New Diversity Criteria for Admission...what to make of that? - page 7

OK all, I just got a letter from my school last night that states they are instituting a new criteria of "diversity" for admission to all programs. I am applying for ADN in August for the January... Read More

  1. by   Plagueis
    While some may claim that diversity means people of different ages, economic background, and from different parts of the country, it does seem that it primarily refers to racial minorities. I do think it is important for colleges, and for students, to be around people different from themselves. However, I have mixed feelings about accepting minorities with lower scores and grades in order to increase "diversity." First is the assumption that blacks always have lower scores than whites, which seems to be the idea about affirmative action in admissions., so they need "extra" help to get in.
    Also, many colleges admit student athletes with lower grades, and they have preferences for children of alumni (legacies), politicians, and celebrities. Where is the criticism about merit in those cases? I keep reading here about minorities being given lower standards in jobs based on employment test scores, but what companies actually do this? Do they have a paper that states that whites have to score A, and blacks have to score B (a lower score) in order to be hired? I don't like the idea of lowering standards, but if college admissions are to based on test scores and grades alone, then colleges should stop admitting nationally-ranked athletes with lower grades, and they should stop giving preferences to well-connected students.
  2. by   smk1
    Quote from Tommybabe
    While some may claim that diversity means people of different ages, economic background, and from different parts of the country, it does seem that it primarily refers to racial minorities. I do think it is important for colleges, and for students, to be around people different from themselves. However, I have mixed feelings about accepting minorities with lower scores and grades in order to increase "diversity." First is the assumption that blacks always have lower scores than whites, which seems to be the idea about affirmative action in admissions., so they need "extra" help to get in.
    Also, many colleges admit student athletes with lower grades, and they have preferences for children of alumni (legacies), politicians, and celebrities. Where is the criticism about merit in those cases? I keep reading here about minorities being given lower standards in jobs based on employment test scores, but what companies actually do this? Do they have a paper that states that whites have to score A, and blacks have to score B (a lower score) in order to be hired? I don't like the idea of lowering standards, but if college admissions are to based on test scores and grades alone, then colleges should stop admitting nationally-ranked athletes with lower grades, and they should stop giving preferences to well-connected students.


    I agree. I always find it so interesting that people get so worked up about diversity or AA admissions, yet don't blink an eye over legacy, athlete admissions. :uhoh21: Also as far as AA is concerned in practice, racial minorities do not receive the most benefit across the board. Actually white females reap more of the benefits of AA. Difficult subject to get into. What i dislike most, is the idea that racial minorities are just up to their ears in financial aid, grade assistance and job and college offers. Just isn't so.
  3. by   alexillytom
    Quote from SMK1
    [/B]

    I agree. I always find it so interesting that people get so worked up about diversity or AA admissions, yet don't blink an eye over legacy, athlete admissions. :uhoh21: Also as far as AA is concerned in practice, racial minorities do not receive the most benefit across the board. Actually white females reap more of the benefits of AA. Difficult subject to get into. What i dislike most, is the idea that racial minorities are just up to their ears in financial aid, grade assistance and job and college offers. Just isn't so.
    I totally agree. I've never been privy to any of these mythical advantages afforded minorities. When I applied to college, I was waiting for the wad of cash that people kept saying I was going to get. Never happened. I, and every other black person that I know, have had to finance school the same way as everyone else with work and/or student loans. As a matter of fact, the only person I know of that is getting a free ride is one of my white classmates. Good for her! I would love to see these test criteria sheets that people seem to think are just about everywhere. I've never seen them nor have they ever been applied to me, in school or in my past career.
  4. by   alexillytom
    Quote from carolinapooh
    I know for a fact that the NC Highway Patrol has lower test scores for minorities. I know this because I have seen the score criteria sheet. My ex-fiance's father, who is a line sergeant with the patrol, showed it to me. And it's perfectly legal.

    That is one incidence where I know the separate scores exist. And if it's there, in a state-run agency, it's other places as well.

    I don't think your husband's situation has anything to do with who's qualified; I believe in that case, going on this limited information, that's just a case of he's met someone who doesn't like him. And that is wrong - and that happens to all of us at some point. And that definitely sucks.

    If you say it's there then I believe you. However, in my lifetime, and that of my parents, who I discussed this with, these standards have never been applied to them or me. Ever. Sometimes, I wish it were that easy.

    As for my husband, yes you do have limited information, so you'll just have to take my word for it...or not. I'm not the girl who cried wolf. It doesn't feel very good to have to acknowledge such nasty attitudes in people.
  5. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    I always find it so interesting that people get so worked up about diversity or AA admissions, yet don't blink an eye over legacy, athlete admissions.
    I don't.

    What i dislike most, is the idea that racial minorities are just up to their ears in financial aid, grade assistance and job and college offers.
    When was the last time you heard of any Caucasian-specific scholarships?

    I'm not EVEN thinking that minorities are up to their ear in financial aid of any kind, but i think that any aid based on race, ethniocity, gender, is ridiculous and far from equal.
    Last edit by Marie_LPN, RN on Jan 30, '06
  6. by   alexillytom
    Quote from Marie_LPN
    I don't.



    When was the last time you heard of any Caucasian-specific scholarships?

    I'm not EVEN thinking that minorities are up to their ear in financial aid of any kind, but i think that any aid based on race, ethniocity, gender, is ridiculous and far from equal.
    My assumption is that these scholarships are race specific simply to combat the biases that have historically made the playing field somewhat uneven. Unfortunately, history has shown that you can't trust people to always choose the best qualified candidate as opposed to the one that looks like them. Even when the criteria for measuring is equal, race can tip the scales for or against you. That pertains to jobs, aquiring mortgages, interest rates on car loans, etc. That is something that most people from most cultures/races seem to have in common. They'd usually choose to support who they consider to be their own. Sadly, until that changes, there will not be any equal.
  7. by   Maisie
    This proves that racism hurts everyone. There would be no need for affirmative action had there not been discrimination against racial minorities in the first place. A practise that continues to this day. I ask you, how many blacks, and other groups had to suffer for years. Affirmative action is seen as the only way to receive equality by many groups. This occurred because of the systematic discrimination in this country. Now a price is being paid by many who would never think of discrimination. In the end everyone pays. Keep in mind, affirmative action was not created for minorities. It was created for the people in power who did not want to hire anyone but people who looked like them. Fight the real enemy, the racist who started this whole thing. Get angry with them. Keep racism from continuing so that another generation does not have to live with unfairness. To this day, a black man with a degree has problems finding employment.

    I disagree that less qualified people should be allowed in. If your grades,etc, are not good enough, programs should be started to rectify this. That may need to occur at the high school level if not earlier. It is not helpful to allow people in a program (black, white or other) if they do not qualify. This process is what brought us to this point today.
  8. by   alexillytom
    Quote from Maisie
    This proves that racism hurts everyone. There would be no need for affirmative action had there not been discrimination against racial minorities in the first place. A practise that continues to this day. I ask you, how many blacks, and other groups had to suffer for years. Affirmative action is seen as the only way to receive equality by many groups. This occurred because of the systematic discrimination in this country. Now a price is being paid by many who would never think of discrimination. In the end everyone pays. Keep in mind, affirmative action was not created for minorities. It was created for the people in power who did not want to hire anyone but people who looked like them. Fight the real enemy, the racist who started this whole thing. Get angry with them. Keep racism from continuing so that another generation does not have to live with unfairness. To this day, a black man with a degree has problems finding employment.

    I disagree that less qualified people should be allowed in. If your grades,etc, are not good enough, programs should be started to rectify this. That may need to occur at the high school level if not earlier. It is not helpful to allow people in a program (black, white or other) if they do not qualify. This process is what brought us to this point today.
    You are right. However, I'm still skeptical about all of these lowered standards for minorities. I'm a minority and I've never encountered such a thing. If anything, it always seemed like I had to be 3 times better and 10 times faster than my caucasion counterparts. Maybe I'm naive, but I'm just not convinced it's as widespread as people are reporting.
  9. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from alexillytom
    You are right. However, I'm still skeptical about all of these lowered standards for minorities. I'm a minority and I've never encountered such a thing. If anything, it always seemed like I had to be 3 times better and 10 times faster than my caucasion counterparts. Maybe I'm naive, but I'm just not convinced it's as widespread as people are reporting.
    I think it's area specific. It may not be a problem everywhere, but here, it's gotten beyond ridiculous.
  10. by   carolinapooh
    Quote from alexillytom
    If you say it's there then I believe you. However, in my lifetime, and that of my parents, who I discussed this with, these standards have never been applied to them or me. Ever. Sometimes, I wish it were that easy.

    As for my husband, yes you do have limited information, so you'll just have to take my word for it...or not. I'm not the girl who cried wolf. It doesn't feel very good to have to acknowledge such nasty attitudes in people.

    Excuse me - perhaps I'm misunderstanding you - but what about my post was nasty, and where did I say you cried wolf? Not everything that happens to someone has to do with race, which was what I was saying.

    Why get mean about it?

    Since you have no idea what ethnicity I may be, I'd be careful about your own assumptions here as well.
    Last edit by carolinapooh on Jan 31, '06
  11. by   carolinapooh
    Quote from alexillytom
    My assumption is that these scholarships are race specific simply to combat the biases that have historically made the playing field somewhat uneven.
    Historically, yes.

    Now - I'm not so sure.

    If this country is so racially biased, how do you explain the Kenyan and African doctors I've met that hold high faculty positions at UNC? Why do immigrants literally in some cases DIE to come here? (These are rhetorical questions - please take it as such.)
  12. by   alexillytom
    Quote from carolinapooh
    Excuse me - perhaps I'm misunderstanding you - but what about my post was nasty, and where did I say you cried wolf? Not everything that happens to someone has to do with race, which was what I was saying.

    Why get mean about it?

    Since you have no idea what ethnicity I may be, I'd be careful about your own assumptions here as well.
    Please don't make assumptions about my intent. At no time, was I being nasty. For the life of me, I can't figure out how you jumped to that conclusion. I simply agreed that you have limited information on my husband's situation, so YOU can't make a call about what happened. No, everything does not always have to be about race, but in this instance, it is.
    As I said earlier, it also has to do with age.

    Life is short, it would take too much energy to ever get you to see life through my eyes. Nor will I ever be able to see things from your perspective. I simply know what happens in MY life and I respect that your experiences are different.

    You can't compare my situation to a few exceptions, ie - the African doctors at UNC, to try to validate your stance that discrimination against minorities isn't happening. It happens everyday. So does sexism, ageism, and every other ism out there. It's human nature. These systems were put in place to be checks and balances and black people are not the only ones reaping the somewhat limited benefits.
  13. by   carolinapooh
    Quote from alexillytom
    Please don't make assumptions about my intent. At no time, was I being nasty. For the life of me, I can't figure out how you jumped to that conclusion. I simply agreed that you have limited information on my husband's situation, so YOU can't make a call about what happened. No, everything does not always have to be about race, but in this instance, it is.
    As I said earlier, it also has to do with age.

    Life is short, it would take too much energy to ever get you to see life through my eyes. Nor will I ever be able to see things from your perspective. I simply know what happens in MY life and I respect that your experiences are different.

    You can't compare my situation to a few exceptions, ie - the African doctors at UNC, to try to validate your stance that discrimination against minorities isn't happening. It happens everyday. So does sexism, ageism, and every other ism out there. It's human nature. These systems were put in place to be checks and balances and black people are not the only ones reaping the somewhat limited benefits.

    Of course I can compare - because "exceptions" - your word, not mine - prove that this country is not completely comprised of wanton racists.

    I wouldn't call "isms" a "system" of "checks and balances".

    Have you ever been told that your husband has not been promoted because of his race, or is it an assumption?

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