Will I get in trouble ? ? ?

[Congababe13]

Hello,

I am a 2nd yr nursing student, I graduate in May. I had an OR observation

yesterday and was able to watch an endo lap chole. I may add that I was very

excited as my goal is to become an OR nurse.

When the gallbladder became visible on the monitor I took a picture of it with

my cell phone. The picture only included the endo monitor with NO identifiable

info on it. Is this a HIPPA violation? I was excited and didn't think anything

about taking a pic of the gallbladder on the monitor. The nurse seen me take

the picture and immediately told me that was not allowed and that I needed to

delete the picture, which I did.

Upon returning to the floor my clinical instructor had received a phone call from the hospitals edu department letting her know that they need to see me and to bring my phone. I went and explained what had happened, show them my phone to prove that the pic had in fact been deleted and I was told that was okay, I' not in trouble.

Today I get an email from the Head of Nursing at my school saying that I need

to come in and see her in the morning before I go to class. Can I be kicked out

of the program for this? She stated in the email that it was a HIPPA violation

but everything I can find states that it's not a violation as long as there is

not any identifiable information related to the patient.

Does anyone have any suggestions and/or advice about this situation or how to

handle my meeting at school tomorrow morning? Any information or suggestions

would be greatly appreciated . . . I did not mean any harm; I was just excited

to see the gallbladder come up on the monitor

[erinmarie320]

I had to find the nursing student placenta story. Turns out her school did in fact throw her out but she sued and won

Yes, luckily for her the judge ruled in her favor as it was apparent that she did not mean any harm and had the most innocent of motives. However, there is no denying the struggle she went through over this seemingly innocent action, and the setbacks she experienced because of it.

I hope everything works out for OP, and if so this can turn into a valuable lesson and positive learning experience to shape his/her future career as an RN :)

[Ntheboat2]

I don't think you'll be kicked out of the program. The school is always worried about the relationship they have with each facility. When students do stupid things it makes the administrators in the hospital cringe at the thought of having more students. I don't think the fact that it was or was not a HIPAA violation is the real issue (although I don't think it was a violation).

It probably does make everyone question your common sense and ability to make judgement calls. That's much of what nursing is based on - judgement calls. How many times did your school faculty say, "NO CELL PHONES IN PATIENT CARE AREAS." They DRILLED that into our heads at my school. I wouldn't go in there and say, "The nurses were texting and had their phones out." They don't care. You're a student, not a nurse. You're a liability, not an asset.

There are some preceptors who like having students, but for the most part students are just more bodies to be in the way. Plus, they're just another set of eyes criticizing every move you make. Nobody wants students around anyway. The school wants you to go there and basically be invisible. Taking a picture throws up flags...you were not invisible. Now the administration at the hospital is going to wonder why the school isn't telling students to keep their phones up. If I were your instructor, and I had told you 500 times not to have your phone out, I'd be highly ticked off that someone might think I didn't do my job as an instructor.

If I were you then I would just apologize, say how thoughtless it was, and apologize some more. You really should know better at this point. This is freshman behavior, and even then it would be unacceptable.

[Ntheboat2]

I had to find the nursing student placenta story. Turns out her school did in fact throw her out but she sued and won:

Chicago intellectual property | Facebook photo privacy | @internetcases

In any case, be prepared for the worst although I do not agree that taking a picture of an organ is a HIPAA violation. Not the best thought process, but not a violation.

Good luck tomorrow.

Sent from my iPhone using allnurses.com

I heard about a student who used a thumb drive at a VA facility (federal property) and got into hot water over it. I don't remember ever being warned about putting a disk or USB in at a facility, but they sure warned us after that. He got his grade dropped, but apparently the administration of the hospital wanted him thrown out of the program!

[Ntheboat2]

Depending on facility policy (which your school and its students are required to follow) and the school policy, they may be well within their rights to dismiss you from the program. Outside factors that may contribute to your lack in judgement really don't matter; all students have outside factors of some kind affecting them.

And please, do not refer to yourself as an excellent nurse. You are a student who does not have a nursing license; therefore you are not a nurse of any kind yet. That may seem harsh, but there are states that protect the title nurse and there can be legal penalties for calling yourself a nurse without holding the license.

I agree! I graduate next month, already have a job, and just went out and bought my "RN color scrubs" for training, but I STILL don't call myself a nurse! I haven't passed the NCLEX yet. Until I officially get my results, I'm not a nurse! There were a bunch of purses/bags lying around in the lab a couple weeks ago and one very nice bag had "NURSE" monogrammed across the front. I was sitting near it and people started complimenting it and thought it was mine. I was like, "No, it's not mine. It is pretty, but I'm not a nurse yet."

[cathering, ADN, BSN, MSN, APRN, NP]

Good luck! I hope all goes well and they let u continue with the program as you've come so far. Please keep us posted!

[tigerlogic]

Seriously. No pictures ever. (or, you know, unless there is a professional reason). Your best bet is probably humbly explaining what you learned and how you won't push this boundary again.

[lemmyg]

I am so sorry, what a terrible situation to be in.

It reminded me of a story I read in the news a while back about a care aide that took a pictue of an elderly, obese resident at the care home where he worked, I guess because it was so interesting or gross or something.

Not to say that what you did was that bad, but still there was some sort of seperation from the person and their body for you to make you feel like it was okay. If that was you or your mother or loved one that had to go in for a serious surgery, perhaps maybe due to a life threatening or altering disease, would you want student snapping personal photos because they thought the patient's organs were cool?

You seem to repeat that there was nothing to identify the patient but that may not be the point, it was still a violation of privacy.

It was so innocent though, I really hope you can go on. good luck

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

Everything that I have found in regards to HIPAA states that a violation includes individual identifiable information, which there was not & the one picture was deleted before leaving the OR.

Im in no way trying to imply that I did no wrong but I do believe that being removed from the program seems pretty harsh for a student that has never had a unsat anything, no write ups, no probations. I have a lot going on right now, Ive been on prednisone for almost 2 months, Im sleep deprived & I have a son who is getting ready to graduate + some other things that may contribute to my severe lack in judgement, which by the way says nothing about my character or the kind of nurse I will be, I am an excellent nurse !

When I left the OR the OR manager wrote down her name for me to use as a reference when applying to the OR. I just wish everything would be taken into consideration & not just this incident . . . Such a hopeless feeling !

You will find that different facilities will have their own individual policies and interpretations of HIPAA and will act upon them at their discretion. It is still a "breach of confidentiality" or "conduct unbecoming" issue. It doesn't matter that the picture was deleted before you left the OR....you still took the picture. The manager of the OR could take out an advertisement for you and it still doesn't erase what you did was wrong.

You are at the end of your school and should have known better. You have "20 years" of "nursing experience" as stated on your profile......you really should have known better. This is a big deal. I also need to help you on another small issue.

I am an excellent nurse !

You are not a nurse. You have not passed your boards and you don't have a license. You are not a nurse. Depending on your state....many state have passed state legislation that protects the title nurse and makes it illegal for anyone without a license to represent themselves as a nurse.

Title "Nurse" Protection

Restricting use of the title "nurse" to only those individuals who have fulfilled the requirements for licensure as outlined in each state's nurse practice act is a protection for the public against unethical, unscrupulous, and incompetent practitioners. Nurse practice acts describe entry level qualifications such as education, practice standards and code of conduct for continued privilege to practice nursing. Limiting use of the title "nurse" to only those who have satisfied the licensure requirements ensures the protection the public deserves.

At least 37 states are known to have language in their Nurse Practice Act; either explicit in restricting use of the title "nurse" to only those who are licensed or implicit language restricting use of any words implying the individual is a licensed nurse.....

AR, AZ, CA, CO, DE, FL, GA, HI, ID, IL, KS, KY, MD, MN, MS, MO, MT, NE, NV, NM, NY, NC, ND, OK, OR, RI, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, VT, WA, WV, WI, WY http://nursingworld.org/MainMenuCategories/Policy-Advocacy/State/Legislative-Agenda-Reports/State-TitleNurse/default.aspx

I know it may seem insignificant but it is illegal in many states......you not knowing it is illegal won't make it any less illegal.

Unfortunately.....nursing doesn't care what is going on in your personal life, you make a mistake, it's a mistake...no excuses. You need to be responsible at all times. Nurses work sleep deprived ALL the time....ask any night nurse with small children.....you still are not allowed to make mistakes. The expectation is for "perfection" at all times. I know technically that doesn't make sense......but, An airline pilot can't miss the runway because their wife is angry at them. A police officer can't shoot you at a traffic stop because they have they flu and are crabby. You just should not be taking pictures of the patients anything for any reason.

I worked for a long time on steroids....high dose steroids for a neuro muscular disorder (doses of 80mgs a day and 2-5 grams IV intermittently) as well as a long list of other meds....we are still accountable for our actions.

I feel so bad for you, I really do......I pray they don't expel you from the program....I really do. But prepare yourself for the worst. I think you need to contact your student malpractice and ask them advice on how to fight this if you get expelled.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

[cathering, ADN, BSN, MSN, APRN, NP]

I think since the person said come BEFORE ur clinical, I think you'll just get a serious discipline and given another chance. If they wanted u out, I think they would have met u ASAP to expel you. What do you think? It's just my opinion. The situation seems serious, hoping for the best for you.

[Anoetos, BSN, RN]

Yeah, without the written permission of the facility and, most importantly, the patient, this is illegal.

I don't want to go overboard, but I have to say too that I am wondering about your judgment. Why would you even think to do this or that it was ok?

[BloomNurseRN, ASN, BSN, RN]

If you google "nursing student placenta", you can find the story of a girl who paid a hefty price for her over zealous, and earnestly and innocently motivated, interest in her clinical placement.

Interestingly enough she was actually allowed back in to school, as well as the three others expelled. Just thought it was an interesting case to follow. Update: Taking a Photo with a Placenta Won't Get You Kicked Out of Nursing School - Forbes

Of course that was different in the fact that the instructor knew she was taking the pictures and in this case the instructor did not know, nor were the nurses happy about it happening.

[SummitRN, BSN, RN]

This nursing student screwed up.

No doubt what this student did was arguably unethical and probably a violation of school and/or facility policy. This student may have even violated a state privacy law.

IANAL, but there are a lot of nurses and students in this thread who think they understand HIPAA who clearly do not. About 80%...

I see the typical emotional but ignorant reaction: "that FEELS like a privacy violation, therefor HIPAA violation!" At least Google "Protected Health Information" and educate yourself. You'll quickly understand that this is NOT a HIPAA violation because there was no PHI, no ability to identify the patient from the picture.