The "Nursing Games" claims it's first victims... - Page 5

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  1. Guide
    Sep 25, '12 by
    Quote from PatriciaJ
    I usually don't post but just wanted to say something. I realize that there are some people who understand word problems better than others and they don't understand why people have so much trouble with these types of questions. We all had to pass at least College Algebra to get into the Nursing program. But writing how they should seek alternate employment and have no business being nurses, I don't agree. I don't think they spend enough time on these types of questions in class. Word problems are the real word, it's what we all use in life, but instead they focus on other things. Yes some people are better at it than others, but it can be learned.

    Why not offer tips on how to figure out problems? Are there websites, is there tutoring available, are there classes that you think will help them that they can take before going into nursing school? I have not started nursing school yet, but instead of saying "they don't deserve to be in the program because they can't pass dosage tests" why not offer advice to help them?
    Yes, schools should point students in a direction where they might find help.

    However, it's not the job of a nursing program to teach grade school math. There is too much actual nursing to be taught to take up nursing faculty time and effort to teach things that students should have learned when they were 10-12 years old. Schools have a need, right, and obligation to set admission standards -- a level of performance in basic knowledge and skills that it can expect its students to have BEFORE THEY START college-level courses. Junior-high level math is one of those things that every student should be able to do before being admitted into a nursing program.
    texasmum, Shorty11, ProfRN4, and 1 other like this.
  2. Sep 25, '12 by
    Well it's not really grade school math, it's more complex, a 10 year old would not be able to solve this problem. It's one thing to do a quadratic equation, it's another to know what to do with a complex word problem. I'm not saying that the nursing program needs to spend all their time teaching it and yes it is the responsibilty of the student to learn it anyway they possibly can. All I'm saying is that there are people who may have trouble with these types of problems, they are reading everyone's posts and I think it's a good idea to offer advice or tips on how they can conquer it. I like to be positive and think if you put the work in and practice as much as you can, then you can learn anything.
  3. Sep 25, '12 by
    There are several threads going on this subject, but nowhere have I seen anyone say that people who don't pass the first time should find another career. What I have seen, several times, is comments along the lines of, "If they take a dosage calc class, get tutoring, etc., and STILL can't pass a dosage calc test, THEN they need to think about another line of work."

    And there are countless posts and threads with suggestions of books and websites where people can go for more help.

    The fact of the matter is, everyone has different skill sets. Some people are gifted with athletic talent. Some people are musically inclined. Some people have good grammar skills. Some people are good with animals. And some people, while they may be excellent "caregivers" when it comes to people skills, they just will never be able to figure out how to figure out dosage calculations. And the hard fact of the matter is, if you can't safely administer drugs, you can't safely be a nurse. Some people, no matter how much extra effort they put in, will just never "get it".

    If I wanted to be a model, I would be S.O.L. because I'm short, fat, freckled, and have frizzy curly hair. Ditto for tennis pro, gymnast, WNBA star, etc. The cold hard fact of the matter is that I'm not well-suited to that type of career. Just like someone who can't do basic math isn't well-suited to a career that relies upon the ability to competently compute dosage calculations. And someone who is allergic to cats and dogs is going to have a rough time being a veterinarian. And someone who is quadriplegic isn't going to be able to do neurosurgery.
    jtboog2003, Shorty11, ProfRN4, and 3 others like this.
  4. Sep 25, '12 by
    Quote from Julesmama28
    We have pharm one and two, a whole year in our BSN program. To be admitted, we have to have passed statistics and get 85% or better on the entrance exam. We are doing dimensional analysis and somewhat complex med math already.
    Dimensional analysis is the key. This is what I was taught in my math for meds class and it has been invaluable. I use it everyday I work and often in regular life too. Awesome method.

    Sent from my iPhone using allnurses.com
    Shorty11 likes this.
  5. Sep 25, '12 by
    Dosage errors are dangerous, so I understand why people are being failed for not passing a dosage calculations test. On the other hand, if dosage calculation specifically is not being taught, it seems unfair. Some people have difficulty with concepts that aren't familiar to them. Just because you can perform basic algebra, or even easily perform word problems does not mean you can perform dimensional analysis. Personally, I probably would not understand dimensional analysis as it was taught in my program had I not done dosage calculations for veterinary medicine. Even with some experience, I was able to come up with the answers, then would have to "figure out" ho to write the dimensional analysis equations until it all clicked.

    The bottom line is, you aren't able to make changes to your program as you go through it. If instruction isn't available for dosage calc., go to outside sources to help yourself-the internet, books, a nurse, etc. You, as a student, are expected to learn the material presented to you. Whether or not the material is presented in a way that facilitates learning is another story. You ARE able to make a difference for those who will come after you. Most schools offer the opportunity to evaluate a class or program at the end of each term-leave honest critique and make it CLEAR that more instruction needs to be given over dosage calculation, or any other topic that you feel was inadequately taught.
  6. Guide
    Sep 25, '12 by
    Quote from PatriciaJ
    Well it's not really grade school math, it's more complex, a 10 year old would not be able to solve this problem. It's one thing to do a quadratic equation, it's another to know what to do with a complex word problem.
    I've been a nurse for 35 years and have never used any math that wasn't basic add, subtract, multiply, or divide -- or understand basic fractions. I had learned all of that by 5th grade. As for them being "word problems" ... well ... that's just logic. And we had word problems in grade school, too.

    I'll give you that people may need to review a book, a few examples, etc. to get used to the types of situations described by the "word problems" -- but that shouldn't require a whole course or much effort on the part of the faculty. There are all sorts of self-study books people can buy, etc. If college level students can't logically think their way through some basic scenarios, they should delay college until they do the necessary remedial work.
    metal_m0nk and ProfRN4 like this.
  7. Sep 25, '12 by
    Yea this happened to me last week, but thank God I get to return in the spring, I was so devastated I cried so much I had a HEAD ACHE for 2 days. Dont give up all is not lost.

    Quote from Klimpys
    I posted on another thread recently how nursing school is like "The Hunger Games." Today was a particularly rough day. I heard the cannon sound for several of my fellow classmates. They failed the required drug calculation test and have been dismissed from the program. I feel so sad for them. It just really, really suck to have put in so much time and hard work, not to mention money, to be admitted into the program and then get dropped the first month. I can still see the tears. Blerg!
  8. Sep 27, '12 by
    I sympathize, but at the same time, would you want a nurse caring for your loved ones if he or she was incapable of doing basic math? I can't say that in my nursing classes, because even some of my close friends struggle with it. But in the long run, it is a necessary skill. You cannot always trust the computer, or the pharmacist, or the doctor.

    My school held a few math classes, then allowed you to take the math test three times with a remedial class after the first two fails. If they aren't offering remediation, then I would say it is unfair, because some people truly are unfamiliar the with technique. But I stand firm with the teachers who say you have to pass.
  9. Sep 28, '12 by
    Well I kind of understand your frustration. My school didn't teach much about dosage calc's before we ahd to be tested on them but we had a lot of help available in our lab if we wanted it. I utilized that and it helped. Drug calcs have become my favorite questions on exams because there is only 1 right answer not 4 rights answers that you need to choose the best one. I also don't know why they dont teach dimensional analysis. I love this because it always works for everything. You just need to know it and you're good, everythign works.
    Swellz likes this.
  10. Asst. Admin
    Sep 28, '12 by
    There needs to be no room for error on math for dosage questions......in the real world med erreors are not allowed and 100% correctness 100% of the time is required but the Instructors need to teach it properly first. It should be it's own course along with pharmacology.
    Shorty11 likes this.