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- Aug 20, '08 by 2btmanrnLadyJane
My classmates carefully, followed through with the chain of command. All the way to top. One thing that was accomplished was that the chancellor would think about that the students repeat second year. But if the students were to do that, they would have to audit their current grades. Audit their current grades? Most of them have A's. Why would they want to audit those grades? According to the policy book the only reason a student was to audit a grade is if they recieve a grade 'D'. None of my classmates have that. Does that sound fair to you? Plus, they would have to spend close to $9000 and six months more months. I don't know what to tell them about that. What do you guys think? The chancellor said, he was thinking about doing that. Its not written in stone.
- Aug 20, '08 by suslastdntWith our school, following the "chain of command" starts with our instructor & ends with our instructor. The Dean & her are 1 in the same. She says the Dean basically does what she says. I am not planning on going back and sure wouldn't be able to after the letters I wrote to State Board, etc. She would make my life a living Hell & be sure I failed! If your classmates are allowed to start back, will they still have to chance failing again because of the Hesi? My classmate called our sister school & they use the Hesi for what it is meant for- not to keep anyone from graduating. That doesn't make much since to me- but then again, none of this does!
- Aug 20, '08 by *LadyJane*2btmanrn,
Oh if I had paid 9 grand and a year of my time and I was not prepared to take and pass HESI and NCLEX, and the school had no plan to help the students remediate, then I would seriously begin to believe that the school was only out to help the school, and not the students one little teeny bit.
If that "offer" was extended to me, not only would I be angry, but I would seriously doubt that the school had the capability of teaching the students and preparing them for the test. For all of them to be earning A's, and then to fail HESI en masse, well, there is something majorly wrong there. They could not all have severe test anxiety.
Didn't you say that your instruction was lacking, and that you basically had to teach yourself?
Unreal. I'd see an attorney if I were them.
- Aug 21, '08 by valmor1984We have successfully used HESI for a number of years. In the beginning, we gave specialty exams each semester, which were used to provide students with assessment information (were not tied to a course grade). Students did not take them seriously, despite being told that good effort would give them an idea of areas that they needed to review.
Because this method did not appear to be working, we did two things: we now give only midcurricular and exit exams. The midcurricular exam is worth a (small) percentage of the second medical-surgical course grade. If any student does not achieve an 850 on the midcurricular exam, faculty in that course meet with each student and create a study plan that will help them for the exit exam.
The exit exam is part of the course requirements in one senior course. Students are told before they enter the program that they will be given this test,and are reminded of this each semester that the exit exam is tied to graduation. Students have three attempts within the last semester to achieve an 850 on the exit exam. Historically, about 5% of the class does not achieve an 850 after 3 attempts. This year (very unusually) 17% of the class did not get an 850 after the third try.
Students who do not get achieve 850 receive an “I” (incomplete) and may walk in the graduation ceremonies. Then, they must attend a six-week remediation course facilitated by faculty. After that, the students take the HESI for a fourth time. To date, we have not had a single student fail to achieve an 850 on the HESI. Of those students who completed the HESI the fourth time, >85% pass NCLEX on the first attempt.
Generally, the students who do not achieve an 850 on three attempts are those who were consistently just at passing in most/all of their nursing courses. Using the HESI in this way assists us in identifying those students who needed additional remediation, and providing the small-group time and attention that they may need to pass NCLEX.
The net result? We have an excellent (>95%, usually 100%) pass rate. This was an important but secondary consideration in our decision-making, and it does keep the administration and the SBON happy.Last edit by valmor1984 on Aug 21, '08 : Reason: smilies appearing from nowhere
- Aug 21, '08 by *LadyJane*Another result? I imagine that the students that failed HESI but passed when they got additional chances to remediate were also happy. Your college sounds like it has a reasonable plan for remediation, and it also sounds like you care about your students being successful in graduating as well as passing NCLEX.
Now if only the school that 2btmanrn attended. He said that he was the only one in his class who passed HESI even though most all of the other students had been earning A's all along. There is a major disconnect there.Last edit by *LadyJane* on Aug 21, '08 : Reason: clarity
- Aug 21, '08 by valmor1984Well said! Unquestionably, we want all of our students to be successful. Our philosophy has always been that students/graduates will ultimately be happiest if they are successful in passing NCLEX the first time, and starting their careers, even if they did not enjoy some of the road they had to travel to get there.
It is undeniable that the process can be a very difficult one for students, but I think the results show that the method works for everyone involved. It provided us with a quantifiable way to show that some students needed more time/remediation/guidance to prepare for NCLEX.
Certainly, I can attest that our reason for using this method was to help our students; all other concerns were secondary.
- Aug 28, '08 by 2btmanrnThere were three of us who passed HESI. The rest are being offered to audit there second year. Yes, they have to pay for the entire 6 months, new text books, and the school decided to change their uniform color.
I would never audit my grades. Why? They were all A's, B's and one C.
What I fear most, is more of the abuse the instructors will inflict upon my classmates. My classmates and I were so traumatize by it all. I can never attend a classroom setting again. I will be getting my bachelors on line.
I did realize something. Something to ponder about. There were three of us who passed HESI. But, I was the only one who passed NCLEX the first time. The school posted all over the place that they had 100% NCLEX pass rate.
They didn't count the two who didn't pass the first time. I thought they had, but they didn't.
Here is the kicker, my classmate took NCLEX for the second time and passed last week. I don't know why she took it so quickly, but anyway.
Today, I went to try to get my degree at the school. Guess what? They had fliers all over the place. "NCLEX pass rate 100% for the second time this year "
How is that possible????
I wanted to grab some of those new students and tell them to run, get away from that school.
A few of my classmates are seeking legal counseling. Since I am working now, I offered to financially assist them. Its all I can do. We were all very close. After three years, how can you not?
I am interested, however, in knowing if someone out there is or will be filling a class action lawsuit. This story needs to be told. Can we please help future students, ourselves, or classmates through this selfish act?
Again, I don't have any quarrel for standarized tests, just utilize accordingly. Both faculty and students must be held accountable
I know it won't be easy. But, I pray that someone out there has the knowlege, know how, resources, connections to start this endeavor.
I know you are out there somewhere. Please step up to the plate. PLEASE!
- Aug 28, '08 by *LadyJane*Since the school is publishing an untruth by it's 100% pass rate, may I humbly suggest that the students might want to talk to a reporter at your paper and tell their stories. I'd be surprised if the college would be thrilled at the prospect of former students going public with their stories, especially where it might impact their cash flow from prospective students. Of course, they need to check with their attorney first. They could easily "paint themselves into a corner" if talking to the paper first, and then something that they said isn't completely true, it would kill their veracity in court later on, if their case went to trial.
In the meantime, be sure you tell people about your experience with that school, and make sure you tell them the name of the school.
I feel sorry for the new students entering this fall who think that they will be prepared for NCLEX.
- Aug 31, '08 by AOx1I suppose the thing that saddens me most about this thread is the apparent view the school is taking in viewing students as disposable. We need nurses desperately. I think the problem with many standardized tests is that they tend to favor 'traditional' learners; those who can read a book, attend a lecture, and pass the test. Many students need more than one try to "get" new information, and learn best through visual and kinesthetic input.
While it is true that some may never be able to be good nurses, it is not true of most. I find that the nurses in practice that scare me the most are of two varieties- those who are too lazy to do anything (including critically think and attend to the patient's needs) and those who think they know everything. The refusal to remediate these students makes me very sad. Consider asking your school to fund a grant for a student success counselor that is dedicated to the school of nursing only.
- Sep 4, '08 by 2btmanrnI agree with standarized testing, but it must be used throughout the entire curriculum. Through out the nursing program, we used paper tests and a scantron. We never practiced or took any test with the computer. Well, maybe because most of our computer were not working or too slow. Don't forget, that most of the time, we couldn't even get into our computer lab. Not enough support faculty employed. Another thing, and most important. We were constantly humilated, I am talking verbal abuse. I think by the time the instructors were done with us, we had no confidence or self esteem. We begged the Dean to find someone to help us. We were mostly used as helpers, help the instructors with their church functions. It was NUTS. So now, the school wants more than 9000 for my classmates to repeat second year and have their grades audited and pass second year in order to repeat taking HESI. Grades audited? Most of my classmates have A's and B's. Approx five of them are Cum Laudes. All I can do for them is pray, Some did seek an attorney. I spent four years with my classmates. I know how they are, and I know they will make great nurses. They have sacrificed so much, more than I. They have families, children. I don't. I don't think I could of ever studied as hard as they have, with whats already on their plate. I ask anyone, please if you know of anyone, resources, anything that may help them. Please PM me. I understand this a long standing debate. I just can't seem to get over the fact, that my classmates have been abandoned by the program. Now, they want my classmates to come up with more money and delete their original grades. How can my classmates trust these very same instructor that abused, and lied to them? How will we know, that the instructors won't fail them on purpose? One of my clinical instructor had said to me, when she found out I passed NCLEX. That she feels that all the students would pass NCLEX the first time. And that she didn't believe in using HESI in this manner. I asked her, why she couldn't give that opinion to the chancellor? She said, because if she was, the chancellor would not hire her next time.
Some people have too much power. Its the little guys that finsih last. When it comes to money and or power, I see that prevents people from doing what is right. My gut instinct tells me this is all wrong.
I need someone to make recommendations.
To All Educators: I ask you this, if you know any way to direct me to the appropriate people. Please PM me.
I am being truthful when I say, my classmates are excellent students. I have studied with them for four years. I should know.
In your spare time, I understand school has started. If you can help me research this. I know you guys network.
Again, I don't have any quarrel with stanardized testing. As long, as it is use accordingly. Measure our areas of weakness from the beginning. If students have any areas of weakness, please don't let them matriculate onto the next course.
As I continue to read various posts here, I have come to realize that not all instructors are out to get their students. I know there are instructors out there who really want to see their students succeed. I truly believe that.
ThanksLast edit by 2btmanrn on Sep 4, '08