Orange County CA LVN schools- which is best?

Self-respect comes from being honest with yourself, yes. But it also comes with being HONEST with people who ask for it! The schools listed and the one you work for all share that "shroud" of keeping things in the dark...."CYA because we don't want the bad stuff shutting us down." I could care less about a colleague who breaks the rules, beds down a student, and goes berserk because of a rumor. Or a school covering up a med-error because a student is a 3 year repeat....only because the school looks at them as a $$$ figure. You want to "keep people in the dark", fine - your conscience; your prerogative. I for one have found my "zen" in speaking the truth. I will take the best...and abandon what I call "professional hypocrisy" in my wake. I will sight what is wrong - because nurses are ADVOCATES for those that cannot be advocates for themselves. That includes those that ask for assistance and for those people (not just patients) that have no real understanding of what goes on in these places. And if that dents your pocket book because your "sucker" ratio is down...tough! The truth is the truth.

And apparently, in your haste to what I call "CREDENTIALIZE" yourself, you seemed to have skipped over a lot of the "facts" that you seem to be spouting off about. I love nurses like you...."I did this...I did that...I teach here" as if that changes the fact that you have NOT disproven anything that has been written here. I think instructors like you NEED the naive and stupid individuals that waltz into the admissions offices, because it ensures that you have a "sideline" job to supplement your sagging paycheck. (I mean it must be hard being an LVN and going to school at the same time). Again, nothing in your credentials shows that you are a certified teacher. Certified nurse yes, but as a "VOCATIONAL INSTRUCTOR" - how many contact hours have you spent on course curriculum and design for vocational education? How many college classes have you taken on getting certified as a vocational instructor/educator? In many places that's requried...places that exist outside of California - that have much better passing rates than the schools listed. Is it a wonder that private schools take ANYONE off the street, or for that matter any "nurse" with clinical experience. I mean any bag of skin off the street, who cares if they've had 15 write ups in the last year, from an institution that they carefully omit from their resume. Just as long as they haven't killed anyone - woefully incompetent, yes...just not a convicted "whoops killed another one" kind of nurse.

Funny thing in reading your reply, the "suicide" issue that was brought up was in regards to a support staff member who in fact could not cope with the issues that were being thrown their way - from a D.O.N. who is a "veteran nurse" - who spouts off like a bad case of diarrhea about "Being professional, prompt, and full of compassion. This is the same D.O.N. who looks at a student and tells that student that they need to quit working (the student was putting themselves through school) and just let their parents pay for the school bills; and just to pay them back afterwards. You, JudeElf want to talk about your boss or someone who was probably "cloned" from the same pile of manure they were? It really is funny how that term gets thrown around a lot - "Veteran"....in order to be a veteran, you need to be competent at the trade-craft in which you are trained (in ALL aspects and if you aren't well you are expected to master that which you are most weak in) - isn't that what you expect of your students? And yet at all of these schools - only a hand full of instructors can actually walk-the-walk as being "NURSES". The word competent simply defined is equitable to "learned"....you've achieved a certain understanding in terms of nursing. Compassion...as a nurse...even to those patients or otherwise that are not as "kind" to you...your patient who tells you to go to hell. As a "learned" nurse you provide compassion despite the patient block. "JudeElf" or whatever your tag name is. I really don't care how much you think your critique of the posts impact my sense of "nursing" or what you seem to be calling my "high-horse attitude" is on this thread, because one thing that these private LVN schools in Orange County, CA ALL have is a level of dishonesty that I very much equate to the problematic mortgage industry that has caused massive waves that have ripped through our state and nation, all of which has had a global impact. And why is that "Oh learned sage"? How can I think that these two issues are remotely comparable?! Because there was NO HONESTY on the part of those business, account managers, brokers, owners, etc. In addition to the fact that there was no strict oversight - a very competent oversight into the conduct of ALL mortgage lenders (big and small) - just like there is NO scrutinizing these PRIVATE and public LVN schools that have popped up all over the place, that is until there is a sentinal incident linked to the school. Lastly, and this is a BIG one - HYPOCRICY. The schools are "do as we say, not as we do", and that my "Elder nurse" is something that you are a big part of - in the simplicity of your statement, students are expected to maintain a certain level of professionalism. Yet, still an instructor or administrator can disregard those rules and still function as PAID faculty at these schools.

So as a student, my hard earned money went/goes to pay for your pay check bubba. So here's BRAIN CHECK TIME professor - you go to buy a car...a lot of money right? But the salesman says we got the car for you, you just can't see it until you buy it, oh, and that's the only time you get to drive it...no test drive...no papers...nothing concrete until you are 1500 miles in - and then there's no returns or refunds. Do YOU buy the car? If you do "Jude" it's a wonder you are teaching at ONE of these schools. Makes me think about how many of these schools in the Orange County area you've taught in. I don't know if you are part of the solution...that will have to be judged by how your students "rate" you. Here's the cold hard truth - you are part of the problem. People like you are ready to dole out the advice about "being professional by just roling over and playing the 'whacking board' for your education." Mind you I believe in being professional, being on time, and bringing your "A" game to each day that you are a nurse-in-training and as a nurse. But to take it up the @$$ because someone like you says to do it - even though you know for a fact that you are following the "rules" to the letter. NO WAY! That's how people get shoved into box cars and marched into gas chambers and ovens. More importantly, the advice that you are so ready to dole out doesn't give anyone any REAL/CONCRETE insight or solution to the "issue" in question - the original TITLE OF THE THREAD...."Orange County CA LVN schools - which is best?"
I maintain my answer through my replies on this thread - THERE ARE NONE! These schools are like directly linked petri dishes that are all culturing veneral disease. They are so closely intertwind, despite being competitors, that their "filth" gets distributed so quickly. Now, for the curious student and the critic out there - I also maintain that there are the golden nuggets that you will find (the teachers/instructors in theory and clinical) who will go above and beyond what is expected of them - in order to try to EDUCATE the students. This is often to their own detriment, because either the school doesn't compensate these few instructors; or the instructors are reprimanded for giving of themselves without the consent of the administration.
For the students that are out there - I pose the same series of questions: Why spend $30K on something that has "little-to-no gain" potential? All to pay top dollar to some instructor who is out there trying to make a living at a school, because they either 1.) Don't really want to be a nurse...and well let's face it, they paid top dollar for that nursing license...this is the only way they can keep it or 2.) They themselves are putting themselves through school. Granted the ones doing their MSN or NP - they are tracked to do well and they are usually the ones that put in the time to get you through. But the ones that are on and off 5+ years as LVNs working on getting their RNs. I gotta say...the out look is "Bah-leak". The reason is that they themselves are often looked at as being the "bottom feeders" by most of their colleagues. And mind you....a lot of them don't fair well at clinical sites because they themselves are met with opposition from RN staff at the facilities because they themselves are bound by the scope of practice as LVNs. So in short - your education as an LVN at a SNF may thrive with and LVN instructor. But God forbid you get to an acute hospital and you have to assist with a patient who needs an RN with experience, because your LVN instructor is in the same boat you are in - "Stuck up $#!t creek without a RN to help you paddle."

In closing, "JudeElf" and any other "STAFF NURSES"/Administrators from the various Orange County, CA schools....here's what's up with "bloggin"(as Jude puts it). Honesty. And if it offends your delicate sensibilites that someone is voicing a negative opinion of your beloved place of work - or a class you are teaching. Read it, and if it's full of profanity or just plain garbage. Well, then let it be. But if it is full of a good insight into what is happening around your area of "higher education" - FIX THE PROBLEMS! Oh, and Jude...the follow "chain of command". Please, you of all people should know that $#!T trickles down....it never goes UP! So if that be the case, then do I think that these schools are going to remedy anything? If that was the case, then there wouldn't be a thread with people on it implicating so many INAPPROPRIATE and UNPROFESSIONAL acts by NURSE EDUCATORS would there? Also more puzzling, if anyone takes time to search out LVN responses to their educational experiences in general on this site - you will find that many of them have the same reaction nationwide: "overall lousy". That's a lot to be investing $30 + without so much as a "Hey, can someone give me a NO bull$#!T assessment of is it worth it." But Jude, for folks like yourself it must be A-OK to hand out a "30 year fixed mortgage to an 80- year old man, on what can only be described as a 2 story commode on swamp land; which was appraised (for a shady mortgage broker) as a 2 story luxury condo on beach front propery."
My return advice to you is this...read the facts, and then hit me with the "cut and paste" ....Zen nursing is "Happy Nursing through the 'Daisy chain of love'" - tripe. There is only honesty, because without that there is no compassion, no caring....no crying with your patients or giving them a warm blanket because it justain't true...and if WE as nurses can't be truly honest...well then what are we doing but making money off the backs of those people that we are treating, healing, AND MENTORING!

I close my reply, addressing those that are looking for Nursing Education in Orange County, CA. Re-think the LVN programs. This is a good example of the "Take it as it is...don't listen to the people that have survived...they are all just disgruntled bad eggs." I don't profess to be the sum of all total wisdom and knowledge. But I do present fact in the replies that I have put forward. Your education is too valuable to be spent wasting it on something that is better served by going the more "direct" approach. If you feel like a 4 year program is too much....do the 2 year...you will benefit over the garbage that you will be forced to OVERPAY for in way of money, energy, and spirit. It just isn't worth it. The level of dishonesty is rampant, the level of "unprofessional" conduct is unbelieveable, and the amount of grief you will expend is more well spent on worthwhile work in an ADN-RN program.

This is a follow-up to "JudeElf's" reply on this thread regarding the "validity" of my being an actual "N-U-R-S-E". As he/she put it, because of the "gossip" that has been posted by myself regarding the "unprofessionalism" that has caused colleagues of he/she (maybe even he/she is one of those nurses) to move from school to school because of dangerous, incompetent, and unprofessional nursing behavior. Now, there is no way for any of us her to verify the validity of anyone's credentials. However, YOU the potential student, now, has a very key component of the puzzle in determining if this course of action is worth:

#1 Your hard earned money (or money you will have to pay back in interest);
#2 Your energy and spirit (because this type of program will drain you both physically and emotionally); and
#3 Your precious time (because once again, I reiterate that any and all time that you spend in this type of program will take any time you have away with no return).

See, people like "JudeElf" and his/her boss don't like the fact that there are those of us that speak badly on such programs. Because it does in fact dent their pocket books. Whether they by the Owners/Administrators of the programs or if they are the peon instructors below them. The three things that I listed for you, in the previous paragraph, I can tell you - THEY DON'T GIVE A GOOD #$(%@ Rat's @$$ about! You'd think that because of "honesty in nursing" they would, right? WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG! It's like hospital administrators actually caring to do what is right by the patient, as opposed to looking at what type of insurance the patient has. But for people like "JudeElf" and this goes for the "Senior Nursing staff" out there that are either part of the unprofessional junk that migrates from one school to the next (spreading their filth) or to the administrators that perpetuate dishonest/disingenuous behavior I pose the following challenge: (and quite frankly your stock answers you give to the new recruits coming in the door, says it all)

Why is it that when the new candidate students come in, they aren't allowed to see an actual syllabus, a syllabus that has an actual approval from the administration? Or even better how about an actual review of the course curriculum documentation that is supposed to be submitted to the California Board or their accrediting educational institution? I mean YOU the student pay so much money (don't you think you should be able to see what is "under the hood"). The answer to that is "NO". They don't want you to see that the "V8" engine they sold you is actually a bunch of "mice running inside of a pin wheel".
Ok, I think I've driven my point home in my comparing these "shysters" to Mortgage Lenders and Used Car salesmen.

Here's the other big thing that "experienced nurse educators" like JudeElf won't tell YOU when you ask (because they themselves either don't know - or they want to keep you in the dark so you don't affect their paycheck). What is the real difference between the LVN and ADN programs. Well, the stock answer they will feed you is that the LVN program is the 1st year of an ADN program. And that is pretty much all you will get. The actual answer is this. LVN's, despite their tremendous effort in "cramming" information into 1 year of training, are looked at in complete disgust by their "cousin" nurses the ADN-RN and the BSN-RN...just like many BSN-RN's look down upon their bastard step-siblings the ADN-RNs. Why is that?! I mean we are all nurses aren't we?!? Ask a CNA how they feel and how they are treated by the Licensed Nursing Staff as a whole - you get to see the picture. Oh, and JudeElf would love to paint this "Roses and Romance" fairy tale of how nursing is professional and about loving yourself so that you can sit with a dying patient and crawl under the warm covers with them in their last hours crying and holding their hand. I'm sorry that is a load of propaganda bull$#!T. If you allow youself to get sucked into that load of crap, then the schools have you hook line and sinker. Do I, as an actual LVN, believe that we should be there for our patients at 110% absoF#cking-lutely; do I believe in being professional - without any equivocation! Do I believe in lying to people that ask for assistance, or lying to people who have no idea that they are being lied to? HELL, NO! I did not go through my training, pass my boards, and sign off, just to allow those people that ripped me off to do the same with what they consider to be the next round of "suckers".

LYING is lying JudeElf. If it's blatant fabrications of the truth - just like the "truth" about the privately run LVN programs here in Orange County, CA. The truth is this folks - money well spent is not something that will be uttered even by those that graduate and pass their boards. Time well spent is also far from the lips of those that have experienced it first hand. Well gotten "gains" are not even in the minds of those of us that have come before you. You will spend the better part of a year trying to keep up. You will have roughly 1 day to study for the next days exams. Each exam consists of 50 to 100 or more sometimes, depending on your instructor. The more thorough the instructor the harder and more lengthy the exams. This is in an LVN program. Mind you, you are not given any quarter - it really is do or die. People walk into programs like this from every walk of life. I've seen people with 4 years of college under their belts to highschool drop outs in these programs. All of them with the same "I can do this" attitude....then reality sets in...and in a flash ALL of them start asking "Why didn't they warn us about this." I mean, the administration tells you that it's an "accelerated course" isn't that honest enough? YOU the prospective student answer that one. But before you do anything. I recommend going out and buying an NCLEX prep book like Saunders NCLEX PN review or Springhouse NCLEX PN review (a review book that is broken down by A&P system)...do a "review" 1 day for that system, then the next day take the actual test that is provided in that book; then after the test start studying for the next system - follow it up the next day with the corresponding test. That will give you a "simulated" version of what you will get in the program. The only difference is that the "instructor" will be you - not the vindictive, incompetent, or half@$$3d instructors that you will find rampant throughout all of these businesses.

I'm hoping that there are those out there that will take this advice for what it is. This is an informative look at a "well structured" business that provides false hopes to those that would think that for a large some of money, they are going to get a wonderful change in life and a return on their investment. That is what a lot of people thought of the business of the now incarcerated Bernard "Bernie" Madoff. It's not so much a "ponzi" scheme, but each shool in Orange County, CA has shown itself to be just as dishonest, in addition to being just as lucrative to the unprofessional and unethical bottom feeders that run them. To the staff that would defend them, I challenge you to prove it otherwise - produce the documentation: the curriculum, the syllabus, the actual course outlines in way of detailed information for each student coming through your doors. Because you and I know that the schools cannot afford to do that.

For those that are still considering the LVN programs in anyone of these places, know that you will be put through some of the most grueling training for 1 year. You will be getting more questions per test than those students in an ADN-RN program, because of the TIME CRUNCH factor. The way that these schools look at it is this - "It's your problem, you want a 'fast' certification, you are going to have to take all the garbage we throw at you (good or bad)." They don't care if you learn or not. The $$$ figure is all that matters. More importantly, your education that you receive is not all that it can be, because of the problems with the time crunch. You are literally "drinking from a fire hose" that is going full blast from the minute you start. At least with the ADN-RN or BSN-RN your time spent in cultivates better repetition and competencies of the material/skills you learn in programs like the LVN pathway. Plus, at the completion of even an ADN-RN program you are able to function completely without having to bug your co-workers to cover things like IVPB drugs or IV drugs. Being somewhere in the middle of the whole "power struggle" seems to be a better place to start off from, as opposed to being shucked to a place near the bottom.

As I have been doing with my previous posts on this thread - do yourself a favor and take the honest advice from someone who has been where YOU are thinking about putting yourself. Don't make the same mistakes that so many of us have/had. Don't get suckered into thinking that these LVN programs are staffed by caring, honest individuals. There are some individuals there, I will grant you that, but not enough to outweigh the crap that becomes the embodiment of the entire institution. Reconsider all your options...take a leap and try a NCLEX PN review book as I recommended. If you score passing scores....you "MAY BE" capable of enduring the 1 year of B!#$#!T that they throw at you. Still though, in the end, with what I have thrown out there in way of prospecting jobs and clinical camaraderie is NOT there.

Make the best informed decision that you can make. Don't just take anyone's "vague" tale of fancy as dogma. Best of luck to anyone reading this.

Well. I've taken a few days off of critiquing the schools, because I wanted to step back and ask a few questions from those classmates that I still remain in contact with; and I wanted to discuss my posts with those instructors and staff members that know I am posting. Surprisingly, the staff think that it's a good thing. The classmates think that I may set myself up as a "bullet magnet". But the overall consensus is that I am doing what needs to be done in order to help those that are going into this with full-on blinders. I feel as though. there should be something like this out there whether it be an actual blog or a website like the "Barron's Guide to Colleges & Universities". The reason why is to ensure these schools are compliant with meeting the necessary criteria in order to operate, showing accountability for their standings with their state boards and accrediting enitites; but more importantly - the students get an idea about which program is indeed "top notch". There are so many schools nationwide, and SoCal alone has numerous ones that all claim to be #1. But with instructors that tell you religiously, "If you mess anything up, I will KILL you." (In a very strong Filipino accent) I'm sorry. This is not a "racial" thing. But to be given that kind of verbal threat in front of staff members at facilities for which you are doing clinical hours. Ask yourself if this is
A.) Professional Conduct for a nurse, let alone a NURSE EDUCATOR,
B.) Would you the student consider this instructor to be a competent Nurse Educator that is going to teach you what you need to know professionally, and C.) Is the $30K+ you paid in tution costs really getting you in eductaion?

There are those "educators" or "senior nurses" on this site and in this thread that would have the audacity to say that my bringing these issues to light is unprofessional, and by doing so goes against the "nursing code of conduct". That maybe true for the "nursing" side of keeping things compartmentalized for the sake of a unit. But as EDUCATORS - that crap goes right out the door. More importantly, if the nurse is not HONEST in everything that they do, then they are simply hypocritical of everything that comes out of their mouths as instructors. Therefore, making these "nurse code"-pulpit pumpers a bunch of hypocrites, liars, and cheats. This is why so many of them are on that "rotating conveyor belt" between schools on a regular basis. Thus, perpetuating the cycle of garbage in....screw the students....very few passing nclex. That is where your $30K+ in tuition is going....straight into Mr./Mrs. Huff-a-lotta-dump's pocket. That goes for all the programs that these schools offer whether it be LVN, RN-bridge, Massage Therapy, Scrub techs, etc.

I just found out that CNI has got their LVN-part time program online or on track to start sometime soon. So, you spend twice the allotted time in school (when that time could have been spent on an ADN-RN) to earn a certificate that doesn't guarantee even a remote shot at what their recruiters claim you will make...worth the money? Nope. But a sure fire way for them to keep you in longer for a guaranteed pay-out for no one other than the owners. Seems like a very "honest" enterprise, huh? Be skeptical....re-evaluate what you are thinking and be better informed before you take the plunge into something that a "used-car salesman" turned account manger (at the school) tries to rope you into - because once you've signed your money over to them....it's hard to get it back. I will try to post more on different aspects of the schools - but it all boils down to the same thing - no ethics, no morals, no foundation in true "education" because none of these programs have real "nurse educators", all compounded by the fact that the curriculum at any of these places would be torn to shreds by a committee at an actual place of higher education. Most of the instructors both clinical and theory at any of these places would be laughed out of 2-yr and 4-yr programs because of a complete lack of experience/knowledge in actual teaching or for a blatant unprofessional attitude (like sleeping with your student, telling other students that you "the instructor" are out to flunk someone, or matter-o-factly your D.O.N. has no clue that her assistant D.O.N. is abusing her position and power all in the name of that D.O.N.)

You tell me....worth the money, time, and effort? I tell you what...a 2 year wait doesn't sound so bad....

Wow, I'm very glad to have chosen the school I'm currently attending. I will be done with the program in approx. 5 weeks and have had great instructors, clinical and theory, except one, which I believe is now teaching at your school. We have students come in daily that have passed their boards and now have jobs as LVN's. I know of quite a few facilities that hire our students once they are licensed. Two nurses that I've had at my Dr's office both attended my school and gave it a high recommendation which is why I decided on the school that I'm currently attending. All in all, it's been a great experience for me. As an LVN, I can also go now to a community college and get into an LVN to RN bridge program.

WHat school are you attending lillor?

Dear Confused, Per your question, I am not a student. I am a Nursing Instructor at an Orange County School. I have 21 years experience, but I specialize in Hospice and am a Certified Hospice & Palliative Licensed Nurse, a credential for which I took a National exam. Good luck to your career. If you have any concerns or questions, feel free to contact me. I love to mentor students and new Nurses. JudeElf

I am attending the LVN program at American Career College in Anaheim.