Students who don't belong, being pulled through LPN program (long rant)

Lisa CCU RN, RN · Nov 16, 2005

Just thought I'd vent a little about this. I always thought that nursing school was going to be a real "trial by fire". It was such a hassle to get in, between all the paperwork and testing, and the school only selecting 50 students out of 600+ applicants. We had so many lectures on attendance, appearance, academics, etc. etc. shoved down our throat at orientation, I thought I'd mistakenly joined the military.
However, a few months down the road, on into the second quarter, it's a totally different story. 43 out of the 50 made it to the second quarter. ZERO people failed. The only people that are out are the ones that chose to quit. Now, don't get me wrong. I don't WANT to see anyone left behind, but it just doesn't sound right that 100% of the class (that didn't outright quit) passed.
In this quarter, we're doing Pharmacology and Administration of Medication. Lots of math. Not necessarily *hard* math (the hardest part for me is apothecary conversions), but it's a lot of math. At LEAST half of the class had SERIOUS problems with such simple concepts as moving decimals and converting grams to milligrams. They can't do these VERY BASIC equations, even though they somehow managed to pass the high school-level NET entrance exam.
Now, get this. We have a med math exam that we have to pass with 100% before we're able to give meds in clinicals. We have 5 tries at the exam before we're out of the program. How many people passed the exam on the first try? 100%! The same people who couldn't figure out that 0.01 times 10 is 0.1 were able to pass a med math exam with 100% on their first try? Give me a break!
And that's not the worst of it. Open book and open discussion exams have become commonplace. And by "open discussion", I mean the instructor literally giving us the answers to about 25% of the exam.
We're going to clinicals giving meds next week, and we have students who can't even do basic freaking math that are going to be drawing up injections and figuring pill dosages. I can only pray that our clinical site is going to be doing unidose so we won't be able to screw it up.
Now, here's where it gets interesting. I'm pretty sure I know why people are being pulled through this time. We have a new Nursing Dept Coordinator. She was brought in because the last 2 coordinators were only achieving about a 15-20% course pass rate (of course, NCLEX pass rates for those classes were 100%). This reason was told to our class by the coordinator herself. So, her goal is to get over 75% pass rate.
But now, I see exactly how she's going to get her 75% pass rate. By holding everyone's hand all the way through the program. I can only HOPE that the NCLEX will weed these people out. And then, when the NCLEX pass rate for the program drops to 20%, I wonder what the Board is going to think.
It's getting to the point where I'm seriously considering reporting this activity to the Board. God forbid these students somehow manage to pass the NCLEX by some miracle, only to kill a patient right after they clear orientation. The only thing that's stopping me is that I know if the Board does an investigation, the school will likely lose their accreditation, which means I'll have to start all over again.
Again, don't get me wrong. I don't want to see any particular person fail. But, not everyone was meant to be a nurse. It's as simple as that. Desire is not enough. If desire were enough, I'd be swimming in gold doubloons right now. If you can't figure out that 0.01 times 10 is 0.1, then you may need to think about another profession.

Did you ever think maybe it is not the simple math problems that are slipping everyone up, but the stress of being put on the spot? If you have ten problems to do and you can only miss one, as another poster indicated is the case in their program, maybe they are just under pressure. If I knew only one problem stood between me and my staying in school, I'd be stressed too.

FirstYear2005 · Nov 16, 2005

I say just do your part in nursing school, learn as much as possible and don't worry about other students. frankly i don't see how it is any of your business.

studentnurserachel · Nov 17, 2005

I have learned to keep my mouth shut about stuff like this. It just comes off as sour grapes. I have in the past felt a little resentful that I work my butt off and get really good grades and other people have been coaxed along and skate by with the minimum 80% to pass and that only with a little help (extra points thrown in at the end of semester). I no longer feel that way, I actually feel bad for the students who have been pulled through the program this way because we are now in our second to last semester and it seems like the powers that be have decided its time to cut the dead wood. They are throwing it at us like never before and are bragging that they expect the highest grades on the final exam to be around 80 (which is just passing for us). Those people who probably should have been cut out early are instead facing being eliminated when they are one semester away from graduation, with absolutely nothing to show for their effort.

As a sidenote, math does not make a nurse. You seem very critical of the students who do poorly on math. I have always done great on math, even the advanced calculations, but there are other things that other people show me up on. After spending time tutoring some of my classmates, I realized that it is not like these people are deliberately not getting the math, some people understand it, some don't. As long as they do pass the math, I would give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they studied really hard. As far as the hand-holding, you just need to worry about you. We had an instructor our 2nd semester who put asterisks next to everything on the powerpoint that was going to be on the test, there were invariably 50 asterisks for 50 questions. They're not doing anyone any favors, but you've just got to rise above it and make sure you're not just studying the test.

namorce · Nov 17, 2005

Jeez guys where do you all got to school?

The nursing program I went to was extremely tough. There were no open book, retake tests. You had to pass everything with atleast 80% no exceptions. Clinicals were tough, we were grilled by our instructors and before passing any medications we were expected to write them up , including what they were , their actions, administration routes and adverse effects. We started with 40 students and my graduation classes was 33.

It sounds like these are overall poor nursing programs and if you are not satisfied , you should either bring it up to the program director and if all else fails , seek another nursing program.

I am not judging anyone and I do not have the right to say what someone should do with their lives, but I remember nursing school being a nightmare. But I am also grateful that it was hard because it helped shape me into an excellent registered nurse.

Good luck,

ERoman RN

nurse4theplanet, RN · Nov 17, 2005

My school also uses the Net Exam. But only one difference they told us to bring a caculator. So how many could pass without a caculator? You know when it comes to testing in school your not going to be able to use your caculator.

We always got to use a calculator in my ADN pharm class and for pharm questions on our exam...the rationale being that in the real world you will have a calculator available and it is the best way to accurately do the computations...but if we do not show all our work we do not get credit for a right answer. This is pretty fair to me.

nurse4theplanet, RN · Nov 17, 2005

Did you ever think maybe it is not the simple math problems that are slipping everyone up, but the stress of being put on the spot? If you have ten problems to do and you can only miss one, as another poster indicated is the case in their program, maybe they are just under pressure. If I knew only one problem stood between me and my staying in school, I'd be stressed too.

No offense to your post, but I think that is the POINT of a ten question test with such a marginal chance of error/failing...to see those who will crack under pressure or not prepare themselves adequately...nursing is full of pressure, quick decisions, and being able to critically think on your feet.

Murse901, MSN, RN · Nov 18, 2005

No offense to your post, but I think that is the POINT of a ten question test with such a marginal chance of error/failing...to see those who will crack under pressure or not prepare themselves adequately...nursing is full of pressure, quick decisions, and being able to critically think on your feet.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. You can't find a whole lot of nursing jobs where you're just sitting on your butt under zero pressure.

The 100% requirement on the test is there because you don't want nurses making med errors. If 90% was "good enough" on medication accuracy, how many people would die as a result?

I'm amazed at the number of people who think that I shouldn't have an opinion on my school or classmates. I'm paying hard-earned money to sit in class for days at a time while waiting for others to catch up. If this were a business administration or a computer science program, would the same be acceptable? No.

With the number of people who are turned away from nursing programs on a constant basis, why is crap like this acceptable?

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Nov 18, 2005

I'm amazed at the number of people who think that I shouldn't have an opinion on my school or classmates.

I don't recall anyone saying you shouldn't have an opinion, i recall a few saying that it's nine of your business, it's not your decision, it's not up to you, this is up to your instructors, etc.

If this is such a problem to you, talk to the proper people about it. Things are only accepted when people allow it to be accepted.

nurse4theplanet, RN · Nov 18, 2005

Don,

I am glad you have an oppinion about your classmates performance and the standards set by your program. Just be careful not to be too critical and let it become a personal issue with the students. The instructors are to blame. I have read all your posts and I would be EXTREMELY dissatisfied with your program as well. I do agree with Marie...you should definitely bring this up the channels and voice your concerns.

daisy9980 · Nov 19, 2005

I am only in the LPN Program here on Long Island

First we had to take the NET. Some people applied to the Full time day program, those spots were reserved for people who scored highest on their NET. Then the PT night program. WE also had to have an interview then the program admin. decided who would be joining the program. I am in Full time days. It is a rapid quick program. We are starting Pharm monday. Our school mandates you to after school math if your score wasn't that high in Math. This is because they don't want to slow down everyone else in FTD and waste time on things we were told all summer to get prepared for. We don't wait for others to get it for to long. It is assumed if you were accepted that you are able to figure out the med formula and IV drip rate. I don't know. That is just how it is here. Thought I would share :)

Tracy

Lisa CCU RN, RN · Nov 21, 2005

No offense to your post, but I think that is the POINT of a ten question test with such a marginal chance of error/failing...to see those who will crack under pressure or not prepare themselves adequately...nursing is full of pressure, quick decisions, and being able to critically think on your feet.

You are exactly right. All I was pointing out was I don't think anyone who can graduate high school or pass the GED or however you got your diploma can NOT do simple conversions. I mean how hard is it to slide a decimal to the left or right? I am simply pointing out that maybe the underlying reason for some people's failure on dosage tests is the PRESSURE rather than the inability to do the work.

The way the OP and others put it, these people are incapable of doing the work.

mayzeegrl · Nov 21, 2005

I can relate to your fears and concerns. When I went to school, people were weeded out each quarter and the class got smaller and smaller each time. But, some of the ones that remained should have been the ones weeded out because they did not take nursing seriously and I know for sure that one of them couldn't have passed because almost every anatomy test she took was a failing grade for her. However, her mother was contributing funds to the nursing school, so I think the school let her slip through. what it comes down to is that each student will have to pass their boards or they won't be able to practice. What's even sadder is that some of the nurses I have worked with don't even know how to do a blood pressure. and, it really doesn't matter what school one goes to or the grades as another poster mentioned. All you can really do is worry about yourself and focus on doing a good job in school and when you become a nurse.