Women in Combat Arm's Units - page 2
by ncox1 | 2,330 Views | 20 Comments
This group has a very unique perspective in that the majority of military nurses are women and also that, well your women. Males nurses as well have a unique perspective in that you already service members. Very curious on... Read More
- 2Jan 28, '13 by athena55Still talking about double standards....so if two people "fool around" notwithstanding General Order # 1 et all, why is it that just the female is sent home in your unit? On my 2nd deployment (Iraq) I saw both sexes sent home r/t "conduct unbecoming". I guess it is ultimately up to the CDR.
Some of the women have been a distraction for some of the men in the unit? That tells me that those men in question are not professional soldiers.
From what I have been reading in the Army Times, the standards would not be lowered. In fact, in order to even think about the SORT, the woman in question must pass her PT with a minimum score of 270. (90 in each), and be able to drag a 180 lb dummy x number of feet, and - of course, be able to live in an asture environment.
Would I go out for something like that if I were younger? Hells Bells, yeah...
- 0Jan 29, '13 by ncox1Not being a woman and after my OB class I think of prolonged periods of time living out of rucks with no sanitation. Maybe a female can assure me otherwise but I'm not sure if that would be a problem with UTI's and such??? Again, I DON'T know so I am not stating that as a problem but more of a question.
Definitely agree with the physical standard changing, if your going combat arms then yes you need to demonstrate that you can pull a heavy person out of harms way just as well as the next Soldier/Marine next to you. I am Army but doesn't the Marine Corps have the same physical standards for PT tests cross genders?
This of course brings up the issue of selective service mandated for all 18yr old males. Should this be evaluated as well? I'm thinking not just because the "average" woman, even one who is fit might have a challenge on doing some of the requirements. I think the overall question to keep as a standard is "does this improve the combat effectiveness of the unit?"
If she can make it through infantry AIT, Airborne, Air Assault, and any other combat school with the same standards as their fellow infantryman then yes, absolutely.
- 0Jan 29, '13 by just_causeI agree, lets make it fair. I'm from a combat arms background as well.
First thing is to update the selective service act so it is mandatory for all females 18-30 to register and also eliminate that gender barrier. Then we can re-evaluate the public and political will behind this change and perhaps what is behind this political agenda.
- 3Jan 30, '13 by Enthused RNI'm all for having females register for the selective service; I think we all should serve our country especially in a time of great need when a draft becomes necessary (I suspect the only situation this would happen is WWIII). I don't think it would change people's minds though. I don't feel there is a hidden political agenda behind this. Women in the armed forces have been performing combat duties for the past 10 years in the last 2 wars and obviously they did a great job because a commission recommended that all formalities be removed so women can directly enlist in combat units. That's how I see it - the new regulation is basically just acknowledgement of what servicewoman have been doing for 10 years and it's removing a formality to the enlistment process. I think it's a momentous moment for our country and armed forces. 10, 20, 30+ years from now, I expect people to look back and think how strange and quaint it was for Americans in 2013 to think how a big deal it is for women to serve in combat ... especially when women have already been doing for sometime.
- 0Jan 30, '13 by NurseNedJust for the record, I am a retired US Army Veteran (1965-2000) RVN and DS.
I was a Hospital Chaplain (Yes I was not authorized a weapon - yes I hated it, I felt unprotected) (and Nursing Student - yeah, they razzed me, but I learned important stuff) in Desert Storm.
In my experience at Desert Storm, there were some who tried to get pregnant to be sent home - we were already "Short". It did not work. They acquired other "Command attention".
However - Yes Desert Storm was different than the Afghan-Iraq-Afghan decade (again IMO, and as Chaplain I was involved in several of these situations, as well as other types of Judicial and Non-judicial situations, by Command directive)
1. The female was sent home, not as punishment for her activities - but for the sake if the fetus, as well as for the attending issues of pregnancy. The combat theater is simply not set up to handle that.
2. When the pregnancy occurs in persons who have their spouse back home, there are UCMJ issues in play as well. Conduct Unbecoming has many ramifications a well.
3. And yes, the Commander decides which to pursue.
Re: Distraction? Not Professional? Those are contradistinctions.
You did not mention our (males') socializations as Protectors. That too may come into play re: distractions - also having next to nil to do with "Professional".
While I am at it - when did "Professional" come to mean one is a robot?
OK, never mind - this is a subjective mine field. End of subject.
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Personally - If a woman wants to go for it. Fine.
1. Just go without preconceived notions of special treatment.
2. Count the cost, personally, collectively and corporately - and please know that dragging a 180 dummy x number of feet during a PFT is way different than dragging a wounded soldier plus "Full Battle Rattle" any distance while bullets, looking for you, are flying around.
Let it be also noted here - In any Military Theater of Operations, All are expected to be Blood Supply for others - it is on your Dog Tags for that reason too.
Perhaps it would be good to read this, from a female Marine.
Some advice on women in combat from a female veteran « Hot Air
And yes, I have been in combat, in Vietnam '66-'67, both as a Army Aviator ("Spotter Plane" (L-19D with rocket pods)) pilot and on the ground in fire fights. Yes - adrenalin does help one do extraordinary things - sometimes good, sometimes not.
Please - enough with that "Double-Standards epithet - there are none for whom "double-standards" are not implied and applied.
And yes, while the kids (if you are not into your 70's, you are one of the kids . . . ) in there today are not in the same circumstances as we were in "My Army" - some better, some worse, some much worse. (All combat veterans have some version of this . . . :-)
Each theater has its own brand(s) of lethality - only variable is the probability.
That said, IMO, active combat is the most horrific circumstance one can experience, and the only thing I found helpful was to try to keep myself convinced - "It only happens to the other guy... he has it worse than I do".
I have long believed - since I was approaching 18 (1958 - OK?) that all 18 y/o's should pull military service, delayed only by College ROTC Contract, which then incurred an additional obligation.
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To all I can only say, May The Lord Bless and Keep you, and may you always give your best.
- 3Jan 30, '13 by traumaRUs, MSN, APRN, CNS AdminIm a USN Vet 1978-1980. I was in during the time when many ships went coed. That was supposed to be the end to civilization as we know it and guess what????????????? The world continued to spin........
- 0Jan 30, '13 by firemt23I would like to correct an error in your statement. A majority of military nurses are NOT women. Men in the nursing field outnumber women in the nursing field on active duty easily 2:1. This is not true of the Reserves, but men still outnumber the women. Women that graduate nursing school usually come from families that are well off and the military is usually not the option considered by those graduates unless extreme circumstances. I know the amount of nurses are predominantly male as I was a wardmaster in an ICU both at Ft. Sill Oklahoma and Ft. Lewis Washington and in field hospitals that were augmented by Reserve units. This is NOT all encompassing, but a gernerally true assessment. With today's economy everyone is needing to find a way to finance school and the number of women joining the military community and military medical community is growing. Now that the war in Iraq is all but complete and the war in Afghanistan not what it once was with respect to numbers, the amount of members leaving the military are greater and the numbers of women leaving are higher as they are looking to start families and do not want the thought of deploying pregnant or with a young child at home. That being said, my personal opinion is that women can do alot of the same tasks that a man can in a medical unit, but the job of a soldier is first and foremost a warfighter. Women are too precious and can be placed in positions where emotions can be a factor such as being captured, watching someone close to them being injured or killed, or even something as easy as having a requirement to shower more often than men. This is the reason why women should not be in combat arms positions and should stay in combat service support. This is just MY OPINION and not law or regulation.
Quote from ncox1This group has a very unique perspective in that the majority of military nurses are women and also that, well your women. Males nurses as well have a unique perspective in that you already service members.
Very curious on any strong thoughts on the pro's and con's of this new regulation that is being put in place. Thoughts?
- 0Jan 30, '13 by nytenurse65They have been there unofficially now they have the chance to allow them to compete for the same position that other contemporaries have. Having served for quite a few years have see good female soldiers passed over because they were lacking something that the male counterpart had the chance to obtain because the field was not open to females so go for and rock on.