Phasing out LPNs/LVNs? - page 2

The hospital I work at is making a big change that's making a big stink for a lot of people. Instead of assigning LPNs to direct patient care, they are now using LPNs as more of a resource (like they... Read More

  1. by   dbsn00
    Quote from NoCrumping
    Well, personally, and I realize this is another topic, I think there should be either you are an RN, or you are a tech/aid etc. I think the LPNs should either go to school to get their RN, or have their titles become aids/techs etc. I know, I will be flamed for this one. But, I honestly think there should be one set of credentials for "nurse", and that is a Registered Nurse. LPN's had their time when they were very valuable to healthcare, and they still are... but as todays patients acuities are getting higher, I think this is the way to go.Like it or not, RN's are considered the professionals of the nursing field, and I think patients deserve to be treated by professionals, considering the high cost of healthcare these days. Now dont get me wrong, there are tons of very intelligent and competent LPNs out there who know their stuff...... but ..... in this day and age, you need the credentials.That way, there will be no more of that "oh, you are a nurse, are you a RN or a LPN?" junk. You work your butt off, get the title and respect you deserve!!! But in all actuality, its the BON's and all the powers that be that allow this debate to happen.
    There should be a minimum requirement for a "nurse"........RN.
    Well, here's some more flames for
    you.. :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire
    I value myself as an extremely competant & skilled LPN who frequently has to show RNs basic skills that they should already know considering their "credentials". I'm so sick of having to defend my PROFESSIONAL STATUS (yes, LPNs ARE professionals, at least here in NY) to a fellow nurse. Respect is earned by your performance/skills & integrity & ability to command it, not by letters after your name. I know plenty of RNs that I do respect because they deserve it, & almost as many that I'd like to suggest attend a long refresher course. Aid/tech, my a**!
  2. by   txspadequeenRN
    I was hoping you would come in on this discussion......




    Quote from Marie_LPN
    Exactly.
  3. by   LPN1974
    Quote from Marie_LPN
    It never ceases to amaze me that when people say this, it also happens to be the title they have.

    Excellent point, Marie.
    BSN no less.
    I suppose a NP could say the same thing, heck go all the way up and let the MDs say it. Let's just require everyone in medical field to be MDs and we can all do the same job then, or just fight over who gets to do what or who gets to do nothing.

    I don't whether to or !!!
  4. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from txspadequeen921
    I was hoping you would come in on this discussion......
    Typically i don't when it looks like an i'm-better-than-you-because-i'm-a/an-(fill in job title here).
  5. by   GN1974
    NoCrumping,

    As I said in a previous post--how is it that you can say LPN's had their place once and should be done away with, but are still valuable? From a reality and intellectual point of view your theory is but a dream. There are sooo many vast areas of nursing that can not, and will never be able to be supported safely and effectively with RN's only. The community based nursing alone has grown in leaps and bounds--and there are not enough RN's, LPN's, and CNA's to cover the need. We are yet to see the baby boomers come of age...and when they do another great strain will be put on the healthcare delivery system. LPN's take a state board exam just like RN's to evaluate if they can practice at a minimum safe standard within a set scope. LPN's can safely and effectively deliver care in various settings to a broad population. Your right LPN's had their day, but where you are greatly mistaken is that they currently have their day...and they have their future! I do hold certain beliefs of formal educational requirments to work in certain areas of acute care...but that is such a tiny area in the vast world of nursing. I was an LPN for 10 years before continuing on for my RN degree. I was a CNA for several years before getting my PN certificate...this has enabled me to have a great respect and knowledge base for exactly what these professions do and how much of a positive impact they have. When I went to LPN school I was a single mom with a very sick child...I worked hard to earn that title...I provided quality, safe care in a wide range of settings. Over the years I have received thank you notes from some of my memorable patients/family members--I made a positive impact (as do many LPN's). I do not find your post very reasonable or realistic.
    Karen
    CNA,LPN,ADN

    Quote from NoCrumping
    Well, personally, and I realize this is another topic, I think there should be either you are an RN, or you are a tech/aid etc. I think the LPNs should either go to school to get their RN, or have their titles become aids/techs etc. I know, I will be flamed for this one. But, I honestly think there should be one set of credentials for "nurse", and that is a Registered Nurse. LPN's had their time when they were very valuable to healthcare, and they still are... but as todays patients acuities are getting higher, I think this is the way to go.Like it or not, RN's are considered the professionals of the nursing field, and I think patients deserve to be treated by professionals, considering the high cost of healthcare these days. Now dont get me wrong, there are tons of very intelligent and competent LPNs out there who know their stuff...... but ..... in this day and age, you need the credentials.That way, there will be no more of that "oh, you are a nurse, are you a RN or a LPN?" junk. You work your butt off, get the title and respect you deserve!!! But in all actuality, its the BON's and all the powers that be that allow this debate to happen.
    There should be a minimum requirement for a "nurse"........RN.
  6. by   barefootlady
    I can't believe this mess is starting again. Phasing out of LPN's has been tried and tried over the years in different places. It Never Works. Personally, I would just as soon work with a good experienced LPN, as a new nurse who does not know much. I have worked with some great LPN's and some not so great. There is room in health care for all levels of skill, it just takes convincing administration of the value of those doing some of the less technical jobs. Like I said, I worked with LPN's who could suction trachs, do IV's, detect changes in cardiac function, and were right on the spot in an emergency sitution. Of course, they were allowed to perform up to their skill level. That was a long time ago, over 10 years, but I sure miss those ladies when we are having a rough day, need an extra pair of hands, and no one is there to pick up the overflow. It's so sad we don't respect our fellow nurses, no matter the level of license, cause we sure need all of them we can get these days.
  7. by   NoCrumping
    Quote from GN1974
    LPN's had their time when they were very valuable to healthcare, and they still are... but as todays patients acuities are getting higher

    how can you say they are still valuable but need to be done away with in the same breath? I understand what you are saying about acuity and agree to a certain extent...but to totally not have LPN's...who would staff all the nursing homes???? Certainly there isn't enough RN's to even staff hospitals let alone other facilities (LTC, rehabs,psych and addiction centers). It would be a waste of resources without doubt.


    Karen
    They are valuable.... thats why they should become RN's. By sheer numbers, the shortage would lessen. I think there should be Registered Nurses, educated at the bachelor level, and Certified Nursing Assistants, to assist the Registered Nurse. Period.
    Who would staff the nursing homes? CNA's and RN's.
    We (as nurses) need to solidify our role as professionals. This a good start, in my opinion . People hear you are a nurse... first thing they ask.... RN or LPN? There is too much variable and too much to be misconstrued. When a police officer answers someone after asked what he does for a living, you dont often hear people saying "oh, captain, liutenant, detective?" , even though there certainly are those levels of their profession... why? because that profession is respected by the general public. Do they contribute a more valuable service than nurses? I say ABSOLUTELY NOT.
    Again, I say there should be one educational definition of a nurse, and thats a REGISTERED NURSE. Now, I know all of the LPN's are thinking, how dare I "insult" you or suggest you are not capable of taking care of patients, I am not. And I know that many of LPN's dont feel that they even want to be RN's, and thats their feelings.... I just feel that there should not be an option of being one. Its time that they are eliminated, as they are allready being phased out slowly all over the US. I think the existing LPN's should be given the option of becoming an RN, or being a CNA. By the way, has anybody ever seen an entrance exam to get into an LPN program? Its basically a literacy test. They even tell you to get a high school GED practice book to prepare for it. That said, I do not think all LPNs are unskilled or uneducated. I am saying that it takes years for them most of the time to become skilled and educated, learning on the job, from other nurses, etc....I know an LPN, we are close.... she tells me that 20 yrs ago, when she became an LPN, her role was that of a CNA nowadays.Its time for that to evolve again, with an RN being a minimun entry to practice.Now, of course I understand this cannot be done overnight. But I think it should be the direction it takes in the future. Then you'll see nursing is given the respect it deserves.
  8. by   NoCrumping
    Quote from dbsn00
    Well, here's some more flames for
    you.. :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire
    I value myself as an extremely competant & skilled LPN who frequently has to show RNs basic skills that they should already know considering their "credentials". I'm so sick of having to defend my PROFESSIONAL STATUS (yes, LPNs ARE professionals, at least here in NY) to a fellow nurse. Respect is earned by your performance/skills & integrity & ability to command it, not by letters after your name. I know plenty of RNs that I do respect because they deserve it, & almost as many that I'd like to suggest attend a long refresher course. Aid/tech, my a**!
    Everyones missing my whole entire point..... I WILL CONCEIDE for the sake of this discussion, ALL OF YOU ARE SUPER NURSES, WHO KNOW MORE THAN MOST RNS DO, ETC. I AM SIMPLY SAYING THAT THERE SHOULD NOT BE AN OPTION OF BEING ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO, YOU CAN ALL BE SUPER NURSES, BUT BE RNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT TO PERSONALLY ATTACK ANY LPN, BUT FOR THE SAKE OF THE ENTIRE NURSING PROFESSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DOES ANYBODY GRASP WHAT I AM SAYING? GET OFF DEFENSIVE MODE FOR A SECOND AND THINK. Aid/tech, my a**![/QUOTE]----I also said I thought that LPNs should become RN's; because you automatically found that to be your option,being a tech/aid, well, thats your doing. IM TALKING BIG PICTURE-PROFESSIONAL -RESPECT STUFF, AND OF COURSE YOUR MAKING IT INTO AN RN-LPN DEBATE. THINK NURSING AS A WHOLE.
  9. by   NoCrumping
    Quote from Marie_LPN
    It never ceases to amaze me that when people say this, it also happens to be the title they have.
    Actually, I didnt enter into practice witha BSN. I woke up and smelled the coffee real quick, graduating with Diploma from a hospital based program.
    It also never ceases to amaze me,that the ones who fight tooth and nail against it, are the ones who dont have the title.
  10. by   NoCrumping
    Quote from LPN1974
    Excellent point, Marie.
    BSN no less.
    I suppose a NP could say the same thing, heck go all the way up and let the MDs say it. Let's just require everyone in medical field to be MDs and we can all do the same job then, or just fight over who gets to do what or who gets to do nothing.

    I don't whether to or !!!
    And, no, an NP wouldnt say the same thing.... I am talking bedside staff nursing here.... not advanced practice.
  11. by   NoCrumping
    [QUOTE=txspadequeen921]Your right you are about to get flamed ,and Im about to do it. Nothing pisses me off moe than disrespect of your fellow nurses. I have done my time baby and chances are I can dance circles around you!

    Whatever, maybe you can, we will never know, and I certainly dont judge my success based on how you perform your nursing role.... But my opinion still is to do it as an RN.

    This is not an attack on competencies as LPNs . Its simply an opinion that there should be no option of being an LPN. Period. And thats not even taking into account the skills of LPN's. You all have them , thats great, but utilize them as an RN. ..Listen, its simply a theory that we all know will not happen soon. If your all so competent and better than most RN's, than why not show your cards and become one? Then, you will really shine. Dance the night away for all I care whether it be round me, another nurse, a doctor, whatever. The level I am talking about is at the credentialing level, not the skill level, which you all have, dont worry, we all know......No option to be an LPN is still my belief. It just makes sense as a united front as a profession, thats all. BUt, the simple back and forth and defensiveness on these boards, is proof that it probably never will happen, thus we will still be talking about "not being respected as a profession" 15 yrs down the line.
  12. by   NoCrumping
    Hypothetical question..........

    If all the BON's said that LPN's are no longer an option in nursing education,that the existing ones would have to become RN's or become techs/aids..what would you do?
    (dont get into a debate of how many skills you have vs an RN, just think and answer)
  13. by   NoCrumping
    [QUOTE]It doesnt matter what the hell your credentials are if you cant even hook up O2.

    What does that have to do with ANYTHING!!!!! RN vs LPN this is NOT. I simply think we can all have different skill sets, learning curves, etc, under one nursing credential. Is that so hard to understand? We can all be the great nurses we all think we are. Just have one credential to attest to that. We all do mostly the same work, would you agree to that?

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