New Diversity Criteria for Admission...what to make of that?

[luv2yoga]

OK all, I just got a letter from my school last night that states they are instituting a new criteria of "diversity" for admission to all programs. I am applying for ADN in August for the January class. The letter states basically that they are modifying their criteria to focus on more than just the previously stated criteria of grades/pre-requ.s/essay/test scores to include factors to increase the diversity of the school. Please don't start a flame war on this with political opinions, this is what I want to know -- do any of you have any experience such that you can advise me on how this will play out in selecting candidates?

Of course, I'm worried about my specific chances of getting in. I don't have much to offer in terms of diversity...except that I'm older than average. But I'm a married white female and can't cite a disadvantaged background. I have good grades etc. You can see where this is going, right? My school last year had 180 applicants for 100 spots. Lowest GPA admitted was I believe a 3.1. I have a 3.4 right now and am working hard to get A's in the 2 pre-requ.s I lack.

Please share your specific experience with this issue in your school. Thanks, all.

[Lambert5883]

There's no need to be insulting. That was my experience. Why should it be dismissed on that basis?

You really think the company cared about my ego? I find that laughable. If I wasn't going to get the job and wasn't going to work there, why would they care about me at all? Much less my ego? I was history at that point.

The guy had little experience. I had ten years worth. Other people wanted to hire me but were overruled because of AA. And, a year later I was told that they were unhappy with his performance but, of course, they weren't going to anything about it because of AA.

Would they really be concerned about feeding my ego a year later?I really don't care about it anymore, because I ended up finding a better job. But you seem to missing the original point of the post.

If there is a perception that AA is geared more towards blacks, rather than white women, examples like this might explain those perceptions.

I think her point is that it cuts both ways. My nephew, for instance, who's African American, recently graduated from Moorehouse (International Business - he is fluent in speaking and writing Chinese), who upon graduation took a job with a financial company, was recently asked to resign due to "performance issues." Who cares about the documented fact that he has led all associates in his group in new monies-brought-in during his tenure, that he was promoted to head his business unit, and that he has consistently outperformed his peers on every level.

Just to give you a little background on what he has been dealing in his tenure with this company: some associates, including his superior, have verbally stated that he should not be driving a vehicle that is more expensive than theirs; that he should not dress in the manner that he does (suit and tie) because it might intimidate his clients; and that he must be a drug dealer to be able to afford the clothes and vehicle; that he is too proud and cocky; and the word "n*****" has been used in his presence without in regard for his heritage.

My nephew is indeed his father's son, for both have worked hard and have strived in earnest to succeed at what they do. His father is a Yale and Harvard graduate. His mother attended Wellesley. He knows that it takes hard work in life to be successful and he wants to earn his place as a contributing member of our society.

But as some of you might allow an incident, in which you were the victim of AA, to engender a negative perception of a group of people -- in whom you feel are the beneficiaries of such programs -- and stigmatize them as a group, He does not and will not.

[Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN]

But, the assertion that "diversity causes discrimination, instead of preventing it" is somewhat skewed because the goal of acheiving diversity is not to prevent discrimination.

That may not be the goal, but that's certainly what happens.

[carolinapooh, BSN, RN]

Here's a question - and I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, but I really don't care....

I heard on television that some fire department somewhere has just made a public committment to "hire more minorities". That's great...

But has anyone thought that maybe they're not applying? How can you hir someone if they don't apply?

Now I assume the counterarguement here is that they're not applying because it's considered a "white boy" club - and that's fine. But if no qualified minorities apply, how is that anyone's fault? Are they going to recruit more minorities? And if they do, will they lower test scores to get them?

I dont' know about you, but if someone's coming in to get my butt out of my house when it's burning to the ground, I'd like to think they passed the same test everyone else did, because I will sure as heck want them to know what they're doing!

To me, that's the problem. Is lowering test scores fair - to ANYONE? I don't think so.

Just my opinion. Not trying to offend anyone here.

[alexillytom]

Here's a question - and I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, but I really don't care....

I heard on television that some fire department somewhere has just made a public committment to "hire more minorities". That's great...

But has anyone thought that maybe they're not applying? How can you hir someone if they don't apply?

Now I assume the counterarguement here is that they're not applying because it's considered a "white boy" club - and that's fine. But if no qualified minorities apply, how is that anyone's fault? Are they going to recruit more minorities? And if they do, will they lower test scores to get them?

I dont' know about you, but if someone's coming in to get my butt out of my house when it's burning to the ground, I'd like to think they passed the same test everyone else did, because I will sure as heck want them to know what they're doing!

To me, that's the problem. Is lowering test scores fair - to ANYONE? I don't think so.

Just my opinion. Not trying to offend anyone here.

In what instance, that you know of, have test scores been lowered for minorities? Did someone show you proof that was being done or is it an assumption? I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I've never encountered such a thing. I've taken the same exam to get into college and nursing school as everyone else and scored in the 98th percentile. No need to lower those standards for me. My husband took the same exam to get his government job, has an addt'l educational background that none of his coworkers can claim, has numerous comendations and financial awards for a job well done, yet he can't get promoted because a non-minority member is always more "entitled" to the position than he. Funny though, that he is expected to train said non-minority and take on some of their responsibilities because they don't get it. It's amazing how many emails and phone calls he gets because something needs to be done but they don't trust the boss to make sure it happens. He just keeps getting pats on the back and being told that he's next. The new supervisor even came in and told my husband that he didn't understand why he was picked over him, but we did. At some point, the playing field should be level. Sadly, as long as people are in charge of hiring and admittance criteria, there is always going to be some bias involved in the choices. I'm not a huge advocate of Affirmative Action but there should be something in place to offset human prejudice. The idealistic view is to make everyone measure up against the same criteria and be judged by the outcome. I just don't see that happening any time soon, and working, without removing the human factor.

[Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN]

I dont' know about you, but if someone's coming in to get my butt out of my house when it's burning to the ground, I'd like to think they passed the same test everyone else did, because I will sure as heck want them to know what they're doing!

To me, that's the problem. Is lowering test scores fair - to ANYONE? I don't think so.

Just my opinion. Not trying to offend anyone here.

No offense here, i completely agree.

[carolinapooh, BSN, RN]

In what instance, that you know of, have test scores been lowered for minorities? Did someone show you proof that was being done or is it an assumption? I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I've never encountered such a thing. I've taken the same exam to get into college and nursing school as everyone else and scored in the 98th percentile. No need to lower those standards for me. My husband took the same exam to get his government job, has an addt'l educational background that none of his coworkers can claim, has numerous comendations and financial awards for a job well done, yet he can't get promoted because a non-minority member is always more "entitled" to the position than he. Funny though, that he is expected to train said non-minority and take on some of their responsibilities because they don't get it. It's amazing how many emails and phone calls he gets because something needs to be done but they don't trust the boss to make sure it happens. He just keeps getting pats on the back and being told that he's next. The new supervisor even came in and told my husband that he didn't understand why he was picked over him, but we did. At some point, the playing field should be level. Sadly, as long as people are in charge of hiring and admittance criteria, there is always going to be some bias involved in the choices. I'm not a huge advocate of Affirmative Action but there should be something in place to offset human prejudice. The idealistic view is to make everyone measure up against the same criteria and be judged by the outcome. I just don't see that happening any time soon, and working, without removing the human factor.

I know for a fact that the NC Highway Patrol has lower test scores for minorities. I know this because I have seen the score criteria sheet. My ex-fiance's father, who is a line sergeant with the patrol, showed it to me. And it's perfectly legal.

That is one incidence where I know the separate scores exist. And if it's there, in a state-run agency, it's other places as well.

I don't think your husband's situation has anything to do with who's qualified; I believe in that case, going on this limited information, that's just a case of he's met someone who doesn't like him. And that is wrong - and that happens to all of us at some point. And that definitely sucks.

[Plagueis]

While some may claim that diversity means people of different ages, economic background, and from different parts of the country, it does seem that it primarily refers to racial minorities. I do think it is important for colleges, and for students, to be around people different from themselves. However, I have mixed feelings about accepting minorities with lower scores and grades in order to increase "diversity." First is the assumption that blacks always have lower scores than whites, which seems to be the idea about affirmative action in admissions., so they need "extra" help to get in.

Also, many colleges admit student athletes with lower grades, and they have preferences for children of alumni (legacies), politicians, and celebrities. Where is the criticism about merit in those cases? I keep reading here about minorities being given lower standards in jobs based on employment test scores, but what companies actually do this? Do they have a paper that states that whites have to score A, and blacks have to score B (a lower score) in order to be hired? I don't like the idea of lowering standards, but if college admissions are to based on test scores and grades alone, then colleges should stop admitting nationally-ranked athletes with lower grades, and they should stop giving preferences to well-connected students.

[smk1, LPN]

While some may claim that diversity means people of different ages, economic background, and from different parts of the country, it does seem that it primarily refers to racial minorities. I do think it is important for colleges, and for students, to be around people different from themselves. However, I have mixed feelings about accepting minorities with lower scores and grades in order to increase "diversity." First is the assumption that blacks always have lower scores than whites, which seems to be the idea about affirmative action in admissions., so they need "extra" help to get in.

Also, many colleges admit student athletes with lower grades, and they have preferences for children of alumni (legacies), politicians, and celebrities. Where is the criticism about merit in those cases? I keep reading here about minorities being given lower standards in jobs based on employment test scores, but what companies actually do this? Do they have a paper that states that whites have to score A, and blacks have to score B (a lower score) in order to be hired? I don't like the idea of lowering standards, but if college admissions are to based on test scores and grades alone, then colleges should stop admitting nationally-ranked athletes with lower grades, and they should stop giving preferences to well-connected students.

I agree. I always find it so interesting that people get so worked up about diversity or AA admissions, yet don't blink an eye over legacy, athlete admissions. :uhoh21: Also as far as AA is concerned in practice, racial minorities do not receive the most benefit across the board. Actually white females reap more of the benefits of AA. Difficult subject to get into. What i dislike most, is the idea that racial minorities are just up to their ears in financial aid, grade assistance and job and college offers. Just isn't so.

[alexillytom]

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I agree. I always find it so interesting that people get so worked up about diversity or AA admissions, yet don't blink an eye over legacy, athlete admissions. :uhoh21: Also as far as AA is concerned in practice, racial minorities do not receive the most benefit across the board. Actually white females reap more of the benefits of AA. Difficult subject to get into. What i dislike most, is the idea that racial minorities are just up to their ears in financial aid, grade assistance and job and college offers. Just isn't so.

I totally agree. I've never been privy to any of these mythical advantages afforded minorities. When I applied to college, I was waiting for the wad of cash that people kept saying I was going to get. Never happened. I, and every other black person that I know, have had to finance school the same way as everyone else with work and/or student loans. As a matter of fact, the only person I know of that is getting a free ride is one of my white classmates. Good for her! I would love to see these test criteria sheets that people seem to think are just about everywhere. I've never seen them nor have they ever been applied to me, in school or in my past career.

[alexillytom]

I know for a fact that the NC Highway Patrol has lower test scores for minorities. I know this because I have seen the score criteria sheet. My ex-fiance's father, who is a line sergeant with the patrol, showed it to me. And it's perfectly legal.

That is one incidence where I know the separate scores exist. And if it's there, in a state-run agency, it's other places as well.

I don't think your husband's situation has anything to do with who's qualified; I believe in that case, going on this limited information, that's just a case of he's met someone who doesn't like him. And that is wrong - and that happens to all of us at some point. And that definitely sucks.

If you say it's there then I believe you. However, in my lifetime, and that of my parents, who I discussed this with, these standards have never been applied to them or me. Ever. Sometimes, I wish it were that easy.

As for my husband, yes you do have limited information, so you'll just have to take my word for it...or not. I'm not the girl who cried wolf. It doesn't feel very good to have to acknowledge such nasty attitudes in people.

[Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN]

I always find it so interesting that people get so worked up about diversity or AA admissions, yet don't blink an eye over legacy, athlete admissions.

I don't.

What i dislike most, is the idea that racial minorities are just up to their ears in financial aid, grade assistance and job and college offers.

When was the last time you heard of any Caucasian-specific scholarships?

I'm not EVEN thinking that minorities are up to their ear in financial aid of any kind, but i think that any aid based on race, ethniocity, gender, is ridiculous and far from equal.

[alexillytom]

I don't.

When was the last time you heard of any Caucasian-specific scholarships?

I'm not EVEN thinking that minorities are up to their ear in financial aid of any kind, but i think that any aid based on race, ethniocity, gender, is ridiculous and far from equal.

My assumption is that these scholarships are race specific simply to combat the biases that have historically made the playing field somewhat uneven. Unfortunately, history has shown that you can't trust people to always choose the best qualified candidate as opposed to the one that looks like them. Even when the criteria for measuring is equal, race can tip the scales for or against you. That pertains to jobs, aquiring mortgages, interest rates on car loans, etc. That is something that most people from most cultures/races seem to have in common. They'd usually choose to support who they consider to be their own. Sadly, until that changes, there will not be any equal.