Rudeness from EMTs and Paramedics

aloevera · Jan 9, 2008

I used to work at LTC facility for years as Sup. RN. I truly agree that EMS are valued, and truly needed for their expertise and training BUT whenever I called for transport and the majority of them (after I had done complete assessment and had everything written for them and all papers ready for transport) would re-do my assessments, question everything I had done, and on occasion, argued that they did not need to be sent out. I would argue that I had Dr. order to send out and that is final. I really had so many cocky, arrogant, nasty people that I decided to get out of that field. I now work in Mental Health and like it so much better. On the few times I have to send someone out, I can handle a few rude ones.

steven1534 · Jan 9, 2008

I used to work at LTC facility for years as Sup. RN. I truly agree that EMS are valued, and truly needed for their expertise and training BUT whenever I called for transport and the majority of them (after I had done complete assessment and had everything written for them and all papers ready for transport) would re-do my assessments, question everything I had done, and on occasion, argued that they did not need to be sent out. I would argue that I had Dr. order to send out and that is final. I really had so many cocky, arrogant, nasty people that I decided to get out of that field. I now work in Mental Health and like it so much better. On the few times I have to send someone out, I can handle a few rude ones.

Thankfully, this allows me to point out another example of how both sides, unfortunatly, do not understand each side. EMS providers of all levels are taught to assess and reassess every patient. Vitals eveny 15 minutes, at the most...and don't even take your best friend's word on what their assessment found. So, please, don't be offended if we re-do assessments...but I do apologize for those who who are arrogant. It may come from, as I mentioned earlier, the need and desire to operate independently (not 100%, because we need to go to the hospital eventually, but when we are out on the road...we are it)

Laughs-a-lot, RN · Jan 9, 2008

I work at a hospital on a med surg floor, and don't get the pleasure of dealing with this, but has anyone ever heard of better safe than sorry anyway. We have alot of frequent flyers from ECF's and what some ignorant people may view as just a little dehydration can lead to hyperkalemia, leading to dysrhythmias and so on. I can't believe they would act that way. so sorry to hear this.

steven1534 · Jan 9, 2008

I work at a hospital on a med surg floor, and don't get the pleasure of dealing with this, but has anyone ever heard of better safe than sorry anyway. We have alot of frequent flyers from ECF's and what some ignorant people may view as just a little dehydration can lead to hyperkalemia, leading to dysrhythmias and so on. I can't believe they would act that way. so sorry to hear this.

Some people operate on the principal of "better safe than sorry" and do the assessment and treat altered mental status as it is and as it should be...others treat it as just another effin drunk. Washington D.C. Fire and EMS along with Howard University Hospital made the wrong decision...

href=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/20/AR2007122002148.html

I think at 8 pages, most of us can agree that some EMTs and Paramedics are rude and ignorant, while others are highly educated. We can also agree that some nurses are excellent, and some just plan suck. Oh, and I am definitely sure that we can take a look at some physicians who really are amazing...but there are some out there who are a few flowers short of a bouquet too. The same applies to teachers, drivers, salesmen, actors, chefs, fast food clerks........

So anyways, my name is Steven, and if we ever meet I hope that you judge me based on my individual merits and not as "just another one of those paramedics..."

lanstanLVN · Jan 9, 2008

I think one of the problems concerns company policies. For instance the company I work for has been sued multiple times by greedy family members who seize a loophole and get millions of dollars. Because of this, the company has set in place certain policies that dictate that nursing staff send folks out to the acute hospital for minor things like an unwitnessed fall - even if there is no apparent injuries. Granted, we all make mistakes, but come on!! When there is no obvious trauma, it is frustrating that I have to do the paperwork to send them out, then some EMT comes in and gives me a hard time about it. I can only explain the policy, admit that it may seem foolish, but if the resident is not transferred, I will have to call their supervisor, and have our administrator get in touch with their supervisor. So, I guess we could point a finger at the general public as well. Just a thought.....

nrse77 · Jan 9, 2008

I'm a nurse at a nursing home, I've never have had a real problem with paramedics. I do know we are both very busy professions, I understand you have other pick ups and I have many other residents to attends to as the above student has noticed so neither of us has time for the other not to be unorganized for not ready for the other. I believe that's where most of the misunderstanding comes in at. I hear a lot of other nurses where I work c/o paramedics and I believe it's because when they arrive the nurse is not ready for them yet. She has sometimes 40-50 pts and the paramedic has that one to worry about at that moment. Parmedics get the worst of all calls I have nothing but respect for them!

tkg123 · Jan 9, 2008

Personally, I have met many outstanding EMT's and Paramedics. I think that we would all do well to remember that we are on the same team and all serve a purpose in healthcare. No one really outranks everyone else because we all have our specialties and we all have a job to do. It is also important not to generalize. You can always blame a particular person for being rude but it is not because they are EMT's or Paramedics, it is often just because that particular person is rude. I have met plenty of rude nurses!!

Lexxie, LPN · Jan 10, 2008

It is also important not to generalize. You can always blame a particular person for being rude but it is not because they are EMT's or Paramedics, it is often just because that particular person is rude. I have met plenty of rude nurses!!

So true! The people I know in EMS want the blood & guts stuff.. getting a call to transport granny to the ER for something "stupid" takes them out of service for that "good" call ..that may or may not happen anyway. Those are the EMTs/Medics that seem to be rude to LTC staff.

lpn98 · Jan 10, 2008

I have been in LTC for 16 years (6 as a CNA & 10 as an LPN). It depends on the EMS team some are very nice and treat you as if you know what you are doing. But there are the others that treat you as if you don't know what you are doing. The good thing about being in LTC is that we know these patients and most of the time can tell when something is wrong with them. The cocky EMT's and paramedics don't know these people and I have reminded them of that on several occasions when they want to start questioning me. I also remind them that I have a physicians order to send them to the ER. All they have to do is come get them and drop them off. Then they are done with the whole thing.

loveylilly · Jan 11, 2008

i'm a lpn @ a nursing home and we always have a problem out of 2 emts whenever we call for them to take a resident to the hosp. it's like all of a sudden they become the doctor. for instance just yesterday i had a pt. whom i've had on my hall since he'd been there has hx of copd,chf,cad and cont to smoke like crazy...anyway he's in his doorway sweating profusely,pale,can barely catch his breath already on o2. call paramedics b/c of his present state and med. hx and the first thing the guy says is you called me for this pt. sitting on the side of the bed..i said yes i did...he had instant attitude but took him to the hosp. same emt called me back to say i'm glad you called us b/c his resp. distess was secondary to his heart problems. later he called to tell me that he's on a vent...i'm like yeah he's also in icu..he tells me oh i didnt know that you knew...i'm like yeah i keep a check on my pts. needless to say say i was p.o'd but i think i handled it quite well

medic6070 · Jan 11, 2008

Too many times to count!!! I thought it was just where I live! Recently we had a78 year old man in respiratory distress. The ambulance arrived to transport him to the ER, received another call and then proceeded to leave to answer that call. It took them a half an hour to return to transport our resident!!! Fortunately we had been able to keep him stable until they returned. Maybe they responded to the other call because it was someone younger...who knows! I wanted to turn them in, but didn't know where to turn!! :angryfire

Maybe they left to go work a code or a motor vehicle accident. How many ambulances does your community have available per shift? I live in a small rural town, we have two (2) ambulances on duty for schedueled as well as non-schedueled transports and 911 calls. one staffed by an EMT and a Paramedic the other by two EMT's.If the call the ambulance you called for was dispatched as more life threatening, it's a simple matter of triage. I have been a Paramedic for the last seven years and an EMT for 19 years before that. I am now beginning the ASN nursing program at a local community college. This is a two sided issue and will never go away. Perhaps ride alongs would help others (not just Long Term Care Nurses) to see things from a different perspective as well as having Skilled Nursing Facility clinical rotations included in EMS training. We all just need to remember that it is all about our patients not ourselves. Treat others how you would like to be treated and work together to take care of our patient.

:cheers:

opus13 · Jan 11, 2008

Just to add my two cents. I've been in EMS for 18yrs and a paramedic for 12yrs and soon to be an RN. The problems I've seen are both ways, from the EMT who says " I didn't get into this to shuttle old people" to the nurse who says "you just need to take the pt to the hospital, you don't need to know whats wrong with the pt." Both points of view are very wrong.

I would like to know what kind of ems systems give ltc nurses the most problems (volunteer, fire based, municipal or private commercial), I have noticed over the years that the only ones that really get it are the emt's and paramedics that work for a paid service (commercial) that does both 911 and non emergent calls. Too many people want to be the hero and don't understand that transporting scared grandma to her MD appointment or Nursing facility with caring and compassion makes you a hero to the pt and their family. Ems professionals realize that the are part of healthcare not just an emergency service. There are also people who get into nursing for the "always have a job reason" I know a few. The ignorance both ways while unintentional is staggering part of it is that in every textbook EMS is left out of the definition of the healthcare team (something I find very insulting).

Now in the EMS community doing alot of routine calls ie transfers is not why most of us got into EMS myself included, but over the years I've found that leaving the pt and family with a good feeling and hopefully keeping the pt stable or improving the pt's condition is what it is all about. Treating injuries is a very important but small part.

Now any nurse in the Bridgeport, CT area that wants to do a ride along in a high volume system drop me a line, all are welcome.

Karl Emt-P