you can teach cops to do the same thing.

  • Sep 5

    Detective Payne needs a serious reassignment, like not being allowed to carry handcuffs or have the authority to use them. It was obvious from the body cam Nurse Wubbels was making a perfectly reasonable and legal response to an illegal request. That he did that to her while all the other officers stood by and watched is an incredible black mark on police everywhere.

    Police have gotten totally out of hand. I used to be a super advocate for officers. I "get" that they make split second decisions that may appear wrong with 20/20 retrospection but I had always assumed they were reasonable when there was no life-threatening emergency.

    No more. They done crossed the line messin' with a nurse in the hospital doing her JOB! I may represent one of the last groups (white male) to finally come around. Police departments best get this cleaned up as they are losing all credibility and respect.

    They thought their jobs were hard before .........

  • Sep 5

    If this has already been said here I apologize; KSL.com in Utah is reporting that Payne has been fired from his part time job with Gold Cross Ambulance because of his remarks that he would be bringing all the indigents to U of U and all the good ones elsewhere.

  • Sep 5

    Quote from HarleyGrandma
    Her hospital has now issued an order barring police from patient care areas period. They also are no longer allowing the police to talk directly to the nurses (they will have to talk with nurse supervisors). I think this is an important line in the sand. I'm glad a hospital is standing up for whats right.
    Utah hospital to cops: Stay away from our nurses - The Washington Post
    Actually, that policy was put in place weeks ago after unsat response from PD to Hospital concerns. It was a desperate move by the Hospital to protect staff in the short term while Nurse Wobbels FOIA'd the bodycam and released it to get the necessary contrition that PD wouldn't show without public outrage.

  • Sep 4

    WHO comes up with this crap?!?!? We ALREADY have WAY MORE patients than we can handle, (I do, anyways) I spend my shift with cotton mouth and aching feet just trying to get everyone medicated and treated while trying to manage random things that come up and make sure my CNAs are doing what they should be doing....how in GODS GREEN EARTH do they actually think we would have the time to do this?

    Someone HAS to realize that these expectations are NOT realistic and they just include them anyway because no one can be that dumb!

    Sometimes I am still so utterly shocked at what we do to our sweet lil' old people. Good GRIEF!

    anyways, I guess what you do when state comes is hide in a bathroom and pray to god they choose to watch someone with two meds.

  • Sep 4

    Quote from RunnerNurse09
    Resisting arrest is not lawful. Yes , the cop was wrong and she was wrongfully arrested. But think for a minute what it would be like if everyone who was ever placed under arrest was allowed to resist because they thought they shouldnt be arrested. Do you think drug dealers and murderers think they should go to jail? Its not that easy. I think they said she was released 20 minutes later. So resisting does nothing except escalate the situation.
    Sorry for hitting this twice but this argument really does sicken me. I'm just sort of musing the fact of life which is that someone will always come forward in attempts to defend the absolutely indefensible. NO ONE threatened this man; this officer. He was in ZERO danger. Furthermore, the ONLY reason that he can not accomplish what he wants to accomplish is because he himself wants to do it illegally. The fact that he is unable to force/intimidate someone else into breaking the law is THE ONLY REASON that this happened. He had an explosion of bruised ego and absolutely nothing more.

    We're all referring to this as an "arrest", but did it ever even qualify as such? Did his body cam just miss the part where he followed proper procedure for "arresting" someone? He did no such thing. He merely attacked and assaulted her and "detained" her against her will unlawfully, while his idiot superior came to the scene to try to bully her into believing she was wrong.

    Sickening.

  • Sep 4

    This is the way the police operate. You are either going to do what I say, or I'm going to make you do what I say. That's the mentality of law enforcement and it stems from their ****** training.

  • Sep 4

    The treatment of this nurse was obviously horrific. What's also very concerning, in addition to him carrying a weapon, is that he works for EMS. I shudder at the thought of what he may have done to patients in the field.

    He needs to be terminated from all positions effective immediately. He's too emotionally erratic and unsteady to be responsible and trusted.

  • Sep 4

    Preface: I've seen the short version of the video but have not watched the extended version.

    As a former LEO who is now on a second career as an RN, this is horrifying and heart breaking. I can think of numerous times I responded to the local ED to assist nursing staff/security staff with all manner of incidents. We worked as a team. We had policies about blood draws/restraints/arrests, etc in place and everyone did what was necessary. This "officer" disgusts me. I wonder what else he has been internally investigated for over the years. (I say this because I worked with a handful of guys who were on power trips like this guy, and though it is hard to speak up, you have to if you are truly a "good cop.") I'm glad SLCPD handed this investigation to another agency--though personally I would have had the state investigate. I commend the other nurses for speaking up but for not going hands on as that would have escalated an already horrible situation. On the other hand, I'm disgusted by the other police officers on the scene for not stepping in and stopping their "brother officer." That thin blue line can be an amazing thing and a horrifying excuse. May RN Alex find peace knowing she did the right thing, may her hospital stand by her side legally/financially and may this so-called officer be prosecuted for assault. Peace be with us all.

  • Sep 2

    I wish this came as a surprise but given the lack of accountability and consequences police face for abusing their power, this will continue.

  • Sep 2

    Keep in mind, the Supreme Court ruled in 2016 that police may obtain breathalyzer results as part of an active investigation with no warrant necessary. However, they ruled that blood draws were invasive medical procedures and require a warrant or the person's consent. This patient was unable to provide consent, since he was sedated/intubated, he was an innocent victim, not a suspect, nor did this police office have a warrant. In the long version of the video, he can be heard saying "I can go get a warrant later". It doesn't work that way. He feels he is above the law. He knows he has no grounds to obtain that sample. Also in the long version of the video, the nurse even tries to reason with the officer that getting a blood sample would be futile because the patient is on medication to keep him sedated and control his pain. It would falsely appear as if he had opiates in his system.

    In my opinion, these cops were trying to cover their butts because their high speed chase ended in their suspect harming an innocent victim. They're more worried about trying to cast a shadow of a doubt on the victim by being able to say he had drugs/alcohol in his system (who knows if they would have tampered with the sample, with the way this hot-head was acting?) Again, just my speculation and opinion. It just doesn't make any sense why this cop would go to such lengths in this situation. And his supervisor continues to bully the nurse as she's sitting in the police car, which they strapped her in with the seat belt (false imprisonment).

  • Sep 2

    I am horrified for Alex, watching the sudden and explosive aggression as the office lunged at her. I too would have backed up quickly, just a knee jerk reaction the body has to avoid being hit.

    I see the SLC Mayor only saw the video for the first time a couple of days ago (8/31) and has publicly apologized for this incident, Statements from Mayor Jackie Biskupski and Salt Lake City Police Department Chief Mike Brown on incident at University of Utah Medical Center — Salt Lake City Mayor's Office and it is only by his order that an internal investigation is being done. If not for that this officer would not have been placed on administrative leave... at least he was not, until the mayor got involved.

    So far Alex has said she's focused on education of the police department on handling things in a more appropriate (and legal) manner. I agree that she should sue... I think most administrators do a better job at educating their departments when there has been repercussions.

    Let's also contemplate the patients that were placed in jeopardy as a result of this altercation, how many lights when unanswered, how many rounds were interrupted and what the staffing was like when a police officer interrupted a nurses shift and took her away from her critically ill patients. Do we need to have laws placed that if a nurse is competent and not harming patients that arrest need to happen at end of shift (a bit of tongue in check, but also some legit concern). That officer endangered more than one person with his illegal arrest, and that should be taken into consideration when deciding his (and his supervisors) responsibility.


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