Need advice about school issues..

Jules A, MSN · Feb 16, 2007

It doesn't sound very compassionate but the Dean is responsible for her students and she is also running a business so I can understand wanting clarification from your friend's Doctor. It should be simple enough if she can get a note from her Doctor saying that she is physically fit to finish the program. Truthfully it does sound like a serious health condition that might have the potential to interfere with her nursing duties. I'd be very hesitant for either of you to try and bypass the Dean to complain because that scenario just never seems to work out in favor of the student.

I can tell how upset this has you and you are a wonderful friend but please don't let this interfere with your own education. Best of luck to you both, Jules

Scrubz · Feb 16, 2007

Anyone else have any advice or opinions?

Soup Turtle · Feb 16, 2007

The best outcome would be for your friend to get a letter from her doctor. Your anger is not likely to do you or your friend any good. :sniff:

leesespieces · Feb 16, 2007

i agree that it is in your friend's best interest to get a note from her doctor, for her health and education. i understand how badly you both want to succeed in nursing school, and there shouldn't be any reason why you can't. if your friend's condition is uncontrolled and no one knows that she won't pass out again in the future, especially in a clinical situation when other people's lives are in her hands....that is potentially a very dangerous situation and she is working under the faculty's licenses and that is a huge risk. if her health condition poses no risk then she can get a dr's note and stay in school. if not, then it is more important that she take care of herself before continuing on with school. i have no idea what your friend's condition is but it sounds similar to the experience i had with my best friend, though she is not or was not in nursing school. she has svt and kept having dizzy spells and fainting. beta blockers alone didn't reduce her heart rate enough and eventually at age 22 she had an icd placed and now she is fine; no more symptoms. i'm not saying that this is what is happening with your friend, i'm just trying to point out that getting proper treatment is really the best thing she can do. i hope she can do that while remaining in school, if not there are worse things than having to hold off on getting that degree for a little while; though it seems very hard to fathom!!!!

best of luck to you both

god bless :saint:

Daytonite, BSN, RN · Feb 16, 2007

scrubz. . .let me give you a manager's view on this since i have been in a management position and see this from a different point of view than what you are seeing.

first of all, your friend had something medically happen to her while she was engaged in a school activity. she was absolutely correct to report this to the dean. i'm curious as to what prompted her to report this to the dean in the first place? it was the correct thing to do. you should think of your dean as being your manager as well. the dean is responsible for the conduct of every nursing student just as i was responsible for the conduct of every nurse who i managed. once the dean is aware of someone with a medical problem that potentially affects their performance, and ultimately patient care, there is a duty on their part to act upon it.

second, you weren't also on the phone when your friend and the dean spoke were you? so, you couldn't have actually heard what was said. you are only being told second hand information. you have no way of knowing that your friend is telling you the true facts of the conversation she had with the dean. in addition, your friend is inserting her own emotional response to the conversation. think about what you are learning in school about assessment and the difference between subjective and objective fact. there are two sides to every conversation.

third, it is not uncommon in any workplace that an employee be required to submit a statement of some sort from a physician that indicates they can return to work and if there are any limitations to the kind of work they can or can't do, particularly after an incident where the employee was taken to the er while on the job! in fact, some employers won't let any employee back if they can't perform their job duties at 100%. it is up the choice of the facility, their rules and perhaps the rules of their Liability Insurance carrier as well. think about this, however. the potential of a caregiver passing out while in the act of doing something with a patient could pose a serious safety issue to the patient that could place the school, the facility, the patient and the student in very serious positions of potential physical injury and potential legal liability. as a student you are trying to get successfully navigate your way through nursing school. the dean is trying to deliver that service to you as well as keep the school afloat for other students to come along seeking the same. the dean would be amiss in his/her duty to allow a problem to occur that could potentially end up closing the school down. the dean has bigger fish to fry here.

our dean told her that if she doesn't have a diagnosis or a write-up from her doctor detailing her limitations that she'll be removed from the program under the explanation that "you're too much of a risk," as quoted by the dean, and essentially that you can't be a nurse if you're like this.

i would have been suggesting that your friend needs to be seeing her regular physician for evaluation and that i need a report from him or her as to her ability to perform what is going to be required of her as a student nurse with some assurance that she is not going to be passing out while working with patients since it is probably required by the liability insurance carrier or an agreement the school has with the hospital. i have had nursing employees argue back to me that they didn't feel it was necessary to follow up with their doctors!!! nurses are sometimes the worst patients--honestly! how do you know that your friend wasn't arguing back with the dean? it sounds like the dean might have gotten a short fuse if she did and just laid down the law (i would have) and very bluntly said something like, "if you don't take care of this problem, then you're too much of a risk to the program." it's a great motivator to get people to do the right thing. also! i don't know what your school required in the way of a pre-employment physical exam, but is there a possibility that your friend deliberately withheld information relating to her heart condition during the pre-admission process? some schools might make that grounds for an immediate dismissal based upon omission of crucial information. some places view it in the same vein as lying.

i understand this is your friend, but i would advise that you don't get involved in her problems with the school. be a good friend and urge her to do whatever she needs to do to stay in the school. if she wants to be a nurse bad enough, she'll do what is right. my sense is that there is more going on with this student and her problems with the dean that she is actually revealing to the rest of you. people for various reasons don't always tell people the entire truth of things. there are always two sides to every story. don't let her drag you all down into her pit of defeat if that is where she seems determined to go. misery loves company. are you really willing to sacrifice your own nursing career by spitting in the face of your dean based on the hearsay of this friend that you probably didn't even know 5 years ago? and, may not even continue to have contact with in 5 or 10 years? fact of life: people come and go in our lives. pick your battles carefully. remember that the only behavior you have control over is your own.

so is there anyone she can talk to about this?

her doctor

medsurgnights · Feb 16, 2007

I had to send a similar letter to nursing school and to my first workplace for a heart condition. Everyone was fine with it as long as I am being regularly followed up.

OnTheRoad · Feb 18, 2007

What your friend is going through sounds exactly like what I went through the past 2 semesters as far as medically speaking. I luckily didn't pass out at school, but got sent home by an instructor last semester and am now on atenolol for tachycardia. I have a cool lady for head of department though and she just mentioned treatments for my problem, not kicking me out. there are loads of nurses with health problems and I would see no reason she can't be a nurse simply because she has a problem with tachycardia. I don't know the laws, but I doubt they can just kick her out so long as her doc says she is capable of caring for her patients.

Scrubz · Feb 18, 2007

Just to add this one in there, I'm not alone in my prejudice against our dean. She is a total ***** and harasses the students sometimes. A few of the nursing students from the school have actually thought about transfering and on more than one occasion she's made some students cry.

I thought I'd just add that in there.

Princess74 · Feb 18, 2007

The best thing that you can do is to stay out of this situation, it is not YOUR situation. Nursing school is about jumping through hoops, all of us have problems with someting or someone in our programs. I'm sorry about what happend to your friend. I hope that she see's a doctor and get her problems taken care of.

momx4 · Feb 18, 2007

Your friends health is the first thing she needs to take care of.

Your education,your future is the only thing you should be dealing with. Not saying you shouldnt be a shoulder to cry on but I wouldnt burn any bridges right now. You never know who you will run into in the future.

Jules A, MSN · Feb 18, 2007

The best thing that you can do is to stay out of this situation, it is not YOUR situation. Nursing school is about jumping through hoops, all of us have problems with someting or someone in our programs. I'm sorry about what happend to your friend. I hope that she see's a doctor and get her problems taken care of.

:yeahthat:

I know my first attempt at advice didn't impress you, lol, but FWIW I would guess that most all of us had an instructor, dean or in my case the Program Director that was "a total ***** and harasses the students". Like the others have said you need to worry about you and your education or all your hard work could go down the drain.